The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story?

[yohy?!]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Massively disappointing.

I have a reservation on VA HKT-SYD via BNE with the final sector on DJ. My booking reads 'Business' on both sectors. If it's a rogue aircraft on the final leg I'm going to be very angry as I expect Y+.

I'm half inclined to throw the last leg away. If I have to collect my luggage at BNE INTL I could book a QF flight from BNE to SYD, get front row of Y, and Business Lounge access.

Recommend checking your e-ticket for the class of the Domestic flight - I have noticed on the VA booking engine that Business Discount fares state that domestic connections are seated in Economy...

 

[MrJetset]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Recommend checking your e-ticket for the class of the Domestic flight - I have noticed on the VA booking engine that Business Discount fares state that domestic connections are seated in Economy...

Thanks for the heads up. Expedia and CheckMyTrip read 'Business' on the itinerary. Looking at the VA website the fare type has been removed after I added my Velocity number. Also reads that the booking was on Velocity points. Going to call VA now to clarify.

 

[BVT]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Surely a simple phone call after the flight would fix this?

"Hi I booked a PE flight and was given an economy seat. Please can you refund the fare difference? kthxbai"

In theory, it SHOULD work.

This happened to me in March on the only time I have flown DJ in recent times. Booked an paid for PE on four legs; PE achieved on one! All four legs had PE seats. I had boarding cards for PE when I boarded first flight, got the beep and handed a new boarding card for a middle seat!! Some mumbled explanation and told to keep moving.

In the result, I voted with my feet and now fly JQ or QF. It took six months of weekly emails and the occassional telephone call to get a refund.

 

[MrJetset]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Just called VA. 15 min wait then hung up on. Rang again, was on hold for 5 mins as I stated I want to know if Y+ was guaranteed, so she checked with their "sister department" who confirmed that it was. Can't pre-select seats until check in though.

I really don't like the use of the word "or"

Business Deal

Cabin class International Business.
Note: If you book a connecting flight, Business Class may not be available on our partner airlines in which case you will be provided a Premium Economy (where applicable) or Economy Class seat on these services.


How tough is the international to domestic transfer at BNE?

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Just called VA. 15 min wait then hung up on. Rang again, was on hold for 5 mins as I stated I want to know if Y+ was guaranteed, so she checked with their "sister department" who confirmed that it was. Can't pre-select seats until check in though.

I really don't like the use of the word "or"

Business Deal

Cabin class International Business.
Note: If you book a connecting flight, Business Class may not be available on our partner airlines in which case you will be provided a Premium Economy (where applicable) or Economy Class seat on these services.


How tough is the international to domestic transfer at BNE?

Business Class may not be available on our partner airlines in which case you will be provided a Premium Economy (where applicable) or Economy Class seat on these services.

Unless DJ have a crystal ball, they are not in a position to guarantee you won't get a rogue aircraft on that BNE/SYD flight & thus nil IFE or PE.

Looks like "where applicable" might be the "out" clause that gets them out of jail.

 

[MrJetset]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Business Class may not be available on our partner airlines in which case you will be provided a Premium Economy (where applicable) or Economy Class seat on these services.

Unless DJ have a crystal ball, they are not in a position to guarantee you won't get a rogue aircraft on that BNE/SYD flight & thus nil IFE or PE.

Looks like "where applicable" might be the "out" clause that gets them out of jail.

I thought exactly that. A mate who is the DJ industry sales manager, says it will be sorted at check in at HKT, and I can change the time if the aircraft doesn't have Y+.

I would book 2 tix on QF BNE-SYD in Y, however that's a gamble too if the VA sector is running late.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

I thought exactly that. A mate who is the DJ industry sales manager, says it will be sorted at check in at HKT, and I can change the time if the aircraft doesn't have Y+.

I would book 2 tix on QF BNE-SYD in Y, however that's a gamble too if the VA sector is running late.

With all due respect to your mate in Sales he may know whether the BNE/SYD flight has PE but local staff who do the checkin in HKT may not. In some countries if they don't know the answer to a question they will say yes because they think that's what you want to hear & don't like delivering bad news so in short, "yes" might be "no" in this instance.

Is is possible your mate can text you the night before (assuming DJ would know by now whether or not a rogue is operating that flight) & advise. When he says you can change the time of the flight to one that does have PE does he mean only on that day? If no PE on the flight can he allocate you a decent seat the night before.

I'm fairly sure that you normally wouldn't be able to change the date of the BNE/SYD sector as it's not a sector airfare but part of a through fare HKT/SYD with a transit in BNE.

It seems a bit of a waste to shell out extra dollars for travel on QF when you already have a BNE/SYD ticket with DJ. If it was me I would just take the DJ flight anyway but just keep in mind that the PE & IFE is not guaranteed.

The best piece of advice I heard was in the movie Mrs Doubtfire when 'she' said "hope for the best, expect the worst & take whatever comes". I find this useful in a lot of situations but particularly when it comes to travel!

 

[markis10]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Ironically Bretts Jet is a rogue : VH BZG.

 

[JohnK]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

How tough is the international to domestic transfer at BNE?

Not tough at all. It is very simple. Simply take the TBus or the Airtrain. I think it costs $5 to go between terminals.

 

[albatross710]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Thinking about the OP's use of the word fraud concerned me as for me I prefer Section 52, false, misleading deceptive.

Looking at the operating aircraft of a couple DJ sectors I think I am showing the frequency with which these aircraft are not "substitutions" but are a significant part of the network operations. From this post I determine the aircraft without PE.

The aircraft regos start with VUR,VUS,VUT----> VUX and some of these aircraft have been in the fleet since mid last year, reasoning they are not fitted is correct

Now from Flight24.com a selection of services BNE-SYD. Non PE a/c in red.

BNE-SYD
DJ900 was flown on 2010-12-04 by VH-ZHC (E170)
DJ900 was flown on 2010-12-01 by VH-VUA (B738)
DJ900 was flown on 2010-11-30 by VH-VUT (B738)
DJ900 was flown on 2010-11-29 by VH-VUW (B738)
DJ900 was flown on 2010-11-23 by VH-VUK (B738)
DJ900 was flown on 2010-11-22 by VH-VUE (B738)
DJ908 was flown on 2010-12-05 by VH-VUU (B738)
DJ908 was flown on 2010-12-04 by VH-VUA (B738)
DJ908 was flown on 2010-12-03 by VH-VOW (B738)
DJ908 was flown on 2010-11-28 by VH-VUC (B738)
DJ908 was flown on 2010-11-27 by VH-VUR (B738)
DJ908 was flown on 2010-11-25 by VH-VUK (B738)
DJ908 was flown on 2010-11-24 by VH-BZG (B738)
DJ908 was flown on 2010-11-23 by VH-VUL (B738)
DJ912 was flown on 2010-12-05 by VH-VBY (B737)
DJ912 was flown on 2010-12-02 by VH-VOT (B738)
DJ912 was flown on 2010-12-01 by VH-VUC (B738)
DJ912 was flown on 2010-11-30 by VH-VUV (B738)
DJ912 was flown on 2010-11-29 by VH-VUK (B738)
DJ912 was flown on 2010-11-28 by VH-VUR (B738)
DJ912 was flown on 2010-11-25 by VH-VUA (B738)
DJ912 was flown on 2010-11-24 by VH-VUL (B738)
DJ912 was flown on 2010-11-23 by VH-VUT (B738)

From this I think we can see that a person booking has a 70% chance of getting a PE seat...but at the time of purchase are people understanding how this might be stacked against them? They probably will not get a PE aircraft 30% of the time?

Looking at the operations by some of the non-PE aircraft today:

Latest flights by VH-VUR
VOZ1331 seen @ 2010-12-06 08:53 CET on route from HBA to MEL
VOZ1326 seen @ 2010-12-06 07:03 CET on route from MEL to HBA
VOZ1325 seen @ 2010-12-06 04:52 CET on route from HBA to MEL
VOZ1322 seen @ 2010-12-06 02:57 CET on route from MEL to HBA
VOZ314 seen @ 2010-12-06 01:28 CET on route from BNE to MEL

This aircraft made plenty of trips across the strait today. Although I can't look historically I do note that as of now, PE is being sold for all DJ flights MEL-HBA on 7th December. 4 of the 7 sectors today (BNA-MEL 3, MEL-HBA 4) had non-PE aircraft

Latest flights by VH-VUS
VOZ547 seen @ 2010-12-06 12:37 CET on route from SYD to OOL
VOZ978 seen @ 2010-12-06 10:25 CET on route from BNE to SYD
VOZ965 seen @ 2010-12-06 08:37 CET on route from SYD to BNE
VOZ1142 seen @ 2010-12-06 06:04 CET on route from BNK to SYD
VOZ1141 seen @ 2010-12-06 04:03 CET on route from SYD to BNK
VOZ552 seen @ 2010-12-06 01:53 CET on route from PER to SYD

Yes, agree that they have plenty of great business reasons why the aircraft haven't been upgraded. But to be selling PE seats across all of their services tomorrow, knowing that they can only meet 70% of their PE commitments is......misleading.

Those 10 aircraft are each scheduled for another 6 flights tomorrow as they have for the past 365 days with their missing 8 PE seats...that's a lot of p**sed off people that they have collected in the past year.

Maybe the issue is that not that many people are paying to use those seats putting pressure on the business case to implement the J seats.

My 2 cents worth.

 

[Verde]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Thinking about the OP's use of the word fraud concerned me as for me I prefer Section 52, false, misleading deceptive.

Looking at the operating aircraft of a couple DJ sectors I think I am showing the frequency with which these aircraft are not "substitutions" but are a significant part of the network operations. From this post I determine the aircraft without PE.



Now from Flight24.com a selection of services BNE-SYD. Non PE a/c in red.


From this I think we can see that a person booking has a 70% chance of getting a PE seat...but at the time of purchase are people understanding how this might be stacked against them? They probably will not get a PE aircraft 30% of the time?

Looking at the operations by some of the non-PE aircraft today:



This aircraft made plenty of trips across the strait today. Although I can't look historically I do note that as of now, PE is being sold for all DJ flights MEL-HBA on 7th December. 4 of the 7 sectors today (BNA-MEL 3, MEL-HBA 4) had non-PE aircraft




Yes, agree that they have plenty of great business reasons why the aircraft haven't been upgraded. But to be selling PE seats across all of their services tomorrow, knowing that they can only meet 70% of their PE commitments is......misleading.

Those 10 aircraft are each scheduled for another 6 flights tomorrow as they have for the past 365 days with their missing 8 PE seats...that's a lot of p**sed off people that they have collected in the past year.

Maybe the issue is that not that many people are paying to use those seats putting pressure on the business case to implement the J seats.

My 2 cents worth.

Interesting research. It may not be that many people though. I've only flown DJ recently on a few Albury-Sydney legs and there wasn't anyone using the Premium Economy seats in any of those flights, so if most flights have no passengers in them it wouldn't be many (justifiably) upset people. That said, with those kinds of stats they should be doing a lot better - perhaps scheduling the non-PE planes to certain routes and not selling PE tickets on those routes might be fairly simple (keep them on the short runs like to Albury and runs where virtually nobody ever flies PE), it wouldn't exactly be rocket science.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Interesting research. It may not be that many people though. I've only flown DJ recently on a few Albury-Sydney legs and there wasn't anyone using the Premium Economy seats in any of those flights, so if most flights have no passengers in them it wouldn't be many (justifiably) upset people. That said, with those kinds of stats they should be doing a lot better - perhaps scheduling the non-PE planes to certain routes and not selling PE tickets on those routes might be fairly simple (keep them on the short runs like to Albury and runs where virtually nobody ever flies PE), it wouldn't exactly be rocket science.

From a customer's point of view the smart thing would be to not sell PE at all then maybe they can allocate those seats when they do have them on a certain flight to Velocity Gold Members ie under promise & over deliver.

I don't think it's practical from an operational stance to restrict the rogue aircraft to short flights only as sometimes it will be necessary due to a number of reasons to substitute an aicraft. Murphy's Law will ensure that the aircraft available at the time to do the swap will be a rogue one.

I know it's not rocket science however how many times have we seen dumb decisions being implemented that 'were not rocket science'? A company would be far better off asking a group of ten year old kids what to do than to listen to bean counters!

 

[albatross710]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

I don't think it's practical from an operational stance to restrict the rogue aircraft to short flights only as sometimes it will be necessary due to a number of reasons to substitute an aicraft. Murphy's Law will ensure that the aircraft available at the time to do the swap will be a rogue one.

I think 'substitutions for operational reasons' (aircraft u/s) are acceptable business.

I am seeing an airline that is continuing to sell PE tickets across its network but knows that it will not have suitably equipped aircraft in 20-30% of those flights.

Not an inspiring reason to buy a DJ PE seat.

 

[Moopere]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

wow! What an education this thread has been to me.

As I see DJ partnering with almost everyone and FF points becoming easier and easier to obtain for Velocity, the thought of PE DJ flights was starting to enter my consciousness as a possibility (previously almost 100% QF).

But who really has the time to book flights -and- go hunting the exact aircraft one might be flying on? Not many of us I'd suggest. Getting ****ty at checkin and trying to cancel or rebook flights may or may not work given other connecting flights or your own schedule of activities.

One wonders what would happen, if you did have enough time to fool around, if you just called your CC company and told them to reverse the original charge given non delivery of contracted product? This puts the onus back onto the airline to follow up. If they are slack, don't care - fine, you get a full refund.

You don't pay full J or PE price simply for the 'chance to win' an actual J or PE product....

Like some others have commented. I think I'll not waste further time pursuing options with Velocity and DJ until the DJ official J product arrives this year (hopefully!).

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

But who really has the time to book flights -and- go hunting the exact aircraft one might be flying on? Not many of us I'd suggest. Getting ****ty at checkin and trying to cancel or rebook flights may or may not work given other connecting flights or your own schedule of activities.

I would say that realistically no-one has time to go hunting for the rouge aircraft without PE.

l have PM'd Crazydave recently and have been in 'dialouge' with him and there are some 'major' developments happening over at DJ as we speak. So, rest assured, if you have points to burn at DJ, l would suggest holding onto them and waiting a few months. Some big changes are on the way. Shake up for QF and the monopoly of the J product for starters.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

I would say that realistically no-one has time to go hunting for the rouge aircraft without PE.

Would that be a rogue rouge aircraft given that all DJ planes are rouge in colour?

As I said in another thread QF cabin crew can't wait for DJ to roll out their premium product as it will force QF to be competitive. :!:

 

[kirk7]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Flew from Syd to Per on 11th Jan it was a 738 and it didnt have PE but they had 10 annoyed PE pax

DJ put 3 pax in row 3 on one of the columns.

Rip off- especially bad for such a long flight

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

I think that it's doing more damage than good and that DJ should just drop the whole PE product tomorrow. Just put the DJ Golds there, with the same service as the rest of the pax (so all they get are wider seats), until the J product rolls in. But, that's just me.

 

[Moopere]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

I think that it's doing more damage than good and that DJ should just drop the whole PE product tomorrow. Just put the DJ Golds there, with the same service as the rest of the pax (so all they get are wider seats), until the J product rolls in. But, that's just me.

Yes, I agree with you. At the moment they are seriously burning their premium customers ... a bad experience like this could see those customers leaving you forever which is -definitely- not what you want when you are about to roll out better upmarket services.

 

[dk4]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

I had a chat with a CS the other day, and she mentioned a few interesting things -

Just put the DJ Golds there, with the same service as the rest of the pax (so all they get are wider seats), until the J product rolls in.

As posted elsewhere, crew have been empowered to move Gold & Silver guests once onboard - if they feel they will benefit from being re-seated in P.E. (sans-ancillaries) AND there are NO paying guest(s) travelling in P.E. (Plus presumably if they also have the time and remember to do it.) She seemed genuinely excited to be able to acknowledge and reward her best customers in this way.

I think that it's doing more damage than good and that DJ should just drop the whole PE product tomorrow.

She mentioned something about a new interim solution for 737s in row 1 - where 1B & 1E would be permanently blocked from allocation, even on the rogue planes. I wasn't sure if this meant that some sort of retrofitting was going to happen, or merely enable the deployment of the in-arm-rest tray table across the blue middle seats. (But they do seem to be listening, and responding to the issue in "some way".)

Of course, this would only be of benefit if they don't oversell more than 4 P.E. seats on a sector.

I did mention to her that I thought it was great that DJ was focussed on giving us more, especially while the QF CEO and Board seem intent on taking things away*.

* e.g. space in domestic business on A330s, side salads, AccessAnytime, checked luggage allowance...