QF to Vancouver

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gwilli1

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I only picked up on this the other day when i saw one of Air Canada's a/c parked in the late afternoon in SYD. I was wondering why it was there knowing there daily departure is around 12noon . Which now begs the question of why don't QF or VA have services direct to YVR ? I have read that Air Canada has approx 34% of the Aust-Canada market , so i assume the other 66% are transiting thru LAX, SFO or even AKL. Approx 250K Aussies travel to Canada per year while around 120K Canadians take the trip Down Under. Surely there has to be an opportunity here for QF or VA
 
Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

I only picked up on this the other day when i saw one of Air Canada's a/c parked in the late afternoon in SYD. I was wondering why it was there knowing there daily departure is around 12noon . Which now begs the question of why don't QF or VA have services direct to YVR ? I have read that Air Canada has approx 34% of the Aust-Canada market , so i assume the other 66% are transiting thru LAX, SFO or even AKL. Approx 250K Aussies travel to Canada per year while around 120K Canadians take the trip Down Under. Surely there has to be an opportunity here for QF or VA

Neither QF or VA are stupid enough to compete with them, in the case of QF they have already tried.
 
Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

They have 66% of the market via Lax. Doesn't seem worth it to try direct - the 744 would not be a cost-effective aircraft, plus they have none to spare currently (ie, another route would need to be cancelled).
 
Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

Before Alan Joyce's customer lock-out, I flew to western Canada on QF via LAX 2 to 3 times a year, in spite of awful connections northwards (usually AC was the best, but usually required a 4 or more hour layover).

I then had a 6 month boycott of QFi and started flying AC direct to YVR, with AC connections. Great move! Thanks Alan! I now TPAC 6 or 7 times yearly and have made the top tier on AC (with *A Gold) as well as WP on QF, so no need for any more international loyalty just for lounge access & priority stuff.

The AC TPAC flight is pretty good; AirNZ lounge in SYD; 777 metal with J lie-flat beds, herringbone configuration; timing good in both directions. MEals and IFE perhaps not quite as good as QFs, but difference to me not material.

So, if QF re-started their service direct to Vancouver, I wouldn't use it (without a decent price differential, which would be unlikely), even without AC status.

1. Bed configuration is better on AC (all Js with aisle access)
2. As YVR isn't my final destination, I always connect onto AC and would prefer to stay with one alliance.

Only downside is that I found that the AC FF program absolutely sucks. But I can change to UA program :-) where the redemptions are cheaper and Award charges lower.
 
Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

Canada is more than just YVR, and for the pax going further than YVR, they'll need to transit somewhere anyway. Neither QF and VA have partners in the Canada to connect to, I think, and I don't believe there's quite enough YVR-only pax to fully load a 744 (or a 77W, for that matter).
 
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Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

I agree that Canada is more than YVR , but if Air Canada can do 10 flights a week im sure there is sufficient pax available ( and growing ) for the route even if it was to be seasonal ( Xmas/Jan & June/July ) , At the moment Air Canada has a monopoly on the route & can charge what they like . Im just one for competition and believe there is an opportunity for someone to look at . Maybe its something ( dare I say it) the " Orange Cancer" might look at down the track with their 787's ( i think it has the range ) , as it is probably most suited to them as a leisure route.

Canada is more than just YVR, and for the pax going further than YVR, they'll need to transit somewhere anyway. Neither QF and VA have partners in the Canada to connect to, I think, and I don't believe there's quite enough YVR-only pax to fully load a 744 (or a 77W, for that matter).
 
Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

I agree that Canada is more than YVR , but if Air Canada can do 10 flights a week im sure there is sufficient pax available ( and growing ) for the route even if it was to be seasonal ( Xmas/Jan & June/July ) , At the moment Air Canada has a monopoly on the route & can charge what they like . Im just one for competition and believe there is an opportunity for someone to look at . Maybe its something ( dare I say it) the " Orange Cancer" might look at down the track with their 787's ( i think it has the range ) , as it is probably most suited to them as a leisure route.

787 definitely has the range. AC has 'flown a kite' that they might depoly 787 on YVR-MEL. Can't see that happening though and not just for the metal issue.
 
Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

That gives me a further idea for a J* push on this route ...either MEL-SYD-YVR or SYD-BNE-YVR... just a thought.

787 definitely has the range. AC has 'flown a kite' that they might depoly 787 on YVR-MEL. Can't see that happening though and not just for the metal issue.
 
Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

787 definitely has the range. AC has 'flown a kite' that they might depoly 787 on YVR-MEL. Can't see that happening though and not just for the metal issue.

In terms of distance, YVR-SYD is 160 miles less than LAX-MEL, so you don't even need the claimed range of a 787 to do the trip - a 744 or an A380 will do just fine.
 
Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

I only picked up on this the other day when i saw one of Air Canada's a/c parked in the late afternoon in SYD. I was wondering why it was there knowing there daily departure is around 12noon . Which now begs the question of why don't QF or VA have services direct to YVR ?

It's a question that one could ask about many a potential QF route. It just seems ridiculous that so many competitors can expand services to and from Australia but QF seems to be in perpetual retreat.

They have 66% of the market via Lax. Doesn't seem worth it to try direct - the 744 would not be a cost-effective aircraft, plus they have none to spare currently (ie, another route would need to be cancelled).

Wouldn't mind seeing figures of how many Australia-Canada passengers go via AKL. Transit via AKL certainly is a lot less painful than via LAX, no visa issues for transiting passengers at AKL, et cetera. The AKL option would also be friendlier for people coming from MEL or BNE since they don't need to transfer in SYD to get the AC flight. Hard to see how else NZ can justify a 5 times weekly 777 service just on domestic traffic alone if no Australian airline can be bothered with Canada.

In terms of distance, YVR-SYD is 160 miles less than LAX-MEL, so you don't even need the claimed range of a 787 to do the trip - a 744 or an A380 will do just fine.

True, but could they regularly fill a 744 or 388 with a financially viable load? A quick spell on wikipedia suggests that an A332 would be a possibility. Personally, I'd be delighted if AC opened up a MEL-YVR service, even if it was a UA840 MEL-SYD-LAX style route. Would keep the others on their toes at the very least, plus give another *A option to the Americas.
 
Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

<snip>

Wouldn't mind seeing figures of how many Australia-Canada passengers go via AKL. Transit via AKL certainly is a lot less painful than via LAX, no visa issues for transiting passengers at AKL, et cetera. The AKL option would also be friendlier for people coming from MEL or BNE since they don't need to transfer in SYD to get the AC flight. Hard to see how else NZ can justify a 5 times weekly 777 service just on domestic traffic alone if no Australian airline can be bothered with Canada.

<snip>.

Yes!

The Air NZ service is especially 'odd' because ANZ and AC are both *A! You would think there would be room for a 1W (=QF) route from some Australian port.
 
Been having a bit of a chat in a thread started by markis10 here http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/travel-news/air-canada-go-10-weekly-42520.html.

Thought I'd bring it over to the QF forum to see what people think - should QF re-start its SYD(or MEL) - YVR service?

Currently AC have a daily SYD/YVR/SYD run throughout the year, and put on a second daily service in December and January; all 777. In addition ANZ have AKL/YVR/AKL 5 times a week 777 service. That's a lot of BIS !

Given both are *A, and given the amount of business (mining, especially) travel between the 2 countries (tend to be QF clients, at least the Aussies), you would think there was room for a 1W (ie QF) service.

Now, since QF had that service, and discontinued it (albeit some time ago), it appears that its not economic (like many of QFi's routes :) )but that shouldn't stop us having a discussion. Maybe its just metal constraint, with the retirement of the 747s.

The main con I and others brought up in the other thread is connections - nothing in 1W across Canada and pretty lousy to the USA on AA. Maybe if Westjet finally join 1W (or codeshare with QF - they are pretty liberal with those, esp 1W carriers) .... !! Also, remember, there are no connections for AC/*A pax when they arrive in Sydney, so its hardly a killer argument the other way.

But a plus for the route would be the congestion on Oz-LAX routes. If QF could shed some of its load to YVR, then have pax on AA or Westjet for connections, there could be a story. QF could also do a MEL-SYD-YVR type scoop, again beating AC for convenience for MEL pax.
 
Back in the good old days QF used to fly to HNL and then swap passengers with Canadian Airlines which had flown in from YVR. Sadly Canadian went broke and was letting the side down in terms of service (soft and hard product). However it was a reasonable way to get to YVR.
 
Hmmm. Mods have apparently merged the 2 threads at post #12. , hence reference to the other thread.
 
In 2000 I remember flying with QF to YYZ we flew from SYD-HNL-YYZ great way to get to Toronto!

Could an A332 do the route non stop? If not I'm sure QF 3 / 4 could be reworked to fly SYD-HNL-YVR-HNL-SYD
 
Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

I'm looking at YVR out of CNS currently, seems best way is CNS/HKG/YVR on CX, excellent aircraft, short hop to HKG of under 7 hours, can stay over if needed, wife can shop there. Can use QFF points too.
 
Re: Air Canada go to 10 weekly flights over Xmas/ New Year

I think QF still consider it every now and then but only in and for peak season.
 
Could an A332 do the route non stop? If not I'm sure QF 3 / 4 could be reworked to fly SYD-HNL-YVR-HNL-SYD

Considering HA effectively do SYD-HNL-SEA-HNL-SYD with an A332 (previously B763) there would be
no problem replicating that (given that there is little difference in distance between YVR & SEA)

(The HA route used to be the same B763 used on all sectors, now they sub the A332 from/to SYD on to LAX or LAS
and continue to use the B763 between HNL & SEA)

It certainly would be great if there was a OW option to YVR
 
Considering HA effectively do SYD-HNL-SEA-HNL-SYD with an A332 (previously B763) there would be
no problem replicating that (given that there is little difference in distance between YVR & SEA)

(The HA route used to be the same B763 used on all sectors, now they sub the A332 from/to SYD on to LAX or LAS
and continue to use the B763 between HNL & SEA)

It certainly would be great if there was a OW option to YVR

Would love to see OW SYD-YVR myself but SYD-xDFW-YVR isn't too bad, would probably be slightly better than going through LAX and with an added bonus of more points and SC too! (Although I tend to look for travel to YYZ, so a transit is required for me anyway)
 
Given AC averaged 165 passengers outbound each flight in October, I cannot see anyone happily joining the carnage, even if they have the planes which we know QF dont have spare. Seems to be a one plane one flight route from the figures averaged across the months:

[TABLE="width: 880"]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Apr-12[/TD]
[TD]Air Canada[/TD]
[TD]Canada[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]5,619[/TD]
[TD]8,100[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]7,370[/TD]
[TD]8,100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]May-12[/TD]
[TD]Air Canada[/TD]
[TD]Canada[/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]6,323[/TD]
[TD]8,368[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]7,997[/TD]
[TD]8,369[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Jun-12[/TD]
[TD]Air Canada[/TD]
[TD]Canada[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]7,136[/TD]
[TD]8,100[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]7,757[/TD]
[TD]8,100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Jul-12[/TD]
[TD]Air Canada[/TD]
[TD]Canada[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]7,381[/TD]
[TD]8,100[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]7,111[/TD]
[TD]8,370[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Aug-12[/TD]
[TD]Air Canada[/TD]
[TD]Canada[/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]6,937[/TD]
[TD]8,370[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]7,961[/TD]
[TD]8,369[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Sep-12[/TD]
[TD]Air Canada[/TD]
[TD]Canada[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]7,701[/TD]
[TD]8,100[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]6,920[/TD]
[TD]8,100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Oct-12[/TD]
[TD]Air Canada[/TD]
[TD]Canada[/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]7,699[/TD]
[TD]8,370[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]5,137[/TD]
[TD]8,370[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]AIRLINE[/TD]
[TD]COUNTRY[/TD]
[TD]FLTS IN[/TD]
[TD]PAX IN[/TD]
[TD]SEATS IN[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]FLTS OUT[/TD]
[TD]PAX OUT[/TD]
[TD]SEATS OUT[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
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