Article: The Fate of "Second" Airports Far from the City Centre

[Doddler]

The owners and major operators out of Kingsford Smith have a lot of political sway, which will make things more difficult for WSI. Putting that aside, I guess it comes down to the economics of airport users:
Business travellers: clearly Kingsford Smith has a lock on this group
Freight: WSI benefits here
Domestic Local: 50-50 on this
Domestic Incoming tourists: Kingsford Smith clear advantage
Domestic Connections: Advantage to whichever airport has more connecting flights
International Incoming Tourists: Kingsford Smith clear advantage
International Outgoing Tourists: Maybe WSI, but only if a good selection of RTN tickets to fly into Kingsford Smith and connecting out of WSI
Low cost carriers: WSI?

Seems like a mountain of challenges for WSI, mainly because Sydney is such a major tourist attraction itself, rather than simply a gateway to Australia.

 

[Forg]

Kangaroos highly unlikely!

Sportsball teams aside …

I live in Windsor and to drive to Kingsford Smith is 1 hour its 49 mins to WSI, Public transport is 1h33m to KS 1h49m to WSI. KS i have to change at Central, WSI I have to change at Blacktown and then bus from St Marys. Hopefully they will link up to the Metro at Tullawong and provide more options.

From memory it’s about $25 each-way for tolls to get to SYD; what’s that part like for WSI?

 

[outthere1000]

Montreal Mirabel was a make-work project feeding substantial federal funds into the province to keep Quebeckers happy (and hopefully separatists at bay). It was the international airport, which meant that connecting to a domestic flight involved an interminable bus trip from there to Dorval (over an hour, as I recall it). In the end it was deemed too impractical, and Mirabel was turned into a freight-only facility.

 

[LDN via BNE]

via a surface walk

Not anymore - the two lines are linked via a pedestrian tunnel (though it is still quite a trek).

 

[RooFlyer]

Not anymore - the two lines are linked via a pedestrian tunnel (though it is still quite a trek).

Great to hear! But why they terminated the new airport line where they did is a mystery to me.

 

[NickCorr]

Forced closures like IST and HKG are obviously guaranteed to work.

NRT somewhere in the middle, as they've gradually allowed more international flights at HND but only well after NT established itself.. and the limo bus is generally still the best way between them.

Also for PVG, the Maglev doesn't exactly go into the city, Indeed if you have a big wait, and adding transfers, you probably would have been better on Line 2 all the way.

Completely agree Limo Bus direct from NRT to Tokyo Dome in both directions has been great service and convenience.

Have ridden the Maglev to PVG many times, but note, only to PVG... If I am travelling to Pudong from PVG then usually I will get ride service arranged by collegue.

 

[moa999]

But why they terminated the new airport line where they did is a mystery to me.

It's possibly expanded since then.. Now a 69km line that could also be called an orbital line on the European side and connects to multiple lines.

M11 (Istanbul Metro) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Noting that airports are typically as much for locals as tourists and lots of people travelling to / from home.

 

[Warks]

Driving I'm equidistant (almost) from both airports. But the fact I can take the train (one hour only) to SYD and can only drive to WSI makes it a no brainer for me. An exceptionally cheap airfare ex WSI might get me there but unlikely. Not sure of the parking cost, if that were cheap enough it could also be worth it. A work in progress I think.

 

[moa999]

WSI parking is currently and I expect for a while aot cheaper than SYD.

 

[Snowant]

It won't fail, unless they do something asininely stupid, like the story about NLU. If passengers have workable options to get to and from, they will use WSI. For cargo-specific flights, you'd figure it was more attractive than SYD. Less congestion, easier to get trucks to/from.

The extortionate train ride to/from Sydney airport is an interesting case study, good idea at the time etc, but! The years go by, the price goes up, and things change.

I've been commuting from CBR weekly to SYD for cancer treatment, so arranging my own travel for once. Used to fly a lot corporately, with a nice cabcharge card.
Now I have to get from SYD to Macquarie Uni Hospital, and then back again. Usually in a day.
Thank god for the metro, and if there was an easy/quick way to get to Sydenham, it would be a seamless journey indeed, at present it's a airport or mascot to Central wiggle, then the Metro.

An interesting thing I'm seeing is how many passengers are finding out about the ridiculous @ $20 train fares, and going to some trouble to use the alternative. There's no defined airport-CBD bus, I guess the $train was to fulfill that role.

So, passengers in considerable numbers are finding the city bus stops (hidden outside the QF terminal at SYD domestic, if you're on virgin or the others, you have to cross the central car parking area and the signs are not good), and catching bus 420 or bus 350 to Mascot. Finding one's way from/to Mascot train station is not easy the first time as the bus stops are in Coward St and Mascot Station isn't.

But the buses that visit the international terminal first are packed solid with people with giant suitcases!

Transport options to/from are vital. When the WSI gets the metro, watch it boom. And the year leading up to that is a good time for it to iron out any wrinkles, get things running smoothly.

The snippet about Singapore airlines is interesting. This was the dream of the guy who bought CBR off the government decades ago. No curfew. Bring the jumbos in from Singapore at 2am, process them in Canberra, and load them onto the Fast Rail that was looking hopeful back then. They'd be in Sydney as or before the Sydney curfew lifted.
Same with freight, bring in freight all night, load contents onto the fast train.

I'm glad that one's fallen through. They can't route all night planes over surrounding areas of NSW for ever.

 

[serfty]

There's no defined airport-CBD bus, I guess the $train was to fulfill that role.

Sort of chicken and egg here - which came first. There were public bus services between the airport and the CBD/Circular Quay as well as the airport and Southern CBD/Kings Cross. These were phased out in 2003; it was said as they were not being patronised, but some believe this was to encourage punters to use the expensive new train service. Bus route numbers were 300 and 350 respectively.

I used these buses during my regular SYD commutes of the later 90's.

 

[dajop]

The owners and major operators out of Kingsford Smith have a lot of political sway, which will make things more difficult for WSI. Putting that aside, I guess it comes down to the economics of airport users:
Business travellers: clearly Kingsford Smith has a lock on this group
Freight: WSI benefits here
Domestic Local: 50-50 on this
Domestic Incoming tourists: Kingsford Smith clear advantage
Domestic Connections: Advantage to whichever airport has more connecting flights
International Incoming Tourists: Kingsford Smith clear advantage
International Outgoing Tourists: Maybe WSI, but only if a good selection of RTN tickets to fly into Kingsford Smith and connecting out of WSI
Low cost carriers: WSI?

Seems like a mountain of challenges for WSI, mainly because Sydney is such a major tourist attraction itself, rather than simply a gateway to Australia.

You’re missing one key item on the plus ledger for WSI - lack of curfew. Limited value domestically but certainly a plus for international traffic - which is why SQ have jumped on it to feed their morning departure bank from SIN, and why QR will start services this time next year.