Best Airline for Frequent Travel in Australia (split thread)

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

But for international travel then extracta does have a point - QF fares are often higher than competitors (I'm excluding BA from this under the JSA) and I'm not sure really what benefit people get except for (perhaps) a slightly faster connection time to London (although i belive Qatar is the fastest at under 20 hours i read somewhere including connection time ex LHR to Australia).

But in terms of price - QF is not often the best option. And for the extra $300 or $400 (or more) to fly QF I'm not entirely convinced the on baord service makes up for it.

 

[mannej]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

How can you base a statement using a sample size of 1(day)?

QF can be more expensive, but 1 date does not give any indication of rolling trends, or a decent picture overall.

It would be interesting to see any trends established if the sample size was ~365. You would be able to give a more appropriate statement then using a sample size of 1.

Essentially, comparing the prices of DJ and QF is like comparing apples and oranges, and hence may explain difference in prices on select dates, but they do not offer the same product.

Moving back to the OP, great to see that he has returned to fill us in with the missing details:shock:

 

[medhead]

im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so long

But for international travel then extracta does have a point - QF fares are often higher than competitors (I'm excluding BA from this under the JSA)

No doubt Extracta has a point for international. Trouble is that their statement that qantas is highly expensive wasn't limited to international flights.

 

[extracta]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

Maybe its time you should try them, FF programs only work if you are a FF :shock:

I'll give you some more detail and then you may understand where I am coming from.

I fly mainly to SE Asia and like to fly Business at a premium economy price if possible.

If I book business (BNE - BKK) with QF then Full Business is $9000 and Deal Business is $5200.

TG full business is $4100

SQ $5200

Royal Brunei $3700

All have good quality business seats.

To reduce the cost of these business seats I employ some of the following measures (some of the ideas came as a result of reading comments on this site.)

VA sometimes have a special on business BNE - HKT for $1000 each way. TG HKT - BKK in business $400, total $2400.

Royal Brunei often have a special of $2700.

I can book a $1200 flexible date economy seat with TG and then pay $770 upgrade on departure. Total $2740.

I was hoping with QF that I would be able to accrue points with my credit card and then book a PE seat for $2600 and then upgrade using the points. It appears from what I have read on this forum that this will not be possible with the current upgrade policy.

If you or anyone else has ideas on how to get cheap business class fares I would be interested to know.

 

[markis10]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

I'll give you some more detail and then you may understand where I am coming from....
If you or anyone else has ideas on how to get cheap business class fares I would be interested to know.

If you are a regular flyer to Asia then you would be looking at paying 1.5-2K each way ex BKK to BNE in J using a one world carrier (cheaper using * class), which could credit to QF some 260 SCs for each trip (based on the non direct routing and above costing), so three one ways would have you some status with Oneworld as well. You would have enough points for a free trip after the second return as well.

There are plenty of tips here if you take the time to research your options and its not appropriate for me to list them here as a lot dont relate to QF, as others have already said there is a lot more to the value proposition than just the published airfare price, or routing for that matter.

 

[extracta]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

If you are a regular flyer to Asia then you would be looking at paying 1.5-2K each way ex BKK to BNE in J using a one world carrier (cheaper using * class), which could credit to QF some 260 SCs for each trip (based on the non direct routing and above costing), so three one ways would have you some status with Oneworld as well. You would have enough points for a free trip after the second return as well.

Thanks for that, checked one world and found Cathay $10000

While looking at that part of the world I checked China Airways and they were $2800

 

[markis10]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

You have not checked hard enough, it was Cathay that can do it for the prices I quoted, think outside the box and research your options, the answers you seek are already posted on this forum by experienced travellers looking for real value.

 

[notzac]

DJ have 4 early flights at $109, then 13 flights at $130 and the last flight of the night at $109. Actually the last flight looks good but I want to leave mid-afternoon/early evening and I will more than likely have more than 23kg of luggage to take home.

Qantas have 7 early flights at $101, then 3 flights at $139, a flight at $158, 3 flights at $139, 3 flights at $158, a flight at $230, 3 flights at $158 and 3 more flights at $139.

So overall DJ have 14 flights and QF have 24 flights and most of them are cheaper.

JohnK, suggesting that QF are cheaper based on your example is some impressive mathematics! QF appears to have cheaper flights in the morning, but that's about it. Even factoring in ~$10 for checked luggage and ~$10 for food (and I know it's not relevant to your use case, but I always try to avoid luggage and almost never eat on a plane), a bunch of the flights would work out cheaper on DJ.

If we factor status in, which at the very least gets you free baggage, then even more of the flights are cheaper again.

 

[Moody]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

JohnK, suggesting that QF are cheaper based on your example is some impressive mathematics! QF appears to have cheaper flights in the morning, but that's about it. Even factoring in ~$10 for checked luggage and ~$10 for food (and I know it's not relevant to your use case, but I always try to avoid luggage and almost never eat on a plane), a bunch of the flights would work out cheaper on DJ.

If we factor status in, which at the very least gets you free baggage, then even more of the flights are cheaper again.

Yes - I agree that people who claim that QF is cheaper than DJ domestically must be on another plane of existence to me (pardon the pun).

I need to go to Melbourne for a couple of days next week. So the outgoing options from 6am to 7am on Wednesday morning :-

QF - cheapest $101, average price $144
DJ - cheapest $69, average price $76

Add in breakfast plus baggage on DJ (both of which I don't need, but let's compare apples with apples) then Virgin is only $50 cheaper on average.

On the way back on Thursday night between 6:30pm and 8pm :-

QF - cheapest $160, average $205
DJ - cheapest $90, average $127

Dinner and baggage again closes the gap to a measly $60.


So on average you will save over $100 on this Sydney/Melbourne return next week. Yes - you could find times when the gap is closer and I'm sure there will even be some days when QF is cheaper than DJ, but for the average Syd/Mel run at the average sort of time frame you will absolutely save money if you always flew DJ and not QF.

The only argument is whether the extra cost is worth it.

 

[medhead]

im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so long

Yes - I agree that people who claim that QF is cheaper than DJ domestically must be on another plane of existence to me (pardon the pun).

I need to go to Melbourne for a couple of days next week. So the outgoing options from 6am to 7am on Wednesday morning :-

QF - cheapest $101, average price $144
DJ - cheapest $69, average price $76

Add in breakfast plus baggage on DJ (both of which I don't need, but let's compare apples with apples) then Virgin is only $50 cheaper on average.

On the way back on Thursday night between 6:30pm and 8pm :-

QF - cheapest $160, average $205
DJ - cheapest $90, average $127

Dinner and baggage again closes the gap to a measly $60.


So on average you will save over $100 on this Sydney/Melbourne return next week. Yes - you could find times when the gap is closer and I'm sure there will even be some days when QF is cheaper than DJ, but for the average Syd/Mel run at the average sort of time frame you will absolutely save money if you always flew DJ and not QF.

The only argument is whether the extra cost is worth it.

Interesting comparison. I would have to say that I don't consider 1 week to be an average timeframe or the average syd/Mel run. Just as many people are going to book more than 1 week out than are going to book at 1 week.

For another comparison let's try ADL-SYD 28 Sept - 1 Oct. DJ $149/$208
QF $133/$133. Both at similar times that would suit my needs for that week. For my usual flight times the last DJ flight on return is too early, but on 1 Oct is still more that the 2 later flights with QF.

someone who is able to organize themselves in advance the value is there on qantas. Without even factoring in that status is easier to get on qantas when using the cheaper fares.

Really the main point is that anyone who is after value shouldn't be locked onto either airline. One should take value where one gets it. It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that only flying DJ will save money over flying QF.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

Really the main point is that anyone who is after value shouldn't be locked onto either airline. One should take value where one gets it. It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that only flying DJ will save money over flying QF.

Absolutely. In my recent experiences on the MEL-SYD route, QF is showing consistently more expensive than DJ for the dates Im interested in. Even paying the extra to guarantee an exit row and still cheaper than Qantas for an economy purchase and would have been my choice if booking economy

Where DJ fails is when buying a business class ticket since they do not offer one but do have an expensive premium economy fare

Dave

 

[dajop]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

Really the main point is that anyone who is after value shouldn't be locked onto either airline. One should take value where one gets it. It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that only flying DJ will save money over flying QF.

+1 and the other side point to that is perception of value will be different for every person.

(for example, the more frequently I fly - the less value I get out of lounges - because I'm more inclined to get to the airport just-in-time, and also free beers on a plane and alcohol in the lounge is nice, but hey I don't normally drink alcohol on a weekday afternoon/evening - so is it of much value? probably not)

 

[medhead]

im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so long

+1 and the other side point to that is perception of value will be different for every person.

(for example, the more frequently I fly - the less value I get out of lounges - because I'm more inclined to get to the airport just-in-time, and also free beers on a plane and alcohol in the lounge is nice, but hey I don't normally drink alcohol on a weekday afternoon/evening - so is it of much value? probably not)

I guess I'm in a lucky situation that my weekend starts on Thursday night, when I fly home to ADL. As it is a late flight. I usually have time in the lounge for 2 beers. Of course, given a choice I'd rather fly earlier and have no beers.

 

[djfuzz]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

+1 and the other side point to that is perception of value will be different for every person.

(for example, the more frequently I fly - the less value I get out of lounges - because I'm more inclined to get to the airport just-in-time, and also free beers on a plane and alcohol in the lounge is nice, but hey I don't normally drink alcohol on a weekday afternoon/evening - so is it of much value? probably not)

That's actually a great point - you can be at risk of lounge fatigue too. The options presented by the food courts almost start to look attractive again.

Ironically, they decide that the weekend is when they'll charge for drinks onboard. :-|

 

[MarcB]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

I always book my flights on Qantas or other Oneworld carriers when I can. Why some may ask? Although I do about 3 international trips a year, most of my travel is domestic - both leisure and business. I am not a high frequency traveller but travel at least once a month, sometimes more. I have still managed to acheive Gold status on QF with this pattern and have had that status for 5 plus years on these travel patterns. I pay for the majority of my own travel - and always in cheap Y.

Domestically, the schedules, the lounge access, the operational upgrades etc make QF a better value propositon for me. I have flown Virgin once and that was enough - I didn't like the staff, the scrum-like boarding or really any part of the experience.

As far as international travel goes, even as a Gold, Qantas treats me demonstrably better than non-status PAX. I have received about 4 op-ups to/from the US and recently to SIN (on all occassions when travelling with the other half who also gets upgraded), and the priority boarding makes a big difference on long flights. When flights are disrupted, Qantas go out of their way to assist me - again over and above the way they assist non-status PAX.

Some may say that this is unfair, but the truth is, status PAX should be treated differently - otherwise, what is the point? In this respect, Qantas' apprecitation of my business in the way they treat me is what keeps me coming back. I am certainly not suggesting that I have never had bad experiences - but I always complain and I am always compensated accordingly. I don't sit on my hands because QF should know about rogue employees or bad experiences or they can't improve.

Virgin have done a great job of sending out a message that they are cheaper than Qantas. When I have been booking domestic travel, I have never found this to be the case. I do try to book in advance though and take advantage of sale fares, so that probably helps...but I do this becuase I wish to fly the carrier of my choice and a little planning can make this possible at a better price.

Finally, I am confused as to why we are comparing Virgin to Qantas - at least domestically. Despite some changes over the years, in my view, Virgin are still a LCC - that is their platform - and until they install business class and start competing on the same basis as Qantas (i.e. no additional charges for bags and food), there is no comparison. Virgin's competitor is Jetstar - Jetstar is Qantas' response to Virgin. It's not appropriate to compare Qantas and Virgin simply on price because they are not comparable airlines - even if you add in the $10 for a bag or $10 for pringles and a beer.

 

[Moody]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

For another comparison let's try ADL-SYD 28 Sept - 1 Oct. DJ $149/$208
QF $133/$133. Both at similar times that would suit my needs for that week. For my usual flight times the last DJ flight on return is too early, but on 1 Oct is still more that the 2 later flights with QF

Better be quick with that $133 return - it's flashing! But it is good that you can afford to commit to an airfare 2 months out ... because most business travellers can't and therefore aren't able to grab the super-cheapies from either airline.

Really the main point is that anyone who is after value shouldn't be locked onto either airline. One should take value where one gets it. It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that only flying DJ will save money over flying QF.

I agree with the first statement - always shop around. I disagree with the second statement and would bet money that any company that operates a strict BFOD policy for domestic travel would have QF coming last.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

Finally, I am confused as to why we are comparing Virgin to Qantas - at least domestically. Despite some changes over the years, in my view, Virgin are still a LCC - that is their platform - and until they install business class and start competing on the same basis as Qantas (i.e. no additional charges for bags and food), there is no comparison. Virgin's competitor is Jetstar - Jetstar is Qantas' response to Virgin. It's not appropriate to compare Qantas and Virgin simply on price because they are not comparable airlines - even if you add in the $10 for a bag or $10 for pringles and a beer.

I would disagree that DJ is a low cost carrier these days and charging separately for luggage and food is not limited to the domain of LCCs

DJ has equivalent comfort to QF Y and similar facilities such as online check in et al as QF. It is quite reasonable to compare DJ with QF these days

As far as the presence of business class defining a LCC, then Qantaslink would have to be a low cost carrier. Also, to be honest, I would suggest that it is a small percentage of business travellers that pay for business domestically


Obviously, for those paying business , there is no DJ option

Dave

 

[nlagalle]

Re: im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so l

Better be quick with that $133 return - it's flashing! But it is good that you can afford to commit to an airfare 2 months out ... because most business travellers can't and therefore aren't able to grab the super-cheapies from either airline.

I agree with the first statement - always shop around. I disagree with the second statement and would bet money that any company that operates a strict BFOD policy for domestic travel would have QF coming last.

True that quite often business travellers don't know their plans that far out. However for some, sale prices aren't a consideration when booking, flexibility is. I'm lucky that most of my flights are booked as a flex fare so it can be changed as required (which happens). That flexibilty is worth more than saving money on no flex fares.

 

[MarcB]

I would disagree that DJ is a low cost carrier these days and charging separately for luggage and food is not limited to the domain of LCCs

DJ has equivalent comfort to QF Y and similar facilities such as online check in et al as QF. It is quite reasonable to compare DJ with QF these days

As far as the presence of business class defining a LCC, then Qantaslink would have to be a low cost carrier. Also, to be honest, I would suggest that it is a small percentage of business travellers that pay for business domestically


Obviously, for those paying business , there is no DJ option

Dave

I take your point Dave, but I maintain that we're not comparing apples with apples. Virgin entered the market with a particular platform, and that was as a LCC. From memory, they were quite adamant about this so as to avoid being compared with Qantas. Over time, they have tried to evolve to compete with Qantas and their offering has changed - though I would argue not substantially. I will agree that they have placed competitive pressue on QF and that has been good for travellers - but I also think they were the one's who introduced charged check-in baggage in Australia, and I'm not sure anyone wants to thank them for bringing that to our shores!

I will stand corrected, but I believe QF are the only Australian domestic carrier offering "full service" (food, baggage etc) and in that regard, I would argue that Virgin looks more like a Tiger or a Jetstar than it does a Qantas - but again, this is my opinion. I know that overseas supposedly "full service" carriers follow a similar model to Virgin et al, but I would argue that is not a real full service offering.

Also, I wasn't suggesting that the presence of business class determined the status of a carrier as LC or otherwise, only that when you are looking at QFs overall offering, it needs to include the fact that they do have a business cabin and therefore that is part of the value proposition for those who choose to fly Qantas. I personally never pay for business domestically (and nor does my employer), but I do utilise the points upgrades and have been op-up'd into that cabin, so the ability to do that does factor into my value equation. On this basis alone, Virgin can't compete for my business.

I'm actually very interested to see what Virgin starts to look like under Borghetti beacuse if they come up with an offering that genuinely can compete equally with Qantas, then I'd certainly be willing to look at them again.

 

[medhead]

im sorry Qantas but you really have gone downhill... why? I loved Qantas for so long

But it is good that you can afford to commit to an airfare 2 months out ... because most business travellers can't and therefore aren't able to grab the super-cheapies from either airline.

I agree with the first statement - always shop around. I disagree with the second statement and would bet money that any company that operates a strict BFOD policy for domestic travel would have QF coming last.

I'm a business traveller and I can afford to commit in advance. In all my business travel since 1991 I have been able to commit in advance. Except for a handful of occasions. But I am but one example and the business traveller that can't commit in advance is also but one traveller and I would disagree that most are in this boat. However, you made a statement about the *average* neither extreme represents the average.

I would also say that a BFOD company is also only one example. It certainly doesn't back a claim that it is absolutely cheaper to fly DJ. My experience shows that is not the case.