Upcoming Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes

[medhead]

I don't mean to be rude or anything here... but are you serious? The cost of flights to gain 5000 points loyalty would be far greater than purchasing 5000 points outright wouldn't it?

I'm seriously thinking about it. If you read my post it is flights for the family not me. (probably wasn't that clear on that point). I currently have 3 NB in the family that each need 245 SC. If can do that in combination with a family trip, then they get their bonus. If I time it right the 245 will be carried over into the new system. 2 of the family have the advantage of age such that lifetime status is a consideration. So yes I am seriously considering it.

As for me I'm also rearranging my flights to get the timing right. As I have already mentioned wrt these changes.

 

[zeiron]

A number of WP's aren't re-assessing based on increased points for PS and SG.

What we are re-assessing on is;

1. No equivalent increase in points for WP's flying in Y or discount Y,
2. The introduction of annual zero reset SC's for loyalty bonus's,
3. Capping of loyalty bonuses.

As well as the previous enhancements - ATA removed and additional bonus (e.g. Partner Gold) now requiring 300 more SC's.

Oh, and a safe flight is always good!

sorry to point out the obvious.....
1. WP earn (cabin/status bonus) appears to be consistent with many other OW alliance partners
2. Affects every FF member, not only WP
3. Ditto.

I get that many WP's are disappointed at the loss of or dilution of certain benefits, but the main issue of contention appears to be the improvement to PS and SG with no change to WP.

I think we should all step back and remember that FF membership is not a god given right. The status and corresponding benefits should be enjoyed for what they are, even if we don't always agree with them. Overall, I cant believe I'm going to say this, but pretty good effort QF!

 

[epsc]

Zeiron, please try not to lecture us on the attitude we should take to our membership of the QF FF program. What should be remembered is that we have been asked by red roo for feedback. If some want to take the approach that they are simply be grateful for what they have, that is a matter for them. It is not for them, however, to foist that approach on the rest of us.

 

[dfcatch]

I think we should all step back and remember that FF membership is not a god given right. The status and corresponding benefits should be enjoyed for what they are, even if we don't always agree with them. Overall, I cant believe I'm going to say this, but pretty good effort QF!

Except that FF's have spent significant amounts of money to receive these "benefits".

They have not just been handed out by surprise from the goodness of Mr Joyce's heart.

It is a two-way business proposition.

The dilution of benefits, the changes to loyalty bonus (which many feel are a further dilution), combined with the legitimate question of "Are WP benefits worth DOUBLE the requirement of SC's compared to SG?" - are legitimate areas of concern for WP's to reassess and re-adjust their "loyalty" to QF in terms of future spend and travel patterns in light of the changes.

Anytime there is a change - from either side of the equation - it will result in a new equalization.

 

[zeiron]

"WP's think OWE is the best for them?" Where did that come from? I did not chase WP status nor did I chase chase earning 3,200 SCs nor did I chase paying the money I did to earn the SCs. My WP happened as a result of my $ spent doing the flying my business required.

If WP's think that the current benefits are not worth double (given twice the SC required, and therefore roughly twice the flying), then they need to decide if OWE is for them. IMO, youd be better off with OWS and *G, but if members wish to put all their eggs in one basket and have WP/OWE, then that is a decision they make.

Maybe a SG would chase WP if they were on say 1,350 SC and they needed 50 more SCs to make WP for the first time. But to chase WP status for the sake of WP, who does that?

I suspect you are right, and if I ever found myself in that boat, id probably take an extra flight to bump up to WP, but that would be at the expense of that flight on another airline. As for chasing WP, it appears to me, that many people do. I have no problem with making the program work for you, and maximising the benefits you get out of it, but it seems (and i could be very wrong!) that lots of members fly unnecessarily, like doing NAN status runs or YUP/KUP runs in the US to reach WP. In fact I just read a post this morning of a just qualified PS, who has less than 2 months before his credits reset to zero, and is asking for advice on the best way to make the push to SG. so im guessing the answer to your question is, lots of people. I personally don't understand it, but by the same token, I don't need to.

Anyway I have voiced my concerts and will this year not go for WP1. Instead the goal is plain old QF WP, AA EXP, SG Gold, SG PPS Club and maybe DJ Gold.

No wingeing, just business.

Can u achieve all of this with the flying you do? and if so, dont you think this is a better outcome for you than sole WP? seems a no brainer to me....but id wait and see what WP1 will give you. Just out of interest, why WP and EXP?

 

[moa999]

As a WP I think the issue is this:

In my mind QF had a few objectives in mind when they made the changes.
1. Encourage PS and SG to be more loyal with the DJ relaunch - hence the increase in status bonuses
2. Encourage those who have made WP to continue crediting to QF - introduction of WP1, and also the new 2400 SC bonus (albeit previous change)
3. Encourage booking of premium fares - higher cabin bonuses

Where the changes have fallen down
1. Many (indeed I suspect most WPs) are in the 1200-3600 SC category - have no chance of WP1 (even if they shifted all flights to oneworld) and the narrowing of the gap between SG and WP may actually encourage them to shift flights away from QF - First Lounge and domestic Business Lounge notwithstanding.
2. Not fully announcing what WP1 is or what the qualification criteria are (dates, just 3600 SC or something else, benefits). From the small snippet given I see it bing more like AA Concierge Key, with maybe some extra priority on the upgrade list

The annualising of the loyalty bonuses - I probably see that as 6 one, half dozen the other. Pluses and minuses - yes there is 'breakage' of the bonus for sub-PS flyers, but frankly do they deserve a 'loyalty bonus'.
The capping I don't understand - again this serves to push your most frequent flyers away.

---

For me personally - my corp contract is QF so I will generally fly them and normally use QF for personal travel as well.

Am still on the LTG treadmill, once over that I may start to reconsider.

 

[samh004]

Just out of interest, why WP and EXP?

Unlimited domestic upgrades in the states, if he does a lot of domestic flying there, I believe. And he’d keep WP for the lounge access he wouldn’t receive as an EXP

 

[zeiron]

. If you are prepared to spend a large amount of cash buying a premium product, you get extra attention and service. If you spend a (possibly large) amount of cash buying a lot of the cheapest product, then you will be looked after but you are not going to be treated like royalty. Them's the breaks.

I think we have a winner!! Could not have articulated this any better, well said AC.

 

[connieguy]

I think we should all step back and remember that FF membership is not a god given right.

Exactly. We, the QF FFs, PAY for what QF gives back to us. The benefits at not a GIFT from QF. QF makes money from their FF program. It is not a charity.

The status and corresponding benefits should be enjoyed for what they are

Yup. Benefits I PAID FOR. Tell me what you think about this.

Yesterday I went to the shop and bought 10 kgs of flour to use in my business. The shop owner said to me, "Thanks so much for all the money you spend with my shop. Here is a voucher for 100 units you can spend in my shop to buy flour or other items to reward your loyalty, to help to reduce your cost of doing business with me and so you will tell all your friends where to come to buy their flour".

At the same time I saw another person buying the same 10 kgs of flour and the shop owner said to him what he said to me except he gave him a voucher for 25 units.

I asked the shop owner why he gave me a voucher for 100 units instead of 25 units? He said to me that was because I came into his shop a lot more than the other customer, bought a lot more flour and he wanted to make sure I would keep coming into his shop, buying his flour and telling all my friends what a good flour business he had and how well he looked after his customers.

On my next 4 visits I did not see the other shopper again.

Today I went into the shop, bought my 10 kgs of flour and received my 100 unit voucher. Likewise the other customer arrived, bought his 10 kg of flour and receiver a voucher for 50 units.

Surprised, I asked the shop owned why the guy who spends 20% of what I spend and comes into his shop 20% of the time I do, just received an increase in the value of his voucher? I asked him why he apparently valued the other customers business more than mine? The shop owner did not explain nor would he increase the value of my voucher to match the additional voucher value he was giving to customers who spent 20% of what I spent with him.

As it appeared he was now taking my business and loyalty for granted, or worst, I then started looking around for another flour supplier. When my business friends saw that I'm now using another brand of flour, they asked me why and I told them the story as I have just told it to you.

 

[zeiron]

Marvelled at the Zeiron episode.

I do try! lol
but in all seriousness... why?

 

[simongr]

Great story gowatson. QFF are in a difficult situation - they need to attract fliers at not too great a cost whilst not disenfranchising other fliers. What i do not understand in all of this is why QFF didnt think WPs wouldnt wonder why they had missed out. It seems a blindingly obvious change to make and I do not understand why they didnt give WPs the same increase that they gave everyone else.

If the reason is hat great new benefits are coming then they should perhaps been more specific about them.

I am just working out a totally random calculation of how many extra points that would have cost them.

Say there are 60K WPs. On average they earn about 200K points a year from flying (I am sure there are massive variations from that number but I am just taking a punt - for example someone flying SYD-LHR-SYD in J 4 times a year as a platinum on QF would earn about 190K points so that could be a good approximation).

Of that 200K about 88K comes from the status bonus so for 60K of those WPs that would be 5.3Billion points...

 

[zeiron]

Zeiron, please try not to lecture us on the attitude we should take to our membership of the QF FF program. What should be remembered is that we have been asked by red roo for feedback. If some want to take the approach that they are simply be grateful for what they have, that is a matter for them. It is not for them, however, to foist that approach on the rest of us.

you may like to consider that it is this attitude which may be causing certain members so much grief. Feedback is always welcome and im sure redroo will be reporting back to the powers that be, but so many comments/posts i have read have been filled with such anger and vitriol and people seem to take the changes so personally. We all need to remember, you attract more bees with honey......

 

[samh004]

you may like to consider that it is this attitude which may be causing certain members so much grief. Feedback is always welcome and im sure redroo will be reporting back to the powers that be, but so many comments/posts i have read have been filled with such anger and vitriol and people seem to take the changes so personally. We all need to remember, you attract more bees with honey......

I would have thought it was your attitude to a thread where members have been encouraged to give feedback, that is causing so much grief, but regardless, you should know that attracting bees with honey is a big no-no. You must never do that, you could infect them with something.

 

[simongr]

Seriously zeiron? I think the only thing QF responds to is rage or abandonment.

http://www.helium.com/items/824294-how-to-attract-bees-to-your-garden

 

[zeiron]

Exactly. We, the QF FFs, PAY for what QF gives back to us. The benefits at not a GIFT from QF. QF makes money from their FF program. It is not a charity.

What you appear to forget is that when you signed up, you accepted the T&C's which clearly stated that 1. membership is ultimately at the sole discretion of QF and 2. the T&C's can change at anytime at the absolute discretion of QF.

They are simply exercising their contractual rights.

as for the changes, here are always 5 sides and many more perspectives to every story and I do understand your predicament, but you need to try and understand the situation from QF's point of view. Currently, you could fly your 4 sectors on QF and the remainder on other airlines (YUP/KUP fares anyone?) and get SG or WP WITH QF. Were you a FF with QF? not in this example. Do you deserve the status with QF?, not IMO, but you have it. I personally think we are lucky that we can earn points, SC and QF Status with other airlines, so its not the end of the world as some members have made it out to be.....

 

[nlagalle]

I get that many WP's are disappointed at the loss of or dilution of certain benefits, but the main issue of contention appears to be the improvement to PS and SG with no change to WP.

I think we should all step back and remember that FF membership is not a god given right. The status and corresponding benefits should be enjoyed for what they are, even if we don't always agree with them. Overall, I cant believe I'm going to say this, but pretty good effort QF!

I think you miss the point.. WP's are annoyed (and rightly so) as two benefits were removed/changed within the last 6 months. No change to Gold, and silver lost priority checkin for domestic.

Now down the track golds have picked up as well as silver, but nothing for WP's. so you can understand they might feel hard done by.

And you're right FF isn't a god given right.. But most of us have spent a lot of time with Bums on seats to get looked after a bit by an airline. It works both ways too. they want to take our $$$ as a given, well we can go elsewhere and many of us are looking at other offering s inc Virgin too.

Personally the biggest kick is the resetting of status credits. I think that is a bad move as it doesn't encourage loyalty. if they want to cap it fine, but let credits roll over so the bronze and silver FF gets a bit of a bonus every now and again..

 

[nlagalle]

What you appear to forget is that when you signed up, you accepted the T&C's which clearly stated that 1. membership is ultimately at the sole discretion of QF and 2. the T&C's can change at anytime at the absolute discretion of QF.

They are simply exercising their contractual rights.

And people can exercise with their feet and fly another carrier.

 

[medhead]

I think we should all step back and remember that FF membership is not a god given right.

Indeed. My QFF membership cost me $82.50 (or maybe a bit less), same for all my family. So no that wasn't god given.

If WP's think that the current benefits are not worth double (given twice the SC required, and therefore roughly twice the flying), then they need to decide if OWE is for them.

Indeed. It would be nice to be allowed to get on with making that decision as well as providing feedback as requested. No need to present the QF perspective here, we can read T&C ourself and QF are big enough to present their perspective without help.

 

[LiamR]

I'm sorry, but to me is just sounds like a lot of selfish WP's. Gold got something extra, so certain people on this forum feel they are entitled to something new aswell.

I'm a Platinum, and yeah, I didn't get something new, but so what? I still get access to the J Lounge, and a better earn/burn rate for points.

 

[connieguy]

What you appear to forget is that when you signed up, you accepted the T&C's which clearly stated that 1. membership is ultimately at the sole discretion of QF and 2. the T&C's can change at anytime at the absolute discretion of QF.

They are simply exercising their contractual rights.

as for the changes, here are always 5 sides and many more perspectives to every story and I do understand your predicament, but you need to try and understand the situation from QF's point of view. Currently, you could fly your 4 sectors on QF and the remainder on other airlines (YUP/KUP fares anyone?) and get SG or WP WITH QF. Were you a FF with QF? not in this example. Do you deserve the status with QF?, not IMO, but you have it. I personally think we are lucky that we can earn points, SC and QF Status with other airlines, so its not the end of the world as some members have made it out to be.....

In YOUR opinion I don't deserve WP status with QF? WTF? I played the game according to QF's rules and earned 3,250 SC last year. QF says YES I did earn WP and earned it by a BIG margin, so who are you to question it?



This year I will also play by their rules and easily retain WP as well as high ranking FF tier status on many other airlines.

Bottom line is QF could have had 2 to 3 times MY dollar spend on QF/JQ metal flights this year. QF changed how they view my WP business and I changed who I will spend MY money with and BUY my benefits from. That OK with you?