Airbags on board? CX, AF & KL say yes

[thewinchester]

Spotted earlier today, and an interesting one.

If they say they're fitted in the seatbelt, how does that effect the brace position for those who can't reach the seat in front of them or for smaller pax? Does this increase the likelihood of injury if the bag was to deploy too close to delicate body parts.

Oh, and I meant the face, eyes and nose - keep it above the waistline!

Cathay, Air France-KLM Embrace Airbags as Safety Rules Tighten
Tuesday, June 8, 2010
Bloomberg via San Francisco Chronicle

June 9 (Bloomberg) -- Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. and Air France-KLM Group have begun introducing seatbelt-mounted airbags in their economy-class cabins as authorities tighten regulations aimed at reducing the risk of fatalities in plane crashes.

All aircraft built in the U.S. since October must conform to standards designed to keep passengers conscious through an impact involving deceleration at 16 times the force of gravity so that they can escape any subsequent fire. The same rules will be introduced in Europe by the end of next year, European Aviation Safety Agency spokesman Jeremie Teahan said.

While many seats comply with the so-called 16g rule without needing airbags, which are installed in about 2 percent of seats, manufacturer AmSafe Inc. predicts they'll become standard by 2020 amid heightened awareness of safety issues. The devices cost about $1,200 apiece, versus $25 for a regular seatbelt.

"The problem with our economy seats is that they have rigid shells and a head impact is more difficult to handle," Cathay Pacific Chief Executive Officer Tony Tyler said in an interview in Berlin. "Therefore we need airbags."

 

[milehighclub]

The recent A330-200 delivered to Qantas have airbags in economy class seats for seats in front of the bulkheads - also to comply with these new regulations

 

[samh004]

So $1200 compared to $25… I hope that price comes down otherwise I know what they’ll be blaming higher fares on next.

Seriously, airbags? If you can get to an exit after a crash with a bruise or a fracture, you’ve survived, why do you need to be more comfortable?

 

[brett-au]

So $1200 compared to $25… I hope that price comes down otherwise I know what they’ll be blaming higher fares on next.

I have a feeling that Cathay having to adopt them in all economy seats in their (new) A330s was enough to take them from expensive gimmick to a larger production run.

But ugh. They take up a heap of room, are heavy, and inflexible. I also worry after seeing them being deployed on youtube, just how many will get in the way of people trying to unclip their belt in a hurry - not at the inflated stage at the empty balloon bit.

 

[JohnK]

As long as a new surcharge is not introduced to cover the costs.

Do we have a choice if we want an airbag or not?

 

[mosanator]

They could save themselves and allot of pax's lives if they were to mount the seats facing rearwards. Leading crash investigators have been saying this for years, but the travelling public want to face the direction of travel and it is not thought to be a popular option.

Given the choice of being folded over like a half opened pocket knife and trapped in an accident or facing backwards which would you prefer?

 

[medhead]

Airbags to stop you banging your head. Good idea. But what about something to stop your legs from breaking on the seat in front. I'm not sure I'd be happy if the airbag stops me from being knocked out, but I'm sitting burning to death because both my legs are broken and I can't get out.

 

[blueflamenco]

They could save themselves and allot of pax's lives if they were to mount the seats facing rearwards. Leading crash investigators have been saying this for years, but the travelling public want to face the direction of travel and it is not thought to be a popular option.

Given the choice of being folded over like a half opened pocket knife and trapped in an accident or facing backwards which would you prefer?

This is the first I have heard of this. I have no preference to which way I face. Interesting.

 

[blueflamenco]

I seem to recall Alaska Airlines having introduced these too. I don't know enough about it to really comment but I would like to think that they are being put in with good reason and may increase passenger safety.

 

[blueflamenco]

Airbags to stop you banging your head. Good idea. But what about something to stop your legs from breaking on the seat in front. I'm not sure I'd be happy if the airbag stops me from being knocked out, but I'm sitting burning to death because both my legs are broken and I can't get out.

Always the optimist!

Perhaps you would be lucky enough to have a kind fellow passenger carry or drag you? Let's hope we never have to find out.

 

[medhead]

Always the optimist!

Perhaps you would be lucky enough to have a kind fellow passenger carry or drag you? Let's hope we never have to find out.

Yep, hope indeed.

 

[k_sheep]

Hmm the risk:benefit ratio here seems kind of high. Let's be honest, with all the major commercial crashes for the last few years, there were either zero or 100% fatalities (feel free to correct me here - I've mainly got the american plane going into the river and the Air france plane going into the ocean in my head). So with the 0% fatalities, it'll probably increase injuries and greatly increase cost. With the 100%, it'll make no difference to injuries (even if you survive it because of the airbag, what are you going to do, row to Reunion?) and increase cost.

There's those couple of crashing on landing/takeoff events recently too - might have made a difference there.

 

[medhead]

Hmm the risk:benefit ratio here seems kind of high. Let's be honest, with all the major commercial crashes for the last few years, there were either zero or 100% fatalities (feel free to correct me here - .

There are a couple of aircrash investigation episodes were people get out. But my take on those are that there are other big risks. e.g. The legs being broken by he seat in front. A kiwi bloke has been campaign on this point for years and apparently there are better seat designs.

But then there is the aircraft that crashed off an island in the indian ocean (sorry can't spell the name starts with Maur). Perhaps less people would have drowned if the airbag stopped them hitting their head on a hard surface.

Overall, besides a few examples, I think your impression is roughly correct.

 

[mosanator]

There are other examples of crashes with survivors.
BMI 737 in the Midlands in 89 crashes just short of runway @ 40 killed but @ 70 survived

JAL 747 in Japan, the one where the tail was blown off, they rescued 4 pax but they say there were more alive, it just took too long to get to them.

Air Florida 737 into the Potomac, 5 or 6 survived, and even though it went into a frozen river only @20 of the deaths were from drowning the rest was from seat and floor failure.

United DC8 near Portland Oregon - 150 odd out of 190 pax survive when aircraft crashes short of runway

The famous United DC10 crash at Sioux City, 100 odd dead but 180 odd survive.

Plus those few that have already been mentioned.

 

[Egg]

There was a BBC doco on SBS a while ago about surviving plane crashes which cited some interesting stats:

"Most people believe that if they're in a plane crash their time is up. In fact the truth is surprisingly different. In the US alone, between 1983 and 2000, there were 568 plane crashes. Out of the collective 53,487 people onboard, 51,207 survived.

The advances in science and technology now mean over 90% of plane crashes have survivors."


BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | How to survive a plane crash

 

[harvyk]

Given the choice of being folded over like a half opened pocket knife and trapped in an accident or facing backwards which would you prefer?

To be comfortable during my flight, given the actual likelyhood of been involved in a serious incident where you'd only survive if you where facing backwards is next to zero then I chose to be comfortable during my flights.

Also the main deciding factor (assuming you survive the crash itself) is how far you are away from a servicable exit, and that can not be determined until after a crash, as it's quite common that one or more exits are unavailable during an emergency evac...

 

[oz_mark]

To be comfortable during my flight, given the actual likelyhood of been involved in a serious incident where you'd only survive if you where facing backwards is next to zero then I chose to be comfortable during my flights.

It is not just about surviving - it is also about how much damage you suffer if you do survive.