Volcano disrupts all flights to UK (April 2010)

[uzza]

I was looking at the QF Jet Tracker on theqantassource.com, and from the looks of this the A380 that runs QF93 on a Wednesday is repositioned from SYD after operating QF32:

08/04/2010 VH-OQF QF11 Sydney Los Angeles
08/04/2010 VH-OQF QF12 Los Angeles Sydney
10/04/2010 VH-OQF QF31 SydneySingaporeLondon Heathrow
11/04/2010 VH-OQF QF32 London HeathrowSingaporeSydney
14/04/2010 VH-OQF QF6017 SydneyMelbourne
14/04/2010 VH-OQF QF93 MelbourneLos Angeles
16/04/2010 VH-OQF QF93 Melbourne Los Angeles

So I'm curious as to what will happen with the A380 this wednesday when I'm due to fly on it if it has to come from SIN-SYD-MEL to operate the flight and as QF is talking like pax may not be moving until wednesday from LHR (read that rumour on either FT or A.net). Would there be other A380's in either SIN or AUS that will run the flight that day or is a A/C swap likely? (I can live with a 744 as long as it means that I get to LA)

Surely QF won't want to cancel (or more specifically delay) any North American flights/pax as a result of the delays in the EU (unless the cloud has moved over there by Wed ). I'd think they would like to keep as much normality on its other routes during this whole mess.

 

[serfty]

Things are starting to get interesting on the delays.

From lloydah on Business Traveller:

My parents were supposed to fly back from Delhi to Manchester yesterday, obviously couldn't get through - they were put up in a five-star hotel by Emirates so everyone was very happy, except that a representative from Emirates arrived at the hotel this morning to inform them that Emirates had now discharged their 24-houduty of care to them and they were to vacate the hotel. "They've decided this isn't good enough, so they are refusing to remove their suitcases from the bedrooms and they're staging a sit-in."

...

Emirates would be in breach of EU regulation 260/2004 with that one if it had applied. It doesn', as EK is a non EU registered carrier and the flight was not FROM an EU port.

Under this regulation, there is no clause in relation to "extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken" that allow to airlines to avoid their duty of care obligations. They must feed and also accommodate passengers "where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary".

EUR-Lex - 32004R0261 - EN

Article 6

Delay

1. When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure:

(a) for two hours or more in the case of flights of 1500 kilometres or less; or

(b) for three hours or more in the case of all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres and of all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres; or

(c) for four hours or more in the case of all flights not falling under (a) or (b),

passengers shall be offered by the operating air carrier:

(i) the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2); and

(ii) when the reasonably expected time of departure is at least the day after the time of departure previously announced, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and

(iii) when the delay is at least five hours, the assistance specified in Article 8(1)(a).

Article 9

Right to care

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:

(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;

(b) hotel accommodation in cases

- where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or

- where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;

(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).

2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.

3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of unaccompanied children.

 

[jb747]

.....So I'm curious as to what will happen with the A380 this wednesday when I'm due to fly on it if it has to come from SIN-SYD-MEL to operate the flight and as QF is talking like pax may not be moving until wednesday from LHR (read that rumour on either FT or A.net). Would there be other A380's in either SIN or AUS that will run the flight that day or is a A/C swap likely? (I can live with a 744 as long as it means that I get to LA)

Surely QF won't want to cancel (or more specifically delay) any North American flights/pax as a result of the delays in the EU (unless the cloud has moved over there by Wed ). I'd think they would like to keep as much normality on its other routes during this whole mess.

You can't really extrapolate the aircraft movements next week, based on what happened last week. Aircraft come and go in the service rotation, depending upon lots of factors. Maintenance often pulls them out for a day or so. So, a 32 could just as easily become the 93, or the 11, or the 31...or just go to the hangar.

No 380s are trapped in Europe. The only one that was up there got out just before Heathrow closed. At the moment they seem to be running a daily 380 from Oz to Singapore and back. It's really too early to say just how the aircraft will be used when services are resumed. It's not impossible that max 380s could be used to London in a attempt to clear the backlog, but that will be affected by crew availability at the LHR end.

There is no reason to expect any service cancellations across the Pacific because of the EU disruptions.

 

[uzza]

You can't really extrapolate the aircraft movements next week, based on what happened last week. Aircraft come and go in the service rotation, depending upon lots of factors. Maintenance often pulls them out for a day or so. So, a 32 could just as easily become the 93, or the 11, or the 31...or just go to the hangar.

No 380s are trapped in Europe. The only one that was up there got out just before Heathrow closed. At the moment they seem to be running a daily 380 from Oz to Singapore and back. It's really too early to say just how the aircraft will be used when services are resumed. It's not impossible that max 380s could be used to London in a attempt to clear the backlog, but that will be affected by crew availability at the LHR end.

There is no reason to expect any service cancellations across the Pacific because of the EU disruptions.

Thanks jb747,

I was really hoping you would reply to that post (being on the inside and all)

Really good news on both fronts there, that the A380's aren't trapped and that one movement one time doesn't dictate future movements.

If I get a 744 on wednesday well "Que Sera Sera" ,but I'm hoping that I still get the A380 as scheduled - I'm just lucky that my flights (should!) be going!

I don't suppose QF93 this Wednesday is on your roster by any chance???

 

[jb747]

I don't suppose QF93 this Wednesday is on your roster by any chance???

I'm in Singapore at the moment. The schedule is for me to operate the 10 to Melbourne tomorrow night, but in reality I have no idea where I'll be going, or when.

So, no 93s next week...

 

[uzza]

I'm in Singapore at the moment. The schedule is for me to operate the 10 to Melbourne tomorrow night, but in reality I have no idea where I'll be going, or when.

So, no 93s next week...

Bugger!

Might get lucky and catch you on the return to SYD on QF12 in June

 

[Mal]

Another update:
NATS

Following the latest information from the MET Office, NATS advises that restrictions across UK controlled airspace have been extended until at least 1900 (UK Time) today Saturday 17 April and that restrictions to Scottish and Manchester airspace have been re-applied until the same time.

Current forecasts show that the situation is worsening throughout Saturday. We are continuing to look for windows of opportunity to handle individual flights in UK controlled airspace.

The next update will be at approximately 0900 (UK time) as planned.

BA managed to sneak a few planes into the UK (from the US) through Scotland and are apparently busing pax back to LHR. However, those opened airports are now closed again. I believe Irish airports are open as well (for US destinations and regional Ireland)

This really is going to be a nightmare for the financial results of certain UK based carriers... Unless of course they have Insurance for this event.

 

[Mal]

"They've decided this isn't good enough, so they are refusing to remove their suitcases from the bedrooms and they're staging a sit-in."

Interesting. I'm not sure Dubai is the sort of place I would try to "enforce" my rights in that way...

 

[samh004]

This really is going to be a nightmare for the financial results of certain UK based carriers... Unless of course they have Insurance for this event.

I saw the latest forecast and it looked like Germany, France and a few other countries with smaller carriers will also be suspended from flying completely. So I doubt the problem would be just with BA and VS et al.

Interesting. I'm not sure Dubai is the sort of place I would try to "enforce" my rights in that way...

I assumed they were in Delhi, if their flight was “from Delhi to Manchester…” and they hadn’t even got to Dubai yet, but I guess it’s conceivable Emirates flew them part way.

 

[Oggy]

A volcano ate my QF Frequent flyer points

Has anybody else out there just been told that their flight is cancelled due to the volcanic ash issue and they will not be getting their QF frequent flyer points back?

Does this seem in any way equitable? Surely one would expect a sympathetic approach from Qantas under the circumstances, or am I asking too much of them?

The problem that I've got is that I was supposed to be running in the Boston marathon on Monday so a cancelled flight means a cancelled trip with no option of rescheduling.

I'm sure that there will be others in this situation, so let's try to work on getting a fair response from Qantas.

 

[Mal]

Re: A volcano ate my QF Frequent flyer points

Has anybody else out there just been told that their flight is cancelled due to the volcanic ash issue and they will not be getting their QF frequent flyer points back? .

Hi Oggy, and welcome to AFF.

Could you provide some more information, so that people can give more informed responses? What route were you flying on (eg London-Boston), was the carrier Qantas or someone like British Airways? Which day was your flight on?

Without the additional information, at a guess, I am assuming you're in the UK and flying something like Heathrow-Boston with BA, and that flight has been cancelled. (Or were in Sydney/Melbourne etc, and flying to London, then over), your flight was scheduled for today or tomorrow.

The Qantas re-accommodation policy does say that people on Classic Award tickets can only rebook if frequent flyer seats are available. This should mean that you can cancel and get your points back, so I am a little puzzled what you've been told and what situation you are in.

In a nutshell, what you've been told doesn't sound like what the expected behaviour from Qantas is, so I'm trying to work out what is going on.

 

[samh004]

I note the latest VAAC looks really bad for Europe as a whole (have other European ports now been closed?) and seems to be slowly inching towards North America: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271545732.png

 

[dajop]

I note the latest VAAC looks really bad for Europe as a whole (have other European ports now been closed?) and seems to be slowly inching towards North America: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271545732.png

We've got the RTW in <$1500USD thread, almost time for the getting to Australia from Europe for <$1500 in a volcanish ash cloud thread .....

 

[turtlemichael]

This BBC News article makes interesting reading in relation to KLM and Lufthansa.

"The Netherlands' KLM said one of its planes, a Boeing 737, had reached its maximum operating altitude of about 13km in the skies over the Netherlands, and there had been no problems during the flight.
The aircraft and its engines were being inspected for possible damage. After the results of that technical inspection the airline hopes to get permission from the aviation authorities to start up operations again.
Germany's Lufthansa said it had flown several planes to Frankfurt from Munich.
"All airplanes have been inspected on arrival in Frankfurt but there was no damage to the coughpit windows or fuselage and no impact on the engines," a spokesman said."


BBC News - Volcanic ash spreads more travel misery across Europe

 

[Czardas]

Re: A volcano ate my QF Frequent flyer points

Has anybody else out there just been told that their flight is cancelled due to the volcanic ash issue and they will not be getting their QF frequent flyer points back?

Does this seem in any way equitable? Surely one would expect a sympathetic approach from Qantas under the circumstances, or am I asking too much of them?

I hope this isn't the case as we have F award seats Melbourne to London Sunday week and I have been sweating buckets hoping that all will be ok for us. Qantas website clearly state;
Frequent Flyer Classic Redemption Tickets

Passengers are able to re-book or re-route subject to redemption seat availability only. Additional points/taxes may apply if re-routed.
Normal change fees will not apply.

Can you explain why you think your points have disappeared?

 

[QF WP]

From Business Traveller, Vintage Krug

BA has just announced all flights cancelled on Monday 19 April as well:
https://www.britishairways.com/travel/flightops/public/en_gb?p_faqid=4002

Good to see the Dunkirk spirit prevailing:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1266896/Dan-Snow-launches-Dunkirk-style-mission-rescue-stranded-Britons.html

 

[Oggy]

Re: A volcano ate my QF Frequent flyer points

Hi Oggy, and welcome to AFF.

Could you provide some more information, so that people can give more informed responses? What route were you flying on (eg London-Boston), was the carrier Qantas or someone like British Airways? Which day was your flight on?

Without the additional information, at a guess, I am assuming you're in the UK and flying something like Heathrow-Boston with BA, and that flight has been cancelled. (Or were in Sydney/Melbourne etc, and flying to London, then over), your flight was scheduled for today or tomorrow.

The Qantas re-accommodation policy does say that people on Classic Award tickets can only rebook if frequent flyer seats are available. This should mean that you can cancel and get your points back, so I am a little puzzled what you've been told and what situation you are in.

In a nutshell, what you've been told doesn't sound like what the expected behaviour from Qantas is, so I'm trying to work out what is going on.

Thanks so much for the quick show of interest

Here are the full details - I was using QF points to fly on BA213 LHR-BOS on Sat 17th Apr, returning BA214 BOS-LHR on Tues 18th after the marathon. I made the award booking through the QF website in Dec 2009.

As you can imagine it is nearly impossible to get through to anybody at an airline right now but I did manage to get through to the QF UK frequent flyer number yesterday. I explained the situation to them and was effectively told that I would have to wait for a frequent flyer seat on that route to become available - a very long wait and useless for my purposes, or I would have to cancel, forfeit my FF points and get a refund of taxes.

I suggested a re-booking for next year's event as the organisers are allowing people who can't make the race to defer entry but the guy at QF pointed out that bookings are only valid for a year from the booking date - so no go!

Certainly no suggestion that I could in any way get a refund of FF points, I would love to know whether this sounds like normal practise.

Thx in advance

 

[QF WP]

Oggy, you need to read the T&C's, in particular 14.7 and 14.8 - but I agree with Mal.

 

[dajop]

Re: A volcano ate my QF Frequent flyer points

Here are the full details - I was using QF points to fly on BA213 LHR-BOS on Sat 17th Apr, returning BA214 BOS-LHR on Tues 18th after the marathon. I made the award booking through the QF website in Dec 2009. I explained the situation to them and was effectively told that I would have to wait for a frequent flyer seat on that route to become available - a very long wait and useless for my purposes, or I would have to cancel, forfeit my FF points and get a refund of taxes.

To be honest, I think they have told you the wrong information. Relevant clauses from QFF T&C are:

14.8 Qantas & Partner Classic Awards - tickets cancellation & refunds
14.8.1 Classic Award tickets issued for travel on Qantas, oneworld Alliance Airlines or Airline Partners (other than Jetstar Asia (3K) or Valuair (VF)) or Itinerary confirmations on flights operated by Jetstar Asia (3K) or Valuair (VF) may be submitted for refund and re-credit prior to commencement of travel. Where applicable, only Points that would not have expired will be re-credited. A Cancellation Refund Fee (see the Fee Schedule) will apply.
14.8.2 Once travel has commenced on a Classic Award, the Award is considered used, even if the remaining travel is not completed. Points will not be re-credited to the Member's account for unused ticket coupons.
14.8.3 If a Classic Award is cancelled by the airline and reasonable alternative travel cannot be arranged, Qantas will waive the Cancellation Refund Fee on any Classic Award submitted for refund and will re-credit the applicable number of Points.

I think either 14.8.1 applies - i.e. submit for refund prior to travel, as you haven't actually travelled, and QF have indicated a policy of waiving service fees OR 14.8.3 applies as the have not arranged "reasonable alternative travel"

 

[Bundy Bear]

Re: A volcano ate my QF Frequent flyer points

Thanks so much for the quick show of interest

Here are the full details - I was using QF points to fly on BA213 LHR-BOS on Sat 17th Apr, returning BA214 BOS-LHR on Tues 18th after the marathon. I made the award booking through the QF website in Dec 2009.

As you can imagine it is nearly impossible to get through to anybody at an airline right now but I did manage to get through to the QF UK frequent flyer number yesterday. I explained the situation to them and was effectively told that I would have to wait for a frequent flyer seat on that route to become available - a very long wait and useless for my purposes, or I would have to cancel, forfeit my FF points and get a refund of taxes.

I suggested a re-booking for next year's event as the organisers are allowing people who can't make the race to defer entry but the guy at QF pointed out that bookings are only valid for a year from the booking date - so no go!

Certainly no suggestion that I could in any way get a refund of FF points, I would love to know whether this sounds like normal practise.

Thx in advance

The booking page will not let you book more than a year in advance, so they should just refund the points and the taxes. The refund credit for the taxes might take a few weeks though.