i need your help please [FF program choice QF/SQ/TG]

[jadeqld1123]

:?:i am a member of QFF, Kris flyer and Royal Orchid Plus. i have enough points in QF to fly 1st for both myself & my wife to any destination. Currently i have 70,000 Kris flyer miles & 23,000 Royal Orchid points. We are thinking of accumulating points with one of the other programs i am a member of. Which would be the best one to choose. Also, having not booked any flights using Thai air or sing air. are they as easy to book flights using points as it is with Qantas. also, do the points/mies with krisflyer or thai air expire

regards



jadeqld

 

[anat0l]

Hi jadeqld1123

When I read your thread title I thought you were in a tight spot / sticky situation! Looks like it's an innocuous FFP question.... *whew*


From what I can read, you have miles in three programs: QF, SQ and TG.

First things first: mileage expiry. For QF of course it's no expiry provided there is no continuous period of 18 months with no activity. For SQ and TG, it's three years rolling and strict, i.e. if you earn miles in 2010, you have until (usually the end of) 2013 to redeem those miles, otherwise they expire from your account. And if you earn miles in 2011, you have until 2014 to redeem those miles, and so on. When you redeem an award, the oldest miles are used first.

To answer your main question, if I had to choose between SQ and TG, I'd pick SQ. On first glance the SQ FFP looks more attractive than TG, plus you can usually get a credit card that can build up SQ miles (e.g. dedicated rewards card, or Amex MR can convert to KrisFlyer miles at 1:1 ratio). SQ also often have promotions related to award flights, including a seemingly non-terminating "promotion" of 15% less miles if you book online.

The only things that SQ awards are notorious for are:

• On all aircraft except for 747s and 333s, J and F awards must be redeemed at the Standard and/or Full level, not Saver level. Suites on the 388s can only be redeemed by calling the SQ call centre, and they cost an absolute fortune. Still, mileage levels are comparable with other FFPs even at Standard levels, and doesn't really affect you if you redeem plenty of Y anyway.
• Fuel surcharges are reportedly higher than some other FFPs (except the obvious USA based ones).

Be aware that if you fly on Economy sales fares (i.e. really cheap Economy), some of these fares will only earn points on the operating FFP and not other alliance FFPs. Some may then only earn partial credits rather than full. And some do not earn at all. For example, SQ's "Sweet Deals" fares (Economy sales) book into fare class code N. These do not earn any miles at all on any Star Alliance FFP or even SQ's KrisFlyer.

A better question to ask yourself is who do you fly more often (besides QF). In most (but not all) cases and depending on your flying patterns and objectives (e.g. status, earning and burning miles (and if so, how often would you expect to do this every year)), you're best to join the FFP of the airline you fly the most. There are some exceptions, especially in *A since there are so many programs and airlines, but at the beginning the same question is asked: what are you flying patterns.

I have no experience with booking awards with TG or SQ. Never heard many people around that are with the TG program; more hear people that are on the SQ program. Most people don't appear to have trouble getting award availability on SQ, even in premium classes.

 

[jadeqld1123]

Hi jadeqld1123

When I read your thread title I thought you were in a tight spot / sticky situation! Looks like it's an innocuous FFP question.... *whew*


From what I can read, you have miles in three programs: QF, SQ and TG.

First things first: mileage expiry. For QF of course it's no expiry provided there is no continuous period of 18 months with no activity. For SQ and TG, it's three years rolling and strict, i.e. if you earn miles in 2010, you have until (usually the end of) 2013 to redeem those miles, otherwise they expire from your account. And if you earn miles in 2011, you have until 2014 to redeem those miles, and so on. When you redeem an award, the oldest miles are used first.

To answer your main question, if I had to choose between SQ and TG, I'd pick SQ. On first glance the SQ FFP looks more attractive than TG, plus you can usually get a credit card that can build up SQ miles (e.g. dedicated rewards card, or Amex MR can convert to KrisFlyer miles at 1:1 ratio). SQ also often have promotions related to award flights, including a seemingly non-terminating "promotion" of 15% less miles if you book online.


The only things that SQ awards are notorious for are:

• On all aircraft except for 747s and 333s, J and F awards must be redeemed at the Standard and/or Full level, not Saver level. Suites on the 388s can only be redeemed by calling the SQ call centre, and they cost an absolute fortune. Still, mileage levels are comparable with other FFPs even at Standard levels, and doesn't really affect you if you redeem plenty of Y anyway.
• Fuel surcharges are reportedly higher than some other FFPs (except the obvious USA based ones).

Be aware that if you fly on Economy sales fares (i.e. really cheap Economy), some of these fares will only earn points on the operating FFP and not other alliance FFPs. Some may then only earn partial credits rather than full. And some do not earn at all. For example, SQ's "Sweet Deals" fares (Economy sales) book into fare class code N. These do not earn any miles at all on any Star Alliance FFP or even SQ's KrisFlyer.

A better question to ask yourself is who do you fly more often (besides QF). In most (but not all) cases and depending on your flying patterns and objectives (e.g. status, earning and burning miles (and if so, how often would you expect to do this every year)), you're best to join the FFP of the airline you fly the most. There are some exceptions, especially in *A since there are so many programs and airlines, but at the beginning the same question is asked: what are you flying patterns.

I have no experience with booking awards with TG or SQ. Never heard many people around that are with the TG program; more hear people that are on the SQ program. Most people don't appear to have trouble getting award availability on SQ, even in premium classes.

thank you for your info. i'm not all that formilar with the abbreviations. but i think your advice is to go with Krys Flyer. i accumalate about 100,000- 150,000 points per month and only fly business or first, and only use points. your advice on access to this class of travel would be appreciated. and what do you mean when you say it costs a fortune to ring the SQ centre..regards jadeqld

 

[extracta]

Thai is very easy to book award travel on.

It can all be booked on line. You won't get miles for the flight though.

 

[cove]

SQ Kris is easy to redeem points.
We only use Saver and Standard redemptions.
Call centre costs about 15% but they were really really good in coming up with a solution to get my partner on the same flight in First when the section was full.
We changed my booking by a day no charge so that was fantastic.
Watch the 3 year points expiry and be prepared for the booking fees.
The 747 on saver for First is finishing soon for SIN-LAX as they are retiring that jumbo.

 

[NM]

:?:i am a member of QFF, Kris flyer and Royal Orchid Plus. i have enough points in QF to fly 1st for both myself & my wife to any destination.

While you may have enough QFF points for 2 x F class classic awards, its almost impossible to find 2 x F class award seats available on any specific flight. About the only way is to use Any Seat Awards which cost more points than classic awards.

Some other programs make it easier to redeem multiple premium cabin award seats on the same flight.

 

[cove]

I snagged a First in September this week MEL-LAX and that I took as a FASA for 163k points. My partner will go separately based on lack of availability.

 

[anat0l]

thank you for your info. i'm not all that formilar with the abbreviations. but i think your advice is to go with Krys Flyer. i accumalate about 100,000- 150,000 points per month and only fly business or first, and only use points. your advice on access to this class of travel would be appreciated. and what do you mean when you say it costs a fortune to ring the SQ centre..regards jadeqld

Short answer: yes, go with KrisFlyer is my recommendation, but like cove mentioned, watch the 3 year expiry on your miles.

Long answer:

Sorry about all the abbreviations. For the quick run down for this thread...

QF, SQ, TG: you know these.
FFP: frequent flyer program
Y, J, F: Economy, Business, First
*A: Star Alliance

There's a list of abbreviations somewhere...wish I had a link to the thread handy....gah...

Sorry I didn't write that clearly. It doesn't cost a fortune to book an award by calling the SQ call centre, but what I meant is that if you want to book a Suite award (i.e. the "First" class on the SQ A380), you can't book it online. You need to call the call centre to book it. The number of points required for Suite awards is huge: something like 1 million points for a one-way Sydney-London or something like that, I think. It almost comes down to it not being worth spending that much points anyway, because you're essentially giving up your SQ miles at a rate of 1c per mile, which is very poor value in my opinion.

Note that other First class on SQ, e.g. on the 747 or 777 aircraft, is available at the mileage prices stated in the award charts, available on the SQ website under KrisFlyer. Note that the 747 is the only First class that can be redeemed at the Saver level. 777 First must be redeemed at Standard or Full levels. This explains why 747 F redemptions are rather popular (especially when you subtract 15% if you can book online), but the only routes serviced by a SQ 747 are Singapore-Frankfurt and Singapore-Tokyo-Los Angeles, with the latter service very soon to be converted to an A380, hence removing any F redemptions on that route.

If any of this is confusing about KrisFlyer, I suggest you dig out whatever material SQ gave you as a guide to your membership (e.g. explaining the different mileage levels).

Another thing you should keep in mind (and something that might encourage you to use SQ's FFP instead of TG) is that you can use your miles on KrisFlyer (and Royal Orchid Plus) to redeem for awards on other Star Alliance airlines, e.g. LH, LX, UA, NH etc. However, one thing that is well known across Star Alliance is that SQ - with very few exceptions - blocks redemptions of its J or F seats from any other Star Alliance FFP except its own KrisFlyer. So if you are thinking of flying on award tickets on J or F with SQ in the future, you're best to stick with KrisFlyer as your choice of FFP, otherwise building up points with TG Royal Orchid Plus will almost guarantee that you can never use your Royal Orchid Plus miles to redeem for SQ premium award seats. (Note that LH and NH also block their premium seats in a similar way).

While you may have enough QFF points for 2 x F class classic awards, its almost impossible to find 2 x F class award seats available on any specific flight.

If the OP is a QF Platinum, then a Platinum request attempting to book both seats at the same time might be successful. Otherwise, you're quite correct.

 

[cove]

With SQ KRIS we have used the call centre twice for flight redemptions when both flights were within 5 weeks of travel. Each time we have been very pleased with the outcome and the one to Manchester was a big ask in my opinion by my sons.
They come home on separate flights and that is quite ok for them when they know the plane was heavily booked and they are going in J.
Normally the online bookings are a cinch if they are not last minute.

 

[Alanslegal]

Normally the online bookings are a cinch if they are not last minute.

It isn't that easy so far. When I am searching I can only search for flights on a specific day, rather than flexible dates. Soooo am I doing something wrong?

 

[Egg]

I agree that Krisflyer is the best option here. Apart from excellent availability, you can also use your Krisflyer points to redeem on Thai, and doing that actually requires fewer points than if you used your Royal Orchid points. Eg. flying from Sydney to London return on Thai in Business requires 170,000 Royal Orchid points but only 150,000 Krisflyer points, and from my experience, Thai offers good seat availability to its Star Alliance partners (such as Krisflyer).

It's not so good in reverse because Singapore Airlines only allows other Star Alliance members to redeem its "Saver" Awards, which excludes redemptions in Business class on its A380's and 777-300's.

Having said all that, I guess it depends on how you earn your points. If you earn from flying rather than credit card spending, then it will depend on which airlines you can travel on paid tickets...

Thai has a good program in terms of availability and flexibility for flights on Thai, but there's no good option for earning points on Royal Orchid from credit card spend - the Amex conversion rate is better with Krisflyer than with Thai.

 

[browski]

Also, having not booked any flights using Thai air or sing air. are they as easy to book flights using points as it is with Qantas.
jadeqld

Sorry, I just could not let this pass without comment. I never thought I'd see the QFF meager redemption offerings as "easy".

From left field, for a Star Alliance partner, maybe you should consider Air New Zealand's Air Points?

 

[33rpm]

I think a lot comes down to where you do most of your travel. If you go to the US a lot, why on earth would you want to direct your travel to LAX/SFO via Asia? A lot of my travel is to the US so QFF is IMHO the unequivocally best choice. Whilst it seems to be a popular thing to criticise everything to do with QF, I have generally been happy and I like the quality/conveniences of alliances on OW compared to *A - this all fits in well with perhaps choosing QF over TG/SQ. There are in my opinion a lot more cough airlines on *A compared to OW.

 

[cove]

I must be close to having travelled 100 times to LAX over 33 years so the methods of getting there have varied a lot. Stopping in the Pacific was a necessity until the 747SP arrived and got us the non stop flight out of Sydney.
Being from Perth it really isn't too much of a problem going via SIN as it is a flight that is about 5 hours north of us.
From SYD ,MEL or BNE going backwards to go forwards to LAX costs a couple of hours flying time.
Thankfully that keeps the availability wonderful for me as I am generally moving 2 or even 5 over a day or two. It is just a habit that I go QF first pick then if there is nothing suitable it is SQ no problem.
The score would be QF 94,SQ 5, AIR NZ 1 for me but these numbers don't reflect the number of SQ flights that the family is now booking as right now it would be 50/50 due to the lack of QF availability in points seats in the class we want.
It is wonderful being in 2 alliances.

 

[extracta]

I think a lot comes down to where you do most of your travel. If you go to the US a lot, why on earth would you want to direct your travel to LAX/SFO via Asia?

Because you can get fares at much better rates.

A lot of my travel is to the US so QFF is IMHO the unequivocally best choice. Whilst it seems to be a popular thing to criticise everything to do with QF

I think QANTAS is a great airline. I am a member of the FF program and have more points with QF than with any other airline, but as I have no status with QANTAS I am not yet caught in the FREQUENT FLYER TRAP and am free to use whichever airline I think gives the best deal.

It is not that it is a popular thing to criticise everything to do with QANTAS, it is just that their fares are excessive, and their FF program is not as good as it could be.

 

[browski]

There are in my opinion a lot more cough airlines on *A compared to OW.

There are in fact just a lot more partner airlines on *A.
So, yes they have more cough ones, but undeniably they also have far better ones as well.

 

[anat0l]

There are in fact just a lot more partner airlines on *A.
So, yes they have more cough ones, but undeniably they also have far better ones as well.

There are odd consequences of this:

• It was a good decision by Star Alliance early to not allow cross-access into F lounges (except if you are flying F). The traffic due to highest-tier elites would be unreasonable.
• Travel and especially award travel is concentrated a lot on a core of airlines (e.g. LH group, OZ, NH, SQ...). The rest of the alliance is - in theory - really just giving you options, but plenty of people would not be in a hurry to fly on such airlines.

In general, I like ow better than *A, although that has a lot to do with *A having no presence in Australia (come on DJ, join up!). ow also has, on a %ge of total participants basis, better quality airlines and their RTW product is also better than *A. *A, however, has a distinct advantage in the cross-alliance baggage allowance increase and, to some degree, cross-alliance upgrade awards (offered by some carriers only, and at times only in high buckets).