Kris Flyer: You need lots of miles to fly a little way.

[Frequent Flyer]

Hi,
Thought I would share a letter in Business Traveler Magazine in September. I know Singapore Airlines is looking at changing their frequent flyer program soon - maybe you should wait to check out the changes before you join. It could cost you a lot of free flights if you don't.

From Business Traveler - September 2011:
"I recently had reason to compare SIA's frequent flyer program to comparable airlines flying the same routes as SQ. I feel compelled to share my finding with fellow travelers.

I looked firstly at free upgrades. United Airlines, Lufthansa and Qantas all provide free upgrades in some form to their top tier frequent flyers. Singapore Airlines does not.

Next, I looked at how many flights it takes to earn the same business class seat using reward points.

On SIA, a business class flight from Singapore to Sydney earns 4,890 pts. To redeem that same flight I need 90,000 pts. That is, I need to fly that trip over 18 times, to earn enough points for one redemption flight.
On Qantas, I need to fly only 6 times to earn a full Business-class redemption on the same route.

To redeem a business class flight from Singapore to Munich I need to fly 14 times on SIA, and only 9 times on Lufthansa. To redeem a business class flight from Singapore to San Fransisco I need to fly over 11 times with SIA, but only 7 times on United.

So, at least on these major routes, SIA needs three time more flights the Qantas, and at least 50% more than United or Lufthansa to earn a redemption seat. And remember, on all these extra fully paid business class flights you need to fly on SIA, you will never get an upgrade - never. "

 

[browski]

I'm not sure why you liked this Jane-Doe. It is not true. The story purposely fails to give the whole picture.

 

[burmans]

I'm not sure why you liked this Jane-Doe. It is not true. The story purposely fails to give the whole picture.

So are you going to put her out of her misery and give the whole picture?

 

[browski]

So are you going to put her out of her misery and give the whole picture?

No. A bit of searching on this site should be easy enough.

 

[haydensydney]

Keep in mind also, that when you do redeem, you get hit with a bucketload of fuel surcharges. I'm even considering changing to a different *A FFP in the near future.

 

[Saji]

My understanding is that when you fly on Economy the miles you earn are more or less the same with both QF and SQ..its the status credits/Elite miles etc that are different. However, for redemptions SQ tends to require less miles than QF if you book redemption tickets online with its Saver seats, 15% discounts etc. QF on the other hand seem to have more seats + they also have other redemption options besides just being able to redeem miles for seats.

Upgrades,although both are stingy, SQ is definitely worse than QF in this regard.

Lounge: SQ has a namesake lounge in Singapore ( the famous lounges with no toilets forget shower facilities) for its gold frequent flyers. If you are an SQ frequnet flyer, SIN is your hub and one would like a lounge with showers etc.

Service is where SQ scores high and if you are not a frequent flyer..SQ is fantastic. However, if you are an SQ frequent flyer...you feel let down due to the above.

 

[cove]

The way to succeed with Kris Flyer is by using credit cards to run up points from the banks rather than from flights. We have two accounts so we can move 12 to anywhere SQ and their partners fly.
You then redeem into business class as the deal in economy provides almost no value after allowing for the redemption fees to get the ticket.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

The way to succeed with Kris Flyer is by using credit cards to run up points from the banks rather than from flights.

For many, Amex would be a more successful path than bank issued cards.

 

[cove]

Yes most of us use both for Kris miles.We use two Westpac Amex, a Velocity Amex and then a Citibank Visa.Velocity Amex can now put points to Kris and that is a new feature that started this month. I received an update on this today from Amex account manager.

 

[dajop]

On SIA, a business class flight from Singapore to Sydney earns 4,890 pts. To redeem that same flight I need 90,000 pts. That is, I need to fly that trip over 18 times, to earn enough points for one redemption flight.
On Qantas, I need to fly only 6 times to earn a full Business-class redemption on the same route.

Whilst SQ is far from the best FF program out their (from a flying perspective, pretty good from a credit card earn perspective), starting from scratch (ie moving up the status tier), both SQ and QF require 8 one ways in J to accumulate enough points for a one way in J on SYD-SIN, but limited to only 2 of SQ's 4 services (although this apparently is changing, with some reports of Savers coming through on the other 2 services). QF has better tier bonuses, but requires more points. SQ has online discount and waitlisting, and on their non A380 aircraft better availability of award seats in the J cabins (at least on the MEL route they do have).

But the more people that avoid Krisflyer the better, so I'm going to recommend everyone avoids Krisflyer and stick to QFF. Less competition for seats the better.

Whatever the case, one just can't look at simple comparisons like this. You have to look at the overall equation, do the research here on AFF and other sites, and work out what fits best.

 

[Foreigner]

But the more people that avoid Krisflyer the better, so I'm going to recommend everyone avoids Krisflyer and stick to QFF. Less competition for seats the better.

.

I'm with you on this.

 

[cove]

We booked 2 seats in J PER-SIN-LAX for 114,750 each using Saver to Singapore and Standard for Los Angeles. There were QF Any Seats for 7 figures to go to Los Angeles so it was another easy pick.

 

[pauly7]

I'm with you on this.

I'd agree but SQ need to get less stingy on their J saver award avail. And less tyrant on ensuring new aircraft have none.

Really hope the changes to the program fix this up!

 

[cove]

SQ are getting what they want on their older planes and I really like the 777 and A340. Saver is great but I have to go on particular dates so I use Standard points without flinching.

 

[skywalkerLAX]

SQ C and especially F Saver Awards still seem a good deal to me. Especially now that the 747 is back on the MEL Route and it's actually possible to book First Class on those. Rumor has it in 2012 they will open 77W as well!

KrisFlyer might be a good home for credt card miles/points. Especially those of the 80k Amex Promotion!

 

[JohnK]

And this is where sites like AFF are great for the frequent travellers.

I do not really care how many flights it costs to get a business class award on Kris Flyer or Lufthansa Miles and More as I am not going to credit my flights to these programs.

What I do care though is that I can use my Amex points and transfer to Kris Flyer and for ~46,750 MR points + taxes and surcharges I can go to BKK in economy or ~80,750 MR points + taxes and surcharges I can go to ATH in economy.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Add to that SIN-based credit cards can run up to 2 KF miles per $1SGD spent (roughly 2.6 KF miles per $1AUD). Personally, I find my KF miles account build up points at the same rate as my QFF account, despite the fact that I hardly ever fly on *A airlines.

 

[Jane-Doe]

I'm not sure why you liked this Jane-Doe. It is not true. The story purposely fails to give the whole picture.

I like the topic. Any discussion about how points stack up is very useful. Fees and availability can skew the results though.

[My reply is a bit late...the forum doesn't send notifications of a response to a like]

 

[moa999]

Having just done my first redemption (and first longhaul premium flight on SQ)
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....tos/china-back-all-three-alliances-34713.html

I thought the Saver was very good value particularly when also a sloping QF seat (until the A380 comes online)

From rough memory
SQ J Saver - SYD-SIN-HKG - 38,250 SQ pts online + $280 (1:1 with Amex - and I had 7k expiring)
QF J Award - SYD-HKG - 60,000 QF pts + $240 (1:1 with Amex)
Virgin Atlantic - Direct at 1:1 also was under 45k when they had the 20% bonus on.

 

[777]

Yes most of us use both for Kris miles.We use two Westpac Amex, a Velocity Amex and then a Citibank Visa.Velocity Amex can now put points to Kris and that is a new feature that started this month. I received an update on this today from Amex account manager.

Can you explain how this works Cove? Is this direct to Kris or only via Velocity?