Baggage..The hidden cost

[kezsco]

I expect a proffessional to know theses things and to ask questions. Has anyone read the "Goods Act"...you are entitled to rely on the skill and eexpertise of agents of any product...not read minds but ask questions!
your Caveat Emptor approch would not be tolerated in any other industry. When you pick up your next new car and they tell you after you paid that the engine is extra and there is no way out will you be happy???

Again, a fairly selective example. It would have been better to say the purchased car only had 300litres of storage space as opposed to 350litres, and expecting the salesperson to have pointed that out to you... of course not. They don't know that this is a relevant point to you.

A TA would have known the baggage allowance differences. You would have only had to point that this was important to you. A TA is usually happy to book you on a more expensive fare. However, the TA isn't going to sit down and say "seat pitch on three options are xx_, transit times are 10 minutes more for xx_, entertainment options are xx_, meal options are xx_, transiting airports for an older person then xx_ airline is better." They would have said something for sure if it was a LCC, but Qatar is an excellent (overall) airline.

You tell the TA what you want and what is important to you. In this case "most direct flight and price". Then you have got the result you wanted because this is the cheapest and most direct.

As previously mentioned, if you're over by a couple of kgs, they will usually let it slide. Especially for someone who looks like they aren't able to juggle 7kgs in hand luggage. Also, look at pre booked excess luggage as well.

Anyway, good to see you have moved on from blaming Qatar to blaming the TA.

 

[Flashback]

That could be right.

General FAQs | Qatar Airways

Excess baggage will be charged at the airport. For excess baggage rates please contact your nearest Qatar Airways Office (click here for a list of office locations).

 

[anat0l]

As previously mentioned, if you're over by a couple of kgs, they will usually let it slide. Especially for someone who looks like they aren't able to juggle 7kgs in hand luggage.

Whilst that may be the truth, it's dangerous to put hope in this (i.e. stick to the specified limits).

Anyway, good to see you have moved on from blaming Qatar to blaming the TA.

Whilst I agree it was the TA's fault per se, the accusations of 'theft' and violating the TPA are not appropriate (the former more than the latter, as the latter may just be true, but need more evidence from the OP).

If the TA was asked why one fare should be picked compared to the other (apart from cost, or why pick EK if it is more expensive than QR), then the TA should probably list baggage as one factor (at least the allowance, not necessarily the overweight charges, and especially since EK does offer up to 10kg more than most other competing carriers in Economy), amongst some others (like seat pitch etc.).

I also find it hard to digest something like "a reasonable amount of luggage". Certainly, though, most people who think they might carry lots of weight would be prudent to find out how much is charged for excess baggage and tell the TA that this is necessary (for reasons - see next sentence). These people tend to be those that do a lot of shopping or are moving house, not the run of the mill passenger (who would be prudent not to be overweight in the first place!).

 

[Dave Noble]

To me, unless the TA was told that luggage allowance was an issue, I don't see that the TA did anything wrong. If the TA was told that luggage was a concern, then it needed to be relayed to the TA and given that 20Kg has been the standard for many years, hardly something that would expect the TA to specifically cover

If it was an airline that only allows 15Kg, then yes, being different to the standard, I would have hoped that the issue would be mentioned

 

[NM]

your Caveat Emptor approch would not be tolerated in any other industry. When you pick up your next new car and they tell you after you paid that the engine is extra and there is no way out will you be happy???

A poor example, I suggest. A car without an engine is useless to anyone. I suggest a better example is that the new a car from one manufacturer comes standard with a 1.6 litre engine and if you want to upgrade it to a 1.8 litre engine there is a cost, while a new card from another manufacturer comes standard with a 1.8 litre engine. Both cars can be driven with the standard engine, but if you decide you really want a 1.8 litre engine then it may well be cheaper to purchase the second car rather than the first with the upgraded engine.

 

[jackcollins1960]

just amazes me that someof you want to accept that 20KG is "The Norm" !!
this is the list I put together earlies in 5 mins "... check out QANTAS 23kg or ETIHAD 23KG or British Airways 23KG (and of course Emirates at 30KG) or V Australia at 23KG, China Airlines at 23KG......shall I keep going?"
Obviously I need to as these are apparently a minority!!
well what about KLM 23KG, Air france 23KG, LAN 23KG, Iberia 23KG...and I can list more...but I guess there is no need to those who understand that and no explanation is possible to those who want to belive 20KG's is the norm!

If someone said that "price" was acriterion would not the cost of additional luggage set off an immediate alarm bell with a professional TA ? joining those dots is not rocket science!

 

[jackcollins1960]

Yes Moderator...but you would be pretty angry if the Dealer did not alert you to the fact that the 1.8 ltr engine was additional cost on the second car! Right?

 

[anat0l]

To me, unless the TA was told that luggage allowance was an issue, I don't see that the TA did anything wrong. If the TA was told that luggage was a concern, then it needed to be relayed to the TA and given that 20Kg has been the standard for many years, hardly something that would expect the TA to specifically cover

If it was an airline that only allows 15Kg, then yes, being different to the standard, I would have hoped that the issue would be mentioned

Although I'm not actively disagreeing with you here, there are a few issues:

• If a TA isn't too concerned about luggage allowances as part of the product which they sell, what are they primarily selling and what should customers primarily know?
• 20kg may be a 'standard' amount of luggage, but there are so many new passengers every day. Is it reasonable for them to know that there are standard allowances?
• 20kg is only a de facto standard at best. It was never enshrined, most of us just got used to the fact that most airlines give this amount, give or take a few kg. Now with so many out there, it always pays (no pun intended) to check.
  A similar argument could be made that LCCs give no checked bags on cheapest fares and/or the standard first price point for paid luggage is 15kg, not 20kg. Not really a standard, but I do see a common pattern with respect to this one.

 

[serfty]

How much was the TA paid for their services?

Personally I would expect a TA to be across such issues and advise accordingly.

 

[NM]

Yes Moderator...but you would be pretty angry if the Dealer did not alert you to the fact that the 1.8 ltr engine was additional cost on the second car! Right?

I would expect the dealer to have made me aware of what was standard equipment and what options cost extra. If I was not satisfied with the quantity or quality of information from the dealer I would have researched myself or found another dealer. But I have a great mistrust of car salesman, so this may also influence my acceptance of any information provided.

 

[anat0l]

just amazes me that someof you want to accept that 20KG is "The Norm" !!
this is the list I put together earlies in 5 mins "... check out QANTAS 23kg or ETIHAD 23KG or British Airways 23KG (and of course Emirates at 30KG) or V Australia at 23KG, China Airlines at 23KG......shall I keep going?"
Obviously I need to as these are apparently a minority!!
well what about KLM 23KG, Air france 23KG, LAN 23KG, Iberia 23KG...and I can list more...but I guess there is no need to those who understand that and no explanation is possible to those who want to belive 20KG's is the norm!

That's because it was the norm for a long time before and in a way it still is in some countries. (The only reason why 23kg is becoming more common is because it lines up nicely with the Americans who base the weight on lb-m, i.e. 50 lb-m converts roughly to 22.5 kg).

In any case, whilst 23 kg is becoming more common, there are still several carriers that still have 20 kg allowances in Economy for flights not including those to the Americas / on the piece concept:

• Singapore Airlines
• Malaysia Airlines
• South African Airways
• The Lufthansa Group (Lufthansa, Swiss International, Austrian)
• Cathay Pacific
• Thai Airways
• EVA Air
• bmi British Midland

None of these are 'hole in the wall' airlines either.

Also, some of the airlines have only very recently (within the last 0-3 years) changed to a 23kg allowance. Qantas is a fairly recent entrant. Etihad only changed policies about a month ago. That is why airlines - like KLM and Etihad - have information pages that actually say that if you booked a ticket before a certain date, your checked baggage allowance is actually lower (because it uses the old limits of 20kg), even if the date you are flying is after the date of the policy change.

So maybe 'norm' is not the right word but to find an allowance of 20 kg is not as unorthodox as you think.

 

[jackcollins1960]

EXACTLY moderator...you would have expected the Dealer to know and point out thisgs that would affect the car / price....not keep stum or be ignorant!

 

[medhead]

Yes Moderator...but you would be pretty angry if the Dealer did not alert you to the fact that the 1.8 ltr engine was additional cost on the second car! Right?

But then one would be a fool for not checking the information about the car for themself.

 

[Dave Noble]

Although I'm not actively disagreeing with you here, there are a few issues:If a TA isn't too concerned about luggage allowances as part of the product which they sell, what are they primarily selling and what should customers primarily know?

Customers need to be aware or what they want to know if there is a specific area that they are interesd in

20kg is only a de facto standard at best. It was never enshrined, most of us just got used to the fact that most airlines give this amount, give or take a few kg. Now with so many out there, it always pays (no pun intended) to check.

It was the IATA standard and the 20/30/40 KG allowance used to be specified on the IATA site. Now the site says

Below are general guidelines to help you plan your travel, but please make sure to check with your airline first as baggage allowance may differ depending on route, class fare, etc.

Checked baggage
In general, checked baggage is expressed in one of two ways.

The "weight concept" defines the amount of baggage entitled by the passenger's ticket in kilos. For example, an economy class passenger may be entitled to 20 kilos of baggage and a business class passenger to 30 kilos.

Dave

 

[jackcollins1960]

just amazes me that someof you want to accept that 20KG is "The Norm" !!
this is the list I put together earlies in 5 mins "... check out QANTAS 23kg or ETIHAD 23KG or British Airways 23KG (and of course Emirates at 30KG) or V Australia at 23KG, China Airlines at 23KG......shall I keep going?"
Obviously I need to as these are apparently a minority!!
well what about KLM 23KG, Air france 23KG, LAN 23KG, Iberia 23KG...and I can list more...but I guess there is no need to those who understand that and no explanation is possible to those who want to belive 20KG's is the norm!

OBVIOUSLY STILL NOT ENOUGH?
so lets add air Canada, Air Pacfic, Alitalia.....all 23KG!
I think this is more than enough to dismiss any claim the 20KG is the standard or the Norm! the fact remains that what you are buying is the a ticket to get you and your luggae from point A to point B...the rest is secondary. So anything that impacts the price should be on a level way above "seat pitch" etc
Perhaps I should appeal on the basis that my dear old Mum only weighs 50KG...saving the airline about 25KG on the average person?...I am sure that will work!

I bought the ticket yestarday...on todays rules

 

[jackcollins1960]

Yes Medhead and the dealer would be in breach of the Godds act as you are entitled to rely on the skill and judgement of a person who calims to be an professional in that field!
Guess T A 's are special!

 

[medhead]

In my experience 3kgs is actually quite a lot of clothing.

Pair of Trousers ~450g
Pair of Jeans ~650g
Business/Casual Long Sleeve Shirt ~250g
Polo T-Shirt ~200g-300g
Singlet ~150g
Underpants ~45g-60g
Socks ~35g-50g
Golf Ball ~45g

And yes I did go through the process of weighing everything on my small 3kg (max) scales. In the end I was very close with the actual total weight.

Oh, my bad 3 pairs of pants and 5 shirts. Gee that'll make a massive difference for a month away. Might not have to wash for another 3 days!

Sorry, but my family of 4 including young children can go to Europe for 3 weeks, including to a wedding, on no more than 70 kg between us. That included also moving between 5 cities and living in hotels.

I assume your mum is going to stay with friends and family. So will have a semi-permanent base with washing facilities etc.

 

[anat0l]

OBVIOUSLY STILL NOT ENOUGH?

No...keep shouting and keep going, please

 

[jackcollins1960]

the inescapable point here is that most Price is one of the most important issues to most people...so ANYTHING that can sustantialy impact the price should be brought to the attention of the customer...especialy when it is buried in the fine print and IS NOT consistant between suppliers (Airlines in this case)...hence I feel cheated!

 

[anat0l]

Yes Medhead and the dealer would be in breach of the Godds act as you are entitled to rely on the skill and judgement of a person who calims to be an professional in that field!
Guess T A 's are special!

Now now...let's not use the Lord's name in vain.

If you are so convinced then I would recommend you to go to your local consumer tribunal and file a claim. It seems that you are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the TA was violating the law.

Oh, my bad 3 pairs of pants and 5 shirts. Gee that'll make a massive difference for a month away. Might not have to wash for another 3 days!

Sorry, but my family of 4 including young children can go to Europe for 3 weeks, including to a wedding, on no more than 70 kg between us. That included also moving between 5 cities and living in hotels.

I assume your mum is going to stay with friends and family. So will have a semi-permanent base with washing facilities etc.

We must be a bit more considerate for those who:

• Insist on carrying the kitchen sink
• Can't be as savvy with weight management as others
• Are compulsive shoppers, or enjoy bringing home plenty of gifts, trinkets or a year's supply of toiletries bought overseas on the cheap (the last one refers more to my mum's habits)
• Need to bring extra clothes beyond a week's supply because if they don't, they'll definitely be caught and accused of wearing the same thing again