Virgin a leading frequent flyer

[thewinchester]

That's at least according to US-based brand consultancy IdeaWorks and loyalty software vendor ezRez. From The Australian.

At least the report isn't a verbatim copy of a press release, sticking to the supported facts none the less.

Virgin a leading frequent flyer
The Australian, May 04, 2010 12:00AM

VIRGIN Blue's Velocity program is among the world's best when it comes to claiming redemptions but Qantas remains a middle-order batsman, according to a new survey.

US brand consultants IdeaWorks and loyalty software company ezRez made 6160 frequent flyer booking queries for two travellers on 22 frequent flyer program websites to see which programs came through for travellers. Working during February and March, they looked at travel on set dates from June to October on 10 long-haul routes and 10 city pairs under 4025km.

They found Virgin Blue's program ranked fourth with a 90 per cent success rate after leader Southwest Airlines of the US (99.3 per cent), Air Berlin (98.6 per cent) and Air Canada (93.6 per cent).

Qantas came in 10th with 72.9 per cent, behind Singapore Airlines (77.1 per cent) but ahead of United Airlines (68.6 per cent), Cathay Pacific (67.1 per cent) and British Airways (65 per cent).

 

[The Beast]

I'd be really interested in the views of other AFF members on this one, as I was a little surprised by this article. My own experience has been far better in getting the award flights that I want from QF rather than DJ - is it just me??

 

[notzac]

Seeing as I've got basically no points (and my favourite use of points - long haul upgrades - still aren't possible! ), I haven't spent a lot of time looking. When I have looked, redemptions seemed reasonably available -- especially when you start to compare long haul premium cabin availability to other carriers.

 

[samh004]

I would assume this is more to do with the proportion of members between QF and DJ, though we all know QF don’t release many seats as it is anyway.

It doesn’t say what routes or what class? Bit dubious there.

 

[markis10]

I think their methodology is somewhat flawed, while the way they did things makes sense with newer members, it does not take into account increased availability for top tier members, those who are truly frequent flyers. Sure, there must be quite a few frequent flyers who have large balances from non flying points earning, but the increased availability for classic awards can make a lot of difference.

There would also be a big difference between seats available and cost, DJ often have seats available but not always at the lower levels, did the survey use anyseat awards for QF and are there similar redemptions available with the other airlines?

 

[drron]

I think their methodology is somewhat flawed, while the way they did things makes sense with newer members, it does not take into account increased availability for top tier members, those who are truly frequent flyers. Sure, there must be quite a few frequent flyers who have large balances from non flying points earning, but the increased availability for classic awards can make a lot of difference.

There would also be a big difference between seats available and cost, DJ often have seats available but not always at the lower levels, did the survey use anyseat awards for QF and are there similar redemptions available with the other airlines?

There is no doubt that infrequent/CC fliers do not like the QFF system.They believe it is their right to redeem at the cheapest cost on the busiest routes at peak periods.That obviously isnt going to happen.
The Velocity system is much more friendly-you put in your date and time and virtually always it gives you availability.Only problem is that it is usually at the highest points cost at those busy times.
When I calculate what I have spent to get the award those DJ costs are high-much more than a QFF classic award.Comes nowhere near the value I get from Aadvantage.Then again thanks to the excessive time I spend on these forums I hope I have a little more knowledge than the average punter.

 

[albatross710]

Another factor is the lead time to the required dates.

Key for me is being able to set my plans in place 6 -12 months (or more) in advance. This allows me to start my research prior to the 330 day booking window.

I wouldn't expect that I would find realistic redemption opportunities <90 days to departure unless if is on the routes that the airline is encouraging redemptions.

So, different carriers may have different performances based on the lead time from request date to the travel and this would need ot be controlled for in the research.

 

[anat0l]

Not awfully surprising on the findings, but let's do some digestion (free for debate, anyone):

• DJ award availability? Of course always there. However, "always" implies getting the "any seat" (or whatever they call it) at the worst. In my limited experience, I have normally had good fortune finding lower than any seat rates for DJ redemption (and all of us in the family are DJ Red), but there have been a couple of times where all we could find were any seats (and this is not a last minute booking).
• SQ awards are generally claimed to be good and most people have no trouble getting an award (especially in Y). But some seem to complain that the taxes can be high.
• UA, CX and BA behind QF? A little bit surprising. Now I want to know what their methodology is.
• QF classic award availability can be low for the no-status passenger. Everyone was a NB at one time and some (including me) have tried to find classic award seats previously, with limited success, and almost no chance at premium seats.

Note that getting Y seats is usually a whole different ball game to getting anything better than Y, especially when the number of pax for travel is 2 or more. Then the cost is another thing, although this might demote QF off the top 10 if points costing was factored into the ranks.

In saying all this, there must have been some controls (viz. any seat or not) because if they simply did a methodology where "if there is any button we can click to get a seat, that is a successful find", then DJ (and some others) should be 100% success rate (because, barring the unlikely scenario that a flight is already completely full, there will always be seats that can be obtained at an "any seat" price level using the awards search engine). So there must have been some level of "control" with respect to this study.

 

[dajop]

"if there is any button we can click to get a seat, that is a successful find", then DJ (and some others) should be 100% success rate

(and some others) includes in QF. Just the difference is that the DJ booking engine brings up reward flights (column 1) then "anyseat" flights (columns 2,3 ..etc) whereas on QF these appear in different search engines. NZ can also be added to that list, they don't even have a "reward flight" category, just pure and simple commercial fares.

A study looking at FF availability needs look at what is a "reasonable" cost for an award - subjective I know - perhaps the lowest category of award redemption, ie. excludes anyseat on QF, standard awards on SQ, and availabilities at those levels.

 

[anat0l]

FWIW as a QF WP I can get a Y classic award seat for almost any route (international or domestic) at almost any time, including in the short term. What I can't get I stand not a bad chance of obtaining by calling Qantas Premium and registering a Platinum request to yield management.

In saying that, I haven't really tested the waters fully on this one. All I know is that I did quite a bit of searching before for seats and I could find easily lots of Y awards (on some days and some routes, that's all I could find; on some days and some routes, I could find anything except Y awards (e.g. Y+, J)!). As for Platinum requests, I've gotten 1 F award and 1 partner J award through requests.

Premium availability is a different thing. It is easy to see a range of F and J awards as a WP; whether they are the right dates and the right flight numbers for your choice is a whole different matter (but it will always be the case when you start to get picky, irrespective of your status).

In short, if looking at pure classic award availability and nothing else, status - IMO - has a significant effect on this in the QF program.

I'm not sure if other elites - EK, DJ, NZ, SQ, AA etc. - notice similar patterns and practices when redeeming on their FFP's awards.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

• SQ awards are generally claimed to be good and most people have no trouble getting an award (especially in Y). But some seem to complain that the taxes can be high.

Having switched to SQ about a year back I have found from MEL availaibity to be good.
While I have been booking J savers in the main, I have also looked at Y and there has been plenty of availability.

Asa non-elite in either SQ or QF 9though am QC0 this has been excellent for me.

While yes taxes on SQ are high this is in my mind more than made up for by:
1/ 15 % on-line booking discount
2/ much cheaper points for Saver j , than J on QFF

Also with SQ can redeem *A at attractive rates. ie 150k MEL-Europe return with excellent availability.


While ANYTIME redemtion would be nice, I am more than happen to put up with advance booking where the point cost is much cheaper.

 

[pauly7]

Not awfully surprising on the findings, but let's do some digestion (free for debate, anyone):

• SQ awards are generally claimed to be good and most people have no trouble getting an award (especially in Y). But some seem to complain that the taxes can be high.

Um, tried to redeem a J class on Singapore from Aus lately? With all their equipment changes and restricting certain aircraft from saver fares, I'm finding Singapore a giant pain in the A at the moment!

 

[dajop]

Um, tried to redeem a J class on Singapore from Aus lately?

Aus = SYD/MEL? From BNE/PER/ADL I imagine (haven't checked it out though) it may be slightly easier as they have the new regional product (which allows savers), but of course that doesn't help 45% that live in the SYD/MEL catchments ....unless combining with a DJ or QF redemption to get to BNE/ADL.

 

[albatross710]

Um, tried to redeem a J class on Singapore from Aus lately? With all their equipment changes and restricting certain aircraft from saver fares, I'm finding Singapore a giant pain in the A at the moment!

Just checked for tomorrow, Saturday & Sunday, SQ J Savers available BNE-SIN-BNE, 76,500 points online and $345 taxes. SQ easy availability out of Brisbane so maybe worth considering transit via BNE, enjoy the weather then sit back and enjoy the SQ Regional product.

 

[JohnK]

I have never had a problem booking award seats in economy on Qantas. I even managed to book 2 Oneworld RTW awards for travel last August and had no major drama except availability was getting low coming home during school holidays in September.

While yes taxes on SQ are high this is in my mind more than made up for by:
1/ 15 % on-line booking discount
2/ much cheaper points for Saver j , than J on QFF

With SQ I had great difficulty finding business saver availability SYD-ATH for my mother. Admittedly we were limited to a 2-3 week travel window but I looked around and still could not find business saver availability so in the end settled for an economy saver with limited availabilty and accepted a less than ideal date for travel.

I have been doing some research and I have found that as a QF Platinum and travelling in economy I can get better value out of QF Any Seat Awards to most destinations I want to travel than I can get with SQ even with their 15% online booking discount.

I have even given myself the challenge of creating a RTW itinerary (using a mixture of Any Seat Awards and Classic awards) with 3-4 stopovers and keeping the cost down below 140,000 QFF points and also earning SCs in the process.