QF complain about competition but forget about customer

[JohnK]

I think it's hilarious how people automatically assume if doesn't suit
their specific circumstances it must be wrong...

Personally I am not saying I am right but QF is handing business over to SQ and TG because of their poor scheduling into Asia. If LHR is all QF cares about then this is OK but a lot of people do want to go to Asia and do not want to even contemplate getting there with JQ.

And your PROOF is..........................................................

Take note that milehighclub works for Qantas.

 

[clifford]

Personally I am not saying I am right but QF is handing business over to SQ and TG because of their poor scheduling into Asia. If LHR is all QF cares about then this is OK but a lot of people do want to go to Asia and do not want to even contemplate getting there with JQ.

I'm quite happy to fly MEL-SIN in Star Class on JQ, paying everything out of my own pocket (please, no snide remarks). You may think it's beneath you, but that's your loss, IMHO. Perhaps you like to throw your own money away for the the "prestige", but wait, is it your own money?

And another alternative is EK. This seems to have been dismissed (I can only guess why). I'm EK gold and will take them any time over QF. And you may not have noticed, but they do have a LOT of departures ex Australia.

 

[tuapekastar]

As a general comment (not directed at anyone) on this thread and others like it, there sometimes seems to be an assumption that because decisions QF and other airlines make do not necessarily suit all of us, the people running these airlines must be complete dunderheads.

Well, I strongly suspect they're not.

There are decisons made re flight scheduling, pricing (e.g. fuel surcharges), FF programs and their benefits that I don't like, and that I may even whinge about shock, but overall, the people in charge are making decisions based, in significant part, on confidential business/financial factors you and me aren't going to know anything about (as much as we may speculate).

Whilst many of us (well, many of you, I'm probably not) are frequent and knowledgeable customers of airlines, when it comes to actually running an airline, we are somewhat lacking in experience.

Yes, some CEOs are better than others, but they're not automatically dunces because they disagree with you or me, or make decisions that do not suit our individual wants or needs.

 

[JetLagged]

Yes, some CEOs are better than others, but they're not automatically dunces because they disagree with you or me, or make decisions that do not suit our individual wants or needs.

Well said, tuapekastar - I miht not like Alan Joyce's recent decisions (as representative of the Copany/Board/brand name), and I definitely worry about the trends that Qantas seems to be going down - but, you have to admit that he overseeas a company what is only one of TWO airlines in the world which are making a profit!

 

[TonyHancock]

Well said, tuapekastar - I miht not like Alan Joyce's recent decisions (as representative of the Copany/Board/brand name), and I definitely worry about the trends that Qantas seems to be going down - but, you have to admit that he overseeas a company what is only one of TWO airlines in the world which are making a profit!

I'm not sure Qantas's profitability is the result of good management. Let's face it the demise of Ansett within a couple of days of the WTC bombing left QF in an unassailable position. Whilst the rest of the world's airlines struggled with reduced PAX loads QF's major domestic competitor handed most of its customers to them.

The reality is that we won't really know Alan Joyce's legacy until many years from now.

 

[medhead]

As a general comment (not directed at anyone) on this thread and others like it, there sometimes seems to be an assumption that because decisions QF and other airlines make do not necessarily suit all of us, the people running these airlines must be complete dunderheads.

Well, I strongly suspect they're not.

Yes, some CEOs are better than others, but they're not automatically dunces because they disagree with you or me, or make decisions that do not suit our individual wants or needs.

For something like the scheduling issue raised here, I agree you are most likely correct. With the comments about daytime flights for leisure trips, I wouldn't be surprised if the long term plan isn't to switch these daytime flights to Jetstar, as per JQ7/8. Then keep the morning arriving flights with QF for those business travellers - and pump up the price. I might not like the situation (in reality I haven't even thought about it) but I can understand the reasons and don't think it is stupid.

Whereas compared to removal of anytime access, I think that is just stupid because of the way it pushes customers onto the competition (as evidenced by a number of people on AFF). That's not to say that I think it is stupid to save costs, no I don't buy the line that removal of ATA was about lounge crowding. However, I do think it stupid to not realise that an alternative to reducing costs is to increase income. I think it is stupid to push away customer by removal rather make them pay more for the same benefit. It is more acceptable to me to need to increase income as costs increase.

I also think that the whole change management process with the latest enhancements has been poorly executed. They've made significant reductions when introducing a new system but the benefits of the new system are not readily apparent. So it appears to be all take and no give, IMO a bad look and something that should have been considered in greater detail.

 

[TonyHancock]

I think it is stupid to push away customer by removal rather make them pay more for the same benefit. It is more acceptable to me to need to increase income as costs increase.

I think this is an interesting point. Over the last few years there seems to have been a massive focus on gaining new business at the expense of looking after existing customers.

It just looks to me that QF wants to gain lots of "new" customers for JQ whilst not really doing the things that matter to retain its existing customer base.

Isn't it easier to keep an existing customer and get more out of them? I have gone from not even considering flying anyone other than QF to actively working out how I can do enough to maintain WP with QF and an equivalent with another airline. If others are doing the same it is a slippery slope for QF because the alternative just might do that little bit extra to get 100% of peoples travel.

I accept I will pay a bit more with QF and all I really need is a little care and attention. I need to feel good about spending that bit more. Instead QF introduce enhancements that make my experience worse with them.

 

[JohnK]

I'm quite happy to fly MEL-SIN in Star Class on JQ, paying everything out of my own pocket (please, no snide remarks). You may think it's beneath you, but that's your loss, IMHO. Perhaps you like to throw your own money away for the the "prestige", but wait, is it your own money?

I made a decision back in 2004 when Qantas thrust, forced, JQ onto the world that I would not play their game. I will maintain my stance, stubborness if you like, for as long as possible as I believe I have nothing to gain by flying JQ but a lot to lose.

My time is precious and I do not want to become one of the statistics stranded in the middle of nowhere for 2 days waiting for JQ to send replacement aircraft.

And another alternative is EK. This seems to have been dismissed (I can only guess why). I'm EK gold and will take them any time over QF. And you may not have noticed, but they do have a LOT of departures ex Australia.

You are quite right about EK's scheduling ex-Australia. A couple of things though get in the way for me using them

- Not tied to any alliance
- Not quite ready to fly a middle eastern airline and not sure I ever will be ready. My father's experience with Gulf will never be forgotten.

 

[straitman]

A reminder for those who constantly have issues with Qantas, and everyone else, that one of the best feedback avenues is:

www.qantas.com/yourexperiencewithqantas.

 

[anat0l]

A reminder for those who constantly have issues with Qantas, and everyone else, that one of the best feedback avenues is:

www.qantas.com/yourexperiencewithqantas.

About as useful as cough are to a bull.

Most of the people with issues with QF either hate them (i.e. so feedback is wasted) or know that they aren't prepared to wager their feedback getting any further than the proverbial basketball game with the wastepaper basket being the hoop (i.e. all the rants about letters not being recognised etc.)

Mind you, the same reason why many decide to just be fed up and give up on criticism holds the same for why people don't bother commending good, excellent or exemplary experiences.

 

[straitman]

About as useful as cough are to a bull.

Most of the people with issues with QF either hate them (i.e. so feedback is wasted) or know that they aren't prepared to wager their feedback getting any further than the proverbial basketball game with the wastepaper basket being the hoop (i.e. all the rants about letters not being recognised etc.)

Mind you, the same reason why many decide to just be fed up and give up on criticism holds the same for why people don't bother commending good, excellent or exemplary experiences.

Each time I have used it I have had a phone call within about 48 hours and on the last occasion an interesting discussion about any time access.

She asked for more feedback from people so they had the ammunition to feedback to management.

Like any big company. Provide feedback via the defined channels and there is a slight chance of it being heard. Don't provide it that way or us another route and it most definitely will not be heard.

 

[TonyHancock]

A reminder for those who constantly have issues with Qantas, and everyone else, that one of the best feedback avenues is:

www.qantas.com/yourexperiencewithqantas.

The problem for me is that QF only seem to pay lip service to this. I had occasion to make a complaint recently, and QF were quick to have someone ring me to acknowledge my email......twice in fact. I was left feeling that they had a list to work through to make the obligatory phone call but that was all.

I have heard nothing since.

 

[anat0l]

Each time I have used it I have had a phone call within about 48 hours

...

She asked for more feedback from people so they had the ammunition to feedback to management.

Like any big company. Provide feedback via the defined channels and there is a slight chance of it being heard. Don't provide it that way or us another route and it most definitely will not be heard.

Which is fine in principle.

I too have provided feedback to QF at times, both via the feedback channel and via email, in fact. And, as a WP (and actually even as a NB, although this is years ago now), have received prompt recognition of each feedback piece.

However, I think in a thread like this your comment is a waste of time. Not only are most of us (thankfully) not idiots and know how to provide feedback to a company - even QF for that matter - but the post below just reinforces that it's just not worth telling people about it; in many cases, it's more harm than good as you get viewed as being patronising.

The problem for me is that QF only seem to pay lip service to this. I had occasion to make a complaint recently, and QF were quick to have someone ring me to acknowledge my email......twice in fact. I was left feeling that they had a list to work through to make the obligatory phone call but that was all.

I have heard nothing since.

 

[JohnPhelan]

And what about the recent decision to scrap the detested 2-3-2 J configuration on the new A330 domestic aircraft? QF introduced it, passengers complained strongly, and it was reversed. So it DOES pay to provide feedback or complain (in an appropriate manner).

 

[nlagalle]

Each time I have used it I have had a phone call within about 48 hours and on the last occasion an interesting discussion about any time access.

She asked for more feedback from people so they had the ammunition to feedback to management.

Like any big company. Provide feedback via the defined channels and there is a slight chance of it being heard. Don't provide it that way or us another route and it most definitely will not be heard.

I definately agree with everyone doing this. The QF person I spoke to said the moer complaints they get the better the chance of a change.

 

[nlagalle]

About as useful as cough are to a bull.

Most of the people with issues with QF either hate them (i.e. so feedback is wasted) or know that they aren't prepared to wager their feedback getting any further than the proverbial basketball game with the wastepaper basket being the hoop (i.e. all the rants about letters not being recognised etc.)

No entirely as useless.. the J seats on the A330's is an example of mutiple complaints to lead a change. I was even phoned back to be advised of the decision.

 

[oz_mark]

And what about the recent decision to scrap the detested 2-3-2 J configuration on the new A330 domestic aircraft? QF introduced it, passengers complained strongly, and it was reversed. So it DOES pay to provide feedback or complain (in an appropriate manner).

QF introduced it while they thought they still had a monopoly on the business class market. I think that the reversal was a combination of complaints and DJ announcing their intentions. Take either of those factors away, and I doubt anything would have changed.

 

[NM]

The downside with CX is you don't get the status points earn bonus - I guess depends on how important those points are though

you do get a 100% status bonus if crediting to AA when you have Platinum or Executive Platinum status

 

[dk4]

A reminder for those who constantly have issues with Qantas, and everyone else, that one of the best feedback avenues is:www.qantas.com/yourexperiencewithqantas.

...Like any big company. Provide feedback via the defined channels and there is a slight chance of it being heard. Don't provide it that way or us another route and it most definitely will not be heard.

I would dispute this, one of the best feed back methods, these days, is independent consumer feedback websites, like this one.

The biggest example that I can give you is TripAdvisor, where feedback has become so powerful, that some hotels are forced to tackle it at an industry-wide level.

Sometimes the best way, to not just be heard (and then ignored), but force immediate action from a supplier, is via high ranking forums on the Internet: Some airlines realise that, e.g. look at Virgin on here, or even Air NZ on Flyertalk (where a number of participants, including posters from on here, have helped guide senior management directly & personally, with changing their Tasman product).

 

[pshepvic]

There are a few large organisations that have teams of people just watching Twitter - recently I posted a tweet about the ludicrous charges for valet parking at Sheraton on the Park in Sydney. Within half an hour, they had contacted the duty manager and reversed the charges on my bill, despite me having booked an awards room!

I know Telstra, Qantas and a few others that also have "social media monitoring" teams. Not sure how much they actually do about it, but at least complaining online about Starwood Hotels gets you what you want.