Kris Flyer: You need lots of miles to fly a little way.

[wxxnxs]

I think we would all be most interested to hear what ways you have that are better value than redeeming Saver J's or *A Js via SQ.

Also how do you earn your points? Ceratainly if by mainly flying then many would not put to SQ (though BMI will soon not be an option, which was a favourite of many).

Doesn't SQ charge exaggerate taxes on each ticket? It may be worth for f/J class but certainly not on economy. I remember last year SQ had a sale deal to Aisa from SYD-HKG/PVG, the promo fare only costs $920, however $650 are for taxes which includes $510 fuel tax, I think this is rip off.

 

[cove]

Yes there is no value in redeeming for economy due to the levies and taxes for SQ flights.
SQ flights in J are really worth those taxes and levies for J flights in either Saver or Standard.
The availability is really good for places we go.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Doesn't SQ charge exaggerate taxes on each ticket? It may be worth for f/J class but certainly not on economy. I remember last year SQ had a sale deal to Aisa from SYD-HKG/PVG, the promo fare only costs $920, however $650 are for taxes which includes $510 fuel tax, I think this is rip off.

I don't redeem for Y. If I was going to fly Y, I would most likely buy rather than redeem. If I was going to redeem I would save them for routes where Y is relatively expensive, or where the date makes them less likely to be discounted.

I have redeemed for Y in the past though various programs, but the advent of increased fees means that I avoid doing this now, as the value equation has changed. However even then I would redeem at School Holiday Periods where the cost of Y was jacked up.

The Art of making the most of your points is to use them for flights that would be expensive, and not on flights that you can buy cheaply. You call this a rip-off. I call it an opportunity to seek best value.

Now I don't disagree that I would prefer to not pay the "fuel-fines". However the fees that QFF charge are similar, but they also charge more in points. Yes these fees have climbed.

So I instead seek best value. For me redeeming J Savers or J *A represents excellent value.

Presently I fly return in J to Europe for about $650/700. Rip-off? For me I am more than content. Yes for free would be better, but what I am paying is still a good deal.

I also have my eye on a RTW J Oneworld Award eventually as that also represents good value. For such an redemption a Y award would also be good value fora Y award. But J would obtain more relative value in my eyes.

 

[dajop]

Doesn't SQ charge exaggerate taxes on each ticket? It may be worth for f/J class but certainly not on economy. I remember last year SQ had a sale deal to Aisa from SYD-HKG/PVG, the promo fare only costs $920, however $650 are for taxes which includes $510 fuel tax, I think this is rip off.

This is why many people are keen for f/j class redemptions. If using credit cards, such as AMEX,often better to pay for commercial economy tickets using points than transferring to an airline program.

However, SQ are not the only the guilty ones. You need to use US based frequent flyer programs booking on partners in this part of the world, or use middle eastern carriers, or it seems TG, to avoid fuel surcharges.

Some examples taxes (economy) (sourced from zuji)
SYD-LHR return:SQ $850, CZ: $706, CX: $855, BA/QF: $897, MH:$850, EK:$298 EY: $297, TG: $299.50
MEL-HKG return: SQ: $407, QF: $373, CX: $373, MH: $428 CA: $399, TG: $268

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Other points to perhaps consider in recent years:

* SQ increases Fuel Fines = bad, but QF does likewise!!!

* SQ doubles the transfer rate of points from various CC to SQ = very good

The coughulative result for my circumstances was that KF leapfrogged QFF.

 

[dajop]

Since when did they take the A333 to SYD?

Has been for a little while now, think they started some time during Dec. Replaced the 777-200 service, leaving SYD with 2x A388, 1x77A, 1x333.

 

[MH_fan]

1/ You cannot look or book *A on the SQ website. You need to call to book.


2/ Rip-off? I don't follow you logic. Rip-off compared with what other FF programs that most Australian Residents can move/earn points to? Certainly not QFF...just try to to get a J return to Europe via QFF for the 127,500 150,000 that you can with SQ.


What is best with FF programs is different for each of us and includes many variables such as how you earn points, where you want to fly, how you want to fly, what availability you are happy with etc.

For my circumstances as an Australian Resident booking SQ Saver Js and *a Js represents excellent value.

There are some opportunities to buy points with AA and the like at excellent rates...but so far I have not needed to as I can earn points for redemption at a much lower rate via SQ.

Up to 150000 points is good value for a business class ticket to Europe (even if you have to pay for taxes). The rip-off I see is when they quote 300000 for standard and 1000000 for full redemption tickets. If you can't get tickets on the A380 and the 77W, then that would be a rip-off. Would you not consider it a rip-off if you can't even get a redemption ticket to LHR on SQ? What's up with that??

 

[dajop]

Up to 150000 points is good value for a business class ticket to Europe (even if you have to pay for taxes). The rip-off I see is when they quote 300000 for standard and 1000000 for full redemption tickets. If you can't get tickets on the A380 and the 77W, then that would be a rip-off. Would you not consider it a rip-off if you can't even get a redemption ticket to LHR on SQ? What's up with that??

Put aside the full award, which is much like Qantas AnySeat Awards (other than special ones where a classic award is available) - hardly anyone would use these, so they're hardly worth taking the time to type characters to discuss.

For the 300,000 for a Standard Award, it is 255,000 after online discount. If you a) earn by flying or b) can earn points on MH at a similar ratio, it probably doesn't stack up that well and could be perceived as a ripoff (I realise online it is only 133,000 MH miles to Europe).

But stacked up against QF for credit card points, it is more or less the same number of points AND has MUCH more availability, more destinations and allows stopovers in both directions. If SQ's is a ripoff, QF's classic J award must be an even bigger ripoff.

All FF programs have their nuances. SQ savers will only get you to CPH, AMS, FCO, IST & ATH, sometimes other cities if you are very lucky. MH will only get you to FCO, FRA, IST, CDG, LHR & AMS. QF will only get you to FRA & LHR, before you have to start paying extra for partner airline flights.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Up to 150000 points is good value for a business class ticket to Europe (even if you have to pay for taxes). The rip-off I see is when they quote 300000 for standard and 1000000 for full redemption tickets. If you can't get tickets on the A380 and the 77W, then that would be a rip-off.

* SQ has 3 Tiers. With each tier you get increased availability, but at a higher price. Surely it is better to have this option than not?
I so far have used mainly the Saver Tier. So I don't use it as I regard it as expensive. My main gripe with SQ is that the Saver Rate is not initially available on all flights and plane types (ie A380).

QFF effectively now has similar with their Anytime Awards, but these often price very high, if not ridiculously high.

Yes it would be great to get great seats at anytime at the low cost, but that is not how free enterprise works.



* Others use the mid -tier which is similar to QFF with greatly enhanced availability

Would you not consider it a rip-off if you can't even get a redemption ticket to LHR on SQ?

Last year I booked my daughter MEL-LHR in J at a months notice flyer in July. Trick was to book a *A via SQ on Thai. So not a rip-off for me. IMO it all is how you use the system, and being flexible when required.
This July I am flying three of us to Paris in J on Thais 300ER for 75K each.

If you are happy to redeem at QFF rates, then you can get SQ redemptions to LHR in J for similar.

For me... I would redeem via SQ on *A J. There is good value if you hunt for it.

What's up with that??

I explained in my earlier reply to you.

However redemptions to LHR are available, but not at Saver Rates in J or F. SQ unfortunately do not offer Saver J's on A380 or 300ERs. This is rumoured to be about to change.

Last time I checked you could get Saver Y to LHR.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

All FF programs have their nuances. .

Indeed. The 'art" is to work the system to best suit one-self.


For myself, this means that I am active in three FF programs, and I am a member of several more.

It also means that I "think alliance", and not just "airline" in seeking to maximise my redemptions.

You also have to plug in your own earn and burn ratios.

For many of my trips SQ (including *A) gains the best earn to burn ratio for my circumstances. Given that, if SQ are a " rip-off", then for my circumstances all other FF programs area bigger "rip-off"

However I also have various points accruing to QFF, and so points from those sources will garner me a better earn to burn than SQ.

 

[Foreigner]

It also means that I "think alliance", and not just "airline" in seeking to maximise my redemptions.

Good point. *A instead of SQ, and OW instead of QF, two programs/alliances that I use.

 

[MH_fan]

Thanks for the insight, guys. The QFF is a total rip-off except for the RTW award (especially in J), which I think is exceptional value. I suppose, if you can score a J saver award through SQ through *A, then that's ok.

I mainly redeem flights on Enrich and have never not been able to get any. Oviously, the more advanced you book the tickets, the better the chances. A J award on MH from SYD to LHR is about 130000 points and there are no restrictions on A380 flights. I also like the ability to get companion tickets on Enrich. Just checked with them and I can get a companion F ticket from SYD-LHR (with their new A380 from KUL-LHR) for about 200000! Individual F tickets are about 250000. Mind you, taxes are about $1000!!

 

[lovetravellingoz]

A J award on MH from SYD to LHR is about 130000 points and there are no restrictions on A380 flights.

Which all gets back to individual circumstances.

If you can get FF points to MH at a good rate then that may be best for you.

With my circumstances I cannot get any points to them as all my international flights are redemptions (so no FF points), and my credit cards as an Australian Resident cannot dump to MH at a rate more attractive than to SQ (barring specials).

From Amex to get 130,000 points at a 4/3 transfer rate I would need to transfer 173,333 points.
So while cheaper than Standard at SQ, Saver and *A are cheaper at 127,500 and 150,000 points with less fuel fines.

 

[cove]

Everyone has their favourites and that what helps get repeat business for airlines.
In our case Mrscove does not want to race to try new companies un-necessarily unless there is a big,big difference and she accepts that change is truly needed.
I figure it is way better to have SWMBO on side with the selection than foist Brand X on her and have a trip backfire.
She thinks QF,SQ,BA,AA and AirNZ are fine for long haul and she would probably like to try LH. For the short runs we just go with the best schedule and plane comfort.
Trying to do Kris flights from flight points earned would be a pretty laborious way of pulling redemption flights and the 3 year point expiry could really mess that up.
You really need to do both flights and credit card points for long haul.

 

[Alanslegal]

Most people know Y redemptions aren't great value regardless of which program you are in, so let's compare apples with apples.

Sydney to Singapore, SQ Y vs. QF Y 08 June 2012

SQ; 23,375 miles KF points and $214.78 taxes
QF; 30,000 points and $217.58 taxes

Sydney to Singapore, SQ J vs QF J 08 June 2012

SQ; 38,250 and $231.98
QF; 60,000 and $217.58

I understand that these are at the 'saver' rates but finding a saver award is imo as hard as finding a QF regular classic J award.

Now, let's say we want to go somewhere in South East Asia eg. Langkawi Island (LGK) Malaysia. With SQ, the miles remain the same as their awards are zone based awards. With QF, you'll fly into SIN and make your own way (ie more costs) to get to LGK.

Ok, SQ has some pretty good redemption awards eg. SIN-MLE-SIN where the cash costs is generally quite high. Also some *A awards eg. Australia/Oceania to Australia/Oceania awards eg. SYD-xAKL-PPT return for 25,000 KF miles plus $130 taxes! That's a bargain when cash costs, even on sale prices, is no less than $1,400 return! Now push SYD out to PER to PPT return and that makes it even better value!

There is no "one size fits all" approach to any frequent flyer program and one really needs to look at ways to maximise the value.