Denied seat recline on long haul

[whatmeworry]

I wonder how long before Ryanair and the Deathstar started charging pax to recline their seats?

 

[atreides]

I can not believe this is such a hot topic.

There is a recline function and I expect the person in front of me to recline at some point and I will recline also at some point. I don't expect the person in front to ask and I don't have eyes in the back of my head to see what's happening behind me. Although I do usually do the small partial reclines instead of one sudden one.

i didn't realise people get so worked up about it. It is just a part of flying. Although an experience I had years ago should have alerted me to the fact that reclining can be an issue. (Which is why I now use the slow recline method)

On an overnight flight a long time ago I had my daughter, about 10 at the time with her head asleep on my lap, I went to recline and it didn't go back, I thought it needed a nudge so I pushed back harder and the man behind me yelled at me for being an idiot and that as he was over 6 feet tall did I not realise he was deliberately preventing me from reclining, then he swore at me again. I pulled the blanket over my head and cried, later when I got a grip I made a point of biding my time and reclining all the way. Sorry not my problem he was tall and flying in Y on a low cost carrier at that. Of course the fact that he was incredibly rude to me made me not give a rats.

But seriously I had no clue there even was an "etiquette" and that I am suppose to check the height of the passenger travelling behind me or if they are intending to eat/use a laptop or check if they prefer me not to recline because it annoys them.

Nah bugger it while there is a recline option I will use it and expect everyone else to as well especially on an overnight or long haul flight.

Once, a person I was sitting next to was verbally abused for reclining their seat, so much so that I suspect the complainant was drunk. My neighbour pressed the call button and the FA offered the complainant another seat towards the rear of the aircraft. Which he refused.

The gent next to me was then asked to move seats. Lucky for him they moved him to J instead

I don't consider myself abnormally tall at 185cm and consider reclining outside of mealtime fair game. As much as this may be unfair for tall people, if legroom is a priority book J, an exit row, or pick a flight with a low loading.

 

[DC3]

Airline Passengers Fight Over Reclining Seat:

Airline Passengers Fight Over Reclining Seat - YouTube

Airline Passenger Courtesy Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qC7mHyNOO8&feature=endscreen&NR=1

 

[robd]

I can not believe this is such a hot topic.

There is a recline function and I expect the person in front of me to recline at some point and I will recline also at some point. I don't expect the person in front to ask and I don't have eyes in the back of my head to see what's happening behind me. Although I do usually do the small partial reclines instead of one sudden one.

i didn't realise people get so worked up about it. It is just a part of flying. Although an experience I had years ago should have alerted me to the fact that reclining can be an issue. (Which is why I now use the slow recline method)

On an overnight flight a long time ago I had my daughter, about 10 at the time with her head asleep on my lap, I went to recline and it didn't go back, I thought it needed a nudge so I pushed back harder and the man behind me yelled at me for being an idiot and that as he was over 6 feet tall did I not realise he was deliberately preventing me from reclining, then he swore at me again. I pulled the blanket over my head and cried, later when I got a grip I made a point of biding my time and reclining all the way. Sorry not my problem he was tall and flying in Y on a low cost carrier at that. Of course the fact that he was incredibly rude to me made me not give a rats.

But seriously I had no clue there even was an "etiquette" and that I am suppose to check the height of the passenger travelling behind me or if they are intending to eat/use a laptop or check if they prefer me not to recline because it annoys them.

Nah bugger it while there is a recline option I will use it and expect everyone else to as well especially on an overnight or long haul flight.

Well said.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

after reading pippy's post it makes me more convinced that the anti-seat reclining issue is about loss of control and self-esteem (the 'I feel bullied' argument).

Let's look at the arguments:

Most reference are to the person - not the actual recline. We hear 'the person slammed their seat back', 'the person didn't look before they reclined', 'the person was hogging the arm-rest and also reclined'.

There is a clear attempt to make the person, rather than the recline, an issue.

Then the anti-recliners try to reinforce their argument (almost invariably) by showing how good they are, with comments like 'I don't recline' and 'I wouldn't recline because I don't think it is polite'.

The latter is trying to show that this person is really entirely reasonable, rather than them actually having a self-esteem problem.

Self-esteem and 'trying to make themselves equally in control' is then reinforced by actions they feel they need to take to reassert their equality 'I will yank the person in front's seat' (if they try to recline), or 'I will jam my knees in their space to stop them doing it'. (Basically saying i need to show this person i am their equal and I will not be bullied.)

It's all about control... probably exacerbated by being in an aircraft where the anti-recliner already feels out of control because they are told where to sit, when to eat, who they have to sit next to, when close the window shades, and because they have to leave control of the plane to the pilot.

Funny how for the recliner there is no element of control. They are just doing what makes them comfortable. No bullying intent at all. Normal people have no idea of this this because they are well adjusted and really don't care if the person in front reclines because hey, they can recline too. They don't feel so insecure as to feel threatened. And normal people ain't so dumb as to leave a full laptop open knowing the person in front could recline at any time. They do it deliberately so as to attract attention and make them selves out to be a legitimate victim (which they need to because otherwise they really don't have a case at all).

 

[blackcat20]

As for the knees-in-the-back-of-the-chair-to-prevent-recline - I'm wise to that. As soon as you move your knees it's full recline from me in that split second.

It's not always deliberate; on quite a few flights I've found that my knees wedge into the back of the seat in front without any effort on my part. I may not be super tall, but I have long legs..

And usually end up having to sit like this:

View attachment 11450

Which means the person in front will feel like I'm trying to stop their recline, but its not deliberate.

Seriously though, the recline is there to be used on long-haul flights. I want to sleep, the people in front and behind want to sleep. Recline makes it a little easier. I always make sure I check behind before I recline gently so that there are no accidents (I've worn a drink due to a rapid recliner on a 2 hour domestic flight). And if I get the opportunity, I snag an exit row so my knees don't cause problems for me or the person in front.

 

[Mal Ware]

after reading pippy's post it makes me more convinced that the anti-seat reclining issue is about loss of control and self-esteem (the 'I feel bullied' argument).

Let's look at the arguments:

Most reference are to the person - not the actual recline. We hear 'the person slammed their seat back', 'the person didn't look before they reclined', 'the person was hogging the arm-rest and also reclined'.

There is a clear attempt to make the person, rather than the recline, an issue.

Then the anti-recliners try to reinforce their argument (almost invariably) by showing how good they are, with comments like 'I don't recline' and 'I wouldn't recline because I don't think it is polite'.

The latter is trying to show that this person is really entirely reasonable, rather than them actually having a self-esteem problem.

Self-esteem and 'trying to make themselves equally in control' is then reinforced by actions they feel they need to take to reassert their equality 'I will yank the person in front's seat' (if they try to recline), or 'I will jam my knees in their space to stop them doing it'. (Basically saying i need to show this person i am their equal and I will not be bullied.)

It's all about control... probably exacerbated by being in an aircraft where the anti-recliner already feels out of control because they are told where to sit, when to eat, who they have to sit next to, when close the window shades, and because they have to leave control of the plane to the pilot.

Funny how for the recliner there is no element of control. They are just doing what makes them comfortable. No bullying intent at all. Normal people have no idea of this this because they are well adjusted and really don't care if the person in front reclines because hey, they can recline too. They don't feel so insecure as to feel threatened. And normal people ain't so dumb as to leave a full laptop open knowing the person in front could recline at any time. They do it deliberately so as to attract attention and make them selves out to be a legitimate victim (which they need to because otherwise they really don't have a case at all).

What a lot of dribble that was.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What a lot of dribble that was.

I can only go on what an anti seat recliner public ally stated... that she felt victimised and bullied by the person reclining into her. I thought it was rubbish at the time, now I'm not so sure. there is no other explanation for the actions anti recliners take like yanking seats etc etc.

 

[oz_mark]

Sounds like there's something for a university project in there

 

[Mal Ware]

I can only go on what an anti seat recliner public ally stated... that she felt victimised and bullied by the person reclining into her. I thought it was rubbish at the time, now I'm not so sure. there is no other explanation for the actions anti recliners take like yanking seats etc etc.

You mean apart from having their knees crushed and the movement restricted yeah, there probably isn't.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

You mean apart from having their knees crushed and the movement restricted yeah, there probably isn't.

Why should someone else have to be uncomfortable by not being able to recline because the person behind them is abnormally large/tall?

That person should pay for an extra leg room seat if they can't cope.

 

[Moopere]

Why should someone else have to be uncomfortable by not being able to recline because the person behind them is abnormally large/tall?

That person should pay for an extra leg room seat if they can't cope.

Yep to that. Sounds like a conversation those affected would want to have with their airline of choice about the suitability of the on-board facilities.

 

[Mal Ware]

Why should someone else have to be uncomfortable by not being able to recline because the person behind them is abnormally large/tall?

That person should pay for an extra leg room seat if they can't cope.

Do you think 6"2 is abnormally tall?

They should not have to pay for extra leg room to not have their knees squashed, they have already paid for a ticket and therefore should be able to be seated without hindrance from an ignorant person seated in front of them.

 

[Mal Ware]

Yep to that. Sounds like a conversation those affected would want to have with their airline of choice about the suitability of the on-board facilities.

LOL what an arrogant reply. On-board facilities

 

[medhead]

Self-esteem issues? Get a grip!

Let's start with don't need to recline issues. The person who reclines and then sits with their back upright or leaning over their table while reading a book on the table.

As for more comfortable, I challenge anyone who claims reclining is more comfortable.

 

[opusman]

The person who reclines and then sits with their back upright or leaning over their table while reading a book on the table.

Yeah! And what about the people in the middle seat who put their arms on the armrest, and then just leave them there! Without even using them! Talk about selfish.

 

[pippy]

Do you think 6"2 is abnormally tall?

They should not have to pay for extra leg room to not have their knees squashed, they have already paid for a ticket and therefore should be able to be seated without hindrance from an ignorant person seated in front of them.

Would it not also be the case then that the person who wishes to recline has also paid for a ticket and therefore should be able to be seated in a reclined position without hindrance from an ignorant person seated behind them?

 

[medhead]

Yeah! And what about the people in the middle seat who put their arms on the armrest, and then just leave them there! Without even using them! Talk about selfish.

Uh?! That doesn't even make sense. If the arms are on the armrest then it is being used. If the back isn't touching the seat at all then there is no clear benefit for the recliner and the need to recline is questionable.

In any case armrests are an entirely separate matter due to the shared nature. My objection isn't using an armrest it is when the armrest seems to extend to my ribcage.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Self-esteem issues? Get a grip!

Let's start with don't need to recline issues. The person who reclines and then sits with their back upright or leaning over their table while reading a book on the table.

As for more comfortable, I challenge anyone who claims reclining is more comfortable.

Since you should mention this... as posted on another bulletin board by a person with the handle chetdogleash:

Finally! Something I know about. There's quite a bit of data on this, actually. The result: even modest reclines (e.g., 10-15 degrees) can dramatically improve comfort. One hypothesis is that the increased perception of "comfort" is due to decreased muscled activity in the back. A 15-20 degree recline can reduce muscle activity (muscles that stabilize the spine) by as much as 50%.

On the self-esteem issue - again - I can only quote what I read. The person posting that comment truly believed she was a victim, and thought the only reason she was being reclined on was because the person in front wanted to assert dominance. The comfort issue never entered that person's mind, only that it was a personal attack.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Do you think 6"2 is abnormally tall?

They should not have to pay for extra leg room to not have their knees squashed, they have already paid for a ticket and therefore should be able to be seated without hindrance from an ignorant person seated in front of them.

at 6'3 I find reclining gives me more flexibility to stretch out my legs (straight) under the seat in front of me. How does that make me ignorant? I would have thought the 6'2 person behind me would also employ the same tactic. If they don't, soes that make them ignorant of how to manage their own comfort?