Compulsory use of Full Body Scanners in SYD and MEL

[auskiwiflyer]

Today at Sydney I was selected for one of these full body scans.

Having travelled extensively in USA earlier this year I told the guy I wanted to opt out as is perfectly acceptable there. He told me I couldn't. I have an electrical issue with my heart and I also get enough radiation when flying that I don't want to increase my dose every time I go through Sydney which is a lot. The security contractor guy didn't want to know, so I asked for his supervisor.

The supervisor came and was very polite but told me literally I would need to go through it or not fly. I told him I was happy to be strip searched, but he said it wasn't relevant. He repeatedly used the line - "it's 10,000 times less than the emissions from your mobile phone". The point is - I CHOOSE to be irradiated by my mobile phone, and can minimize my exposure by not using it or using hands free. There is no other alternative for a mobile, unlike these scans, where a pat down is a feasible alternative.

I couldn't believe that I was being forced to do something as invasive as this with no warning or no other option but not to fly. He told me to take the no fly option would also involve AFP for the formalities. I told him I was prepared to sacrifice my flight and to call the AFP over.

Seeing how firmly I was standing my ground the supervisor spoke to someone higher and then they spoke to someone higher still (in Canberra apparently). After about 45 minutes, they agreed to let me through with both a pat down & residue tests.

In the whole 45 minutes I was standing next to the machine, not one other person even tried to opt out. My feeling is that most people didn't understand this was any different than walking through the metal detector.

I am appalled that the govt of Australia can totally remove the civil liberties I thought I had by forcing me to undergo such a procedure.

More people need to stand up to this, like I said in my 45 mins beside the machine, not one other person even raised an eyelid.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Gov said it would be totally opt-out available and would only be if you set off the metal detectors - Sydney Airport trials full-body scanners - YouTube - guess that was a lie.

Also, did you see they have pamphlets telling people how safe the machines are? If you need to create propaganda to tell people it's safe, then it clearly isn't!!!

Unfortunately, it's the airlines who will feel the pain from this as it's frequent flyers who are most aware of the harm these machines cause

 

[BAM1748]

Considering what happened and could happen I understand your view. I don't like my liberties being eroded but also I don't fancy a plane being hi jacked.

What gets me more is the arrogance of airport security staff in Sydney, if someone can do something about that I'll support it.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

My flying days are about to come to an end if these scanners remain mandatory

 

[anat0l]

The article on this for the similar system in Brisbane of recent mentioned that it will be impossible to opt-out this new screening procedure. So it's their way or the highway.

Exceptions can be made on medical grounds. I have no idea how that's meant to be done (do you need advance notice, a special note on your BP, a medical certificate...), but it seems that some contractors haven't been properly trained yet, or are just ignorant.

 

[medhead]

One! These DO NOT use the same type of radiation as you are exposed to when flying. These use millimeter wave radiation for which there is NO proven effect at the low exposes involved. This is te same type of radiation as for a mobile phone again no proven effects at low levels. The comparison is relevant and there is NO health risk.

TWO! It is not te same type of radiation as you are exposed to when flying!!!

Three! These have been introduced on a no opt out policy! This has been well advertised!

Four! Did you tell them of your medical condition?

Five! I fail to see the relevance of your medical condition. Does mobile phone radiation affect it?

Does natural background radiation or cosmic radiation when flying affect it? Does getting an X-ray in a hospital effect it? (NB I'm only posing the last two questions because you mistakenly thought it was the same type of radiation. Otherwise, the question is irrelevant).

BTW pamphlets get created because of absolute ignorance about radiation that exists in the community as evidenced by the OP. The suggestion that information about radiation safety is propaganda is offensive. It's also highly ironic because most people will continue to be sucked in by the absolute BS propaganda of groups like the ACF and Greenpeace to name but 2.

 

[medhead]

Unfortunately, it's the airlines who will feel the pain from this as it's frequent flyers who are most aware of the harm these machines cause

Very true. They cause no harm; contrary to the awareness (claims of harm) being expressed in this thread.

 

[serfty]

Gov said it would be totally opt-out available and would only be if you set off the metal detectors - Sydney Airport trials full-body scanners - YouTube - guess that was a lie.
...

The no opt out facit was noted 21 months ago ...

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....l-news/body-scanners-aus-no-option-29090.html

More recently:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....y-scanners-operational-bne-tonight-45490.html

 

[Hvr]

So are these machines effective in finding what they're meant to be looking for? I.e. do they enhance security screening or just the wallets of the manufacturers?

 

[MelUser]

A relative asked to opt out in USA and was subject to VERY invasive screening. Don't recommend it!

 

[Hvr]

A relative asked to opt out in USA and was subject to VERY invasive screening. Don't recommend it!

When I was in the US I opted out every time and apart from a bit of a wait and attitude from the TSA clerks no real problems.

 

[lovestotravel]

My flying days are about to come to an end if these scanners remain mandatory

Oh and why is that ?

 

[Fantic125]

So are these machines effective in finding what they're meant to be looking for? I.e. do they enhance security screening or just the wallets of the manufacturers?

Going through one in CVG last week the scanner was able to show the operator that the waistband of my jeans had an embossed logo across the back. The security guy then physically checked to make sure there was nothing within the embossed area.

 

[medhead]

So are these machines effective in finding what they're meant to be looking for? I.e. do they enhance security screening or just the wallets of the manufacturers?

Too hard to get info on such matters. Words like can't give out operational information, and might compromise the use get used when asking such questions.

 

[anat0l]

The thing that annoys me about this new process is that you need to remove ALL items from your pockets etc., not just metallics.

 

[lovestotravel]

The thing that annoys me about this new process is that you need to remove ALL items from your pockets etc., not just metallics.

Same as in the USA, everythign out, wallet, passport, tickets etc

Not a fan of my wallet being left in the hands of some low paid TSA "officials"

Then they usually go through my wallet as well, usually get a nice look when they see about $5k in cash there....

 

[Archphoto]

I also don't like having my wallet in the open, which is why I stuff it in my carry on before screening.

Security staff at BKK requested me to put my wallet and phone into my bag, for safety one time and now it's automatic. Doesn't take long, and I don't need the wallet or the phone for the time it takes to get through - have enough problems with the once-a-year flyers who take forever to do the simplest of tasks holding up the queue.

 

[medhead]

I try to always empty my pockets into carry luggage before going to screening.

 

[auskiwiflyer]

One! These DO NOT use the same type of radiation as you are exposed to when flying.

yes I am well aware of that

These use millimeter wave radiation for which there is NO proven effect at the low exposes involved.

Exactly. No PROVEN effect. PROVEN being the operative word here. Regardless, I don't want to add to my already high exposure through mobile and wifi usage Why should I when a pat down is sufficient! This is the main point here - why not allow a pat down for those that are uncomfortable? My observing for 45 mins shows there would be very low uptake of pat downs - thus no additional resources needed that are not there. The other point to be made here is that I CAN opt out of Mobile usage or Wifi usage if I am worried about those, I am being denied the right to opt out!

TWO! It is not the same type of radiation as you are exposed to when flying!!!

Yes I know this also. I only mentioned it as it adds to the whole "radiation pool" if you like you are exposed to when flying. You can't avoid the ionizing radition you are exposed to when flying, but you can (in USA) avoid the radiation exposue of these machines with a pat down in the USA and should be able to in AU as well.

Five! I fail to see the relevance of your medical condition. Does mobile phone radiation affect it?

only that it is electrical based and they say people with pacemakers (which some have fitted for arrhythmias like mine) are able to be exempted, so that is acknowledgement (or at least admission of not being sure) as far as I am concerned that the devices and cause electrical interferences at super low ampages which is what we are talking about in cardiac systems.

 

[medhead]

yes I am well aware of that

Then why even mention ionising radiation. That a rhetorical question, I see you justification below.

Yes I know this also. I only mentioned it as it adds to the whole "radiation pool" if you like you are exposed to when flying. You can't avoid the ionizing radition you are exposed to when flying, but you can (in USA) avoid the radiation exposue of these machines with a pat down in the USA and should be able to in AU as well.

You cannot "pool" ionising and non-ionising radiation. Just cannot be done. So sorry it does not add to your pool of exposure.

As for the US they mostly use whole body scanners that involving ionising radiation. What they do is not comparable with Australia.

Exactly. No PROVEN effect. PROVEN being the operative word here. Regardless, I don't want to add to my already high exposure through mobile and wifi usage Why should I when a pat down is sufficient! This is the main point here - why not allow a pat down for those that are uncomfortable? My observing for 45 mins shows there would be very low uptake of pat downs - thus no additional resources needed that are not there. The other point to be made here is that I CAN opt out of Mobile usage or Wifi usage if I am worried about those, I am being denied the right to opt out!

Ok, no observed effect, no known effect. Until recently classified as not harmful, as all. Recently reclassified to 'we're not sure but we'll give it a maybe rating just in case'. The same rating given to talcum powder, for example.

Given the lack of an opt out your observations of pat down take up don't really tell us much. I also note that while you can stop using a mobile phone you cannot opt out of the mobile network, since it is all pervasive. Your exposure to that everyday would be greater than one scan.

only that it is electrical based and they say people with pacemakers (which some have fitted for arrhythmias like mine) are able to be exempted, so that is acknowledgement (or at least admission of not being sure) as far as I am concerned that the devices and cause electrical interferences at super low ampages which is what we are talking about in cardiac systems.

I notice you didn't answer my question about whether you raised the medical side of this and the exemption.