First refurbished 767 enters service end of the month [Oct '12]

[Mrmaxwell]

ajw373 I have mentioned a few times about issues with the 763 bins. In simple terms I can put my rollaboard end on into a 737 overhead bin and occupy about 50% of the space above my row. On a 763 the same rollaboard has to go in side taking up 100% of the space above my row.

Yes my issue too. I know it's a first world problem but this thread is about the refurb of the 767 fleet - my personal opinion is that new 'carpet' and some plastic sidewalls along with new velcro'd seat covers does not make a new aircraft. Most important factors for me is a comfy seat and plenty of room to put my stuff as well as the person sitting next to me.

 

[ajw373]

Yes my issue too. I know it's a first world problem but this thread is about the refurb of the 767 fleet - my personal opinion is that new 'carpet' and some plastic sidewalls along with new velcro'd seat covers does not make a new aircraft. Most important factors for me is a comfy seat and plenty of room to put my stuff as well as the person sitting next to me.

They are not trying to make a new aircraft, just extend the life of an aircraft that has served the airline without major issue for 20+ years until such time as new aircraft, which as we know has been seriously delayed by Boeing, to free up newer aircraft to replace the 767's. As I said I am surprised to hear people have issues with the size of the 767's bins, in the 20 years I have been flying I have never encountered this. The only issue I have ever had is with Dash-8's and the upper deck on the 747 (have not fly on an ER so cannot say with them) where the upper and side bins are too small for the larger of the approved bags.

 

[simongr]

It isn't just teh size - it is the shape - lots of fat dividers between sections of the bins.

 

[anat0l]

Yes my issue too. I know it's a first world problem but this thread is about the refurb of the 767 fleet - my personal opinion is that new 'carpet' and some plastic sidewalls along with new velcro'd seat covers does not make a new aircraft. Most important factors for me is a comfy seat and plenty of room to put my stuff as well as the person sitting next to me.

I don't think anyone was trying to insist that the 767 refurb was delivering a new aircraft, or even delivering the equivalent of a new aircraft. It's just a refurb.

It's like saying you're fat today and you're probably going to be fat tomorrow unless you exercise. But at least have a shower and put on a new change of clothes.

No one is expecting a good review of a 767 lacking long haul product on the HNL route. I'm probably just going to be interested if there are any redeeming points (if any). Can't believe people will still pay for it, though suffice to say until HA came onto the scene, for the unseasoned traveller there was subtly no difference in options and hence little competition. And even that said, with HA now operating to Australia, why do I get the feeling that the fire that is meant to be lit under the existing operators isn't as strong as I think, of even there?

That route really needs an A330 with Skybed Mk I minimum.

 

[mannej]

First refurbished 767 enters service end of the month

Not even HA provide a sleeper on that route - so it is an interesting one!

 

[Fruitcake]

If QF had realised in 2005 when they ordered Dreamliners that they were going to be delivered in 2014 (assuming current battery issues set the program back six months), they probably would have refurbed the 767s immediately.

Remember that 787s were supposed to be entering service in 2008, so they probably assumed that the 767s had 4-5 years left at worst.

Many will argue this still reflects poorly on management (because of having so many planks of QF strategy supported by an aircraft for which a somewhat troublesome development was expected) but it would have been seen as crazy at the time to order a full 767 refurb when a lot of them were less than seven years old. Just as now it seems crazy not to have done a full refurb given the aircraft are still in QF service seven years later...

 

[anat0l]

If QF had realised in 2005 when they ordered Dreamliners that they were going to be delivered in 2014 (assuming current battery issues set the program back six months), they probably would have refurbed the 767s immediately.

Remember that 787s were supposed to be entering service in 2008, so they probably assumed that the 767s had 4-5 years left at worst.

Many will argue this still reflects poorly on management (because of having so many planks of QF strategy supported by an aircraft for which a somewhat troublesome development was expected) but it would have been seen as crazy at the time to order a full 767 refurb when a lot of them were less than seven years old. Just as now it seems crazy not to have done a full refurb given the aircraft are still in QF service seven years later...

Yes indeed, some people are superb experts only post factum.

I don't think we'll be seeing many 787s soon - most are going to JQ first and this battery problem has probably delayed Boeing from pumping out those aircraft at breakneck speed.

To be honest, the 767 on SYD/HNL has been a thorn in the side for a very long time. The refurb of the 767 probably would've had less than 1% chance of changing people's minds. (Yes I'm well aware that a few USA based carriers have 767s with long haul standard product - they also operate many 757s on similar routes with two-class, non-long haul product, too *shudder*)

Putting that aside, this thread was about the refurbed 767s in general, and I think at least it's given the old aircraft a bit of a freshen up. It's not quite like outfitting your 1936 Stutz Bearcat with a slick stereo system, but hey.... bottom line is we seem to prefer wide body aircraft over narrow body aircraft, even domestically.

 

[SYDMIA69]

Just came off QF92 from Noumea on a refurbed 767 no IPADs on offer? shame considering the high cost of the flight! At least the main screen movie was a good one.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Just came off QF92 from Noumea on a refurbed 767 no IPADs on offer? shame considering the high cost of the flight! At least the main screen movie was a good one.

Now sitting on QF3 waiting to taxi...no iPads on OGR either. I guess only MEL-SYD warrant the iPads, not a 9hr flight.

 

[bunkeight]

There is a number of logistical reasons for the lack of iPads on HNL flights.

There is currently no facility in place to charge the iPads in HNL. There is also the issue of storage space for the iPad charging carts as that space is used for the second meal service on international flights.

It was indicated that J was to have the DVD units replaced with iPads with preloaded content early this year.

 

[Mal Ware]

Just came off QF92 from Noumea on a refurbed 767 no IPADs on offer? shame considering the high cost of the flight! At least the main screen movie was a good one.

Now sitting on QF3 waiting to taxi...no iPads on OGR either. I guess only MEL-SYD warrant the iPads, not a 9hr flight.

Qantas don't give a rat's a## about their customers under Joyce.

23 year old aircraft refitted with substandard equipment so they can save money, and they call themselves a full service carrier. What a joke.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Qantas don't give a rat's a## about their customers under Joyce.

23 year old aircraft refitted with substandard equipment so they can save money, and they call themselves a full service carrier. What a joke.

Must have missed the memo that said full-service carriers have access to an unlimited supply of capital.

 

[ajw373]

23 year old aircraft refitted with substandard equipment so they can save money, and they call themselves a full service carrier. What a joke.

What do you want them to do, buy new aircraft? Oh yeah they were going to do that to free up other aircraft to replace the 767's, but the manufacturer is a good few years late with deliveries and now has some serious issues to fix. Have you by any chance heard of the 787 and it's woes? So yeah all Joyces fault YET again.

 

[ecg]

Qantas don't give a rat's a## about their customers under Joyce.

23 year old aircraft refitted with substandard equipment so they can save money, and they call themselves a full service carrier. What a joke.

Do you have a problem with them saving money? Um, isn't that what everyone is trying to do - both businesses and consumers?

I have no doubt you'd switch airlines for less than $10 - who's being the hypocrite now??

 

[eastwest101]

Qantas don't give a rat's a## about their customers under Joyce.

23 year old aircraft refitted with substandard equipment so they can save money, and they call themselves a full service carrier. What a joke.

First of all - I always appreciate and enjoy your input to the forum Mal Ware , and although others may not enjoy it - I can see the point that you are making. But I think that not all the fleet issues that QF has are all the fault of Alan Joyce, but I would maybe suggest the blame could also go to all of Qantas' management including Geoff Dixon, plus a bit of blame to Boeing & Airbus, some to the favourable treatment that Jetstar got and a bit of general disorganization.

The whole fleet planning and fleet age thing is a very big debate and is also linked to the B777/A380/B787 debate about the aircraft that QF could/should have had. But for every one of the long list of excuses that are provided for QF not retiring its B767, not having its A330's, having to hang onto their B744s and B734s there is often an equal rebuttal and examples of other airlines that have successfully avoided QF's fleet problems.

It seems like fleet planning has been run as an interesting hobby on the side of the business with only one plan A in place and without any contingencies or risk management in place at all - when in my opinion the people at fleet planning should arguably have the most or equal clout than the bean counters, after all - their decisions will affect the capacity, performance, competetivness, range of routes and are also the major capital expenditure that you spend in order to have a successful airline.

Anyway - I for one welcome the interior refresh of the B767s - they are a great reliable plane that owe QF nothing now, but I still think the refresh or replacement aircraft should have been done ages ago - when QF was profitable.

 

[oz_mark]

Must have missed the memo that said full-service carriers have access to an unlimited supply of capital.

I think the issue is about charging a premium price for a substandard product....

When one pays a premium price, one would ordinarily expect to get a premium product.

 

[ajw373]

I think the issue is about charging a premium price for a substandard product....

When one pays a premium price, one would ordinarily expect to get a premium product.

Who says that Qantas is charging a premium price? Good example is my next trip which is to London Qantas is around $1800 and SQ $2500.

 

[mannej]

Who says that Qantas is charging a premium price? Good example is my next trip which is to London Qantas is around $1800 and SQ $2500.

Specific to that route that do charge a premium.

 

[ajw373]

Specific to that route that do charge a premium.

What route? Honolulu? If so I think you will find that their price is pretty much the same as Jetstar, so again not a premium.

 

[mannej]

What route? Honolulu? If so I think you will find that their price is pretty much the same as Jetstar, so again not a premium.

And the business class fares on that route?