Middle East Airspace Diversions/Cancellations

[JessicaTam]

Question - does this (EU261) apply if it’s MEL to DOH to FRA? Or only the other way around?

Only if you are flying with an EU based carrier. Which of course there are none on that route. If you flew with QF on, say, SYD-SIN-LHR you would not be covered but on BA you would be.

 

[Noonan53]

Welcome @Noonan53 to AFF!!!

Probably best to not have a separate thread on this. It is already discussed in the Middle East Airspace Diversions/Cancellations thread. From about page 24 onwards will be about right for you to be able to get most of what you need.

Have you considered flying with the Japanese airlines - JL and NH who will get you to Europe via the North ofCanada and via Greenland?.
But check out that thread rather than replying here.

thanks, yes new, how do i find page 24 on that thread?

 

[MELso]

Cathay jacking up fuel surcharges from 18 March. https://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_HK/latest-news/other-news/fuel-surcharge-updates.html

 

[Noonan53]

Welcome @Noonan53 to AFF!!!

Probably best to not have a separate thread on this. It is already discussed in the Middle East Airspace Diversions/Cancellations thread. From about page 24 onwards will be about right for you to be able to get most of what you need.

Have you considered flying with the Japanese airlines - JL and NH who will get you to Europe via the North ofCanada and via Greenland?.
But check out that thread rather than replying here.

ps thanks for welcome and advice, we ended up booking with FinnAir using their non Doha connections e.g. Singapore and Hong Kong

 

[Seat0B]

thanks, yes new, how do i find page 24 on that thread?

Look at the bottom left and you will see the page numbers. Use the forward/back arrows to get where you want to be. I’ve circled it in red.

 

[elanshin]

But that doesn't actually seem to be the case. EK and EY are pressing on regardless, so that they and their masters can say all is normal, please fly with us and come to our country. I really do hope that this myth isn't rudely exposed by loss of life of airline pax.

I'd hardly call all is normal right now.

At best EK pushed to just over half of normal and it shrinks and pushes forward again etc.

That alone is a huge disruption. Half the capacity in the middle east means hundreds of thousands of pax per day needing to be cancelled/fixed and thats more than enough damage.

 

[I love to travel]

Not political - but I do wonder when the UAE airlines are going to try and use their governments to end this, Or put another way, when is the $$ going to start influencing what actions are taken. Imagine if QF or ANZ were losing this much money?

 

[Quickstatus]

just noted they are doing 24-48 hours before flights

Sure, but it's war - the crystal ball gets very foggy. Of course they are trying to hold onto cash for as long as possible too.

Saudi Arabia make you take out local medical insurance when you get a visa. Inexpensive - A$35.

That's less than processing costs

 

[Tiki]

@Tiki typically when you have a medical episode overseas the insurer will authorize minimal treatment for the most emergent issues and once stable then look to repatriate you for anything that can wait to be done back in Aus including rehab.

If you can be repatriated but can be medivaced a shorter distance the insurer can also direct you to be treated somewhere else where the costs are more favourable for them.

A friends husband broke his leg very badly skiing in Switzerland, his insurer had him flown to France by chopper where it was much less expensive to have his leg set (he required surgery and multiple pins) even including the helicopter evac than it would have been to receive same treatment in Switzerland. Then once he was cleared to fly he came home in J, and follow-up revisions and rehab were done here (not covered by TI, just Medicare and his usual health insurance).

Insurer cant reliably move or repatriate someone from a war zone, so best to avoid transiting volatile areas when there are other more stable options.

It just really infuriated me that certain pollies put the home countries of the ME3 on DNT. Reconsider your need with bright red warnings on the page would have sufficed. No one else is going there anyways if the planes aren't flying. Thousands of Aussies used the ME3 to get to Europe and Africa and have innocently been stranded until they could find a flight out. This could happen to any of us, it would have happened to me if the war was one month later as my return was on QR. And then if they have a medical emergency not war related through no fault of their own, they could find themselves $100,000's in debt if the insurance doesn't pay. If I had to I could manage a $5000 ticket on SQ or whatever to escape, I have enough credit cards. But I couldn't handle paying out of pocket for emergency medical care and that is why I buy travel insurance.

 

[RooFlyer]

Farcical to be running so few flights yet still sticking to March 22 as the farthest out pax can cancel.

Sorry, may have been noted since you posted - but I was just on QR site looking at prices later this year and I see that their cancel-for-refund is now 28 March. (Content of this link will change over time)

The quickest way to manage your booking is online or on our app. If you have a confirmed booking with a travel date between 28 February and 28 March 2026, you're eligible for a refund or date changes.

Complimentary date changes to a new travel date up to 30 April 2026, or
A refund of the unused value of your ticket.
We are experiencing high call volumes, so wait times may be longer than usual. Please only contact us if you’re travelling within the next 48 hours.

As I said upthread, I would call irrespective of when my flight was, if I wanted to cancel now - but I would hold off until I had to.

 

[Quickstatus]

It just really infuriated me that certain pollies put the home countries of the ME3 on DNT

What would you have then do?.

This could happen to any of us, it would have happened to me if the war was one month later as my return was on QR. And then if they have a medical emergency not war related through no fault of their own,

I had another look at the wording of my TI PDS

General exclusions wording (pertinent sections)

Exclusions that apply to all sections of the Policy​

To the extent permitted by law, we will not pay under any circumstances if your claim arises from, is related to, or associated with:

3. Known circumstances​

1. Being aware of something that would give rise to you making a claim under this policy at the time of purchasing or amending the policy.
2. Arranging to travel when you know of circumstances that may lead to your journey being cancelled or disrupted.
3. Intended or planned surgery, treatment, investigation, or procedure, or for any yet to be diagnosed conditions.

13. Travel warnings​

Travelling to, planning to travel to, or choosing to remain in a country, region, or part of a country for which:

1. an advice or warning has been released by the Australian Government Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (see https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/) or any other government or official body, or
2. the advice or warning risk rating is ‘Do Not Travel’ or advises against specific transport arrangements or participation in specific events or activities, unless a Government exemption from the Department of Home Affairs has been granted; or
3. a reasonable person in your position should be aware of the existence of circumstances (including, but not limited to circumstances referred to in this section (a) and (b) that may affect your travel; or
4. you did not take appropriate action to avoid or minimize any potential claim under your policy (including any delay of travel to the country or part of the country referred to in the relevant advice(s) or warnings.

The circumstances to which this exclusion applies, include but are not limited to civil protest or unrest, contagious disease (including an Epidemic or Pandemic), riot, strike, or weather event.

20. Acts of war or violence​

1. Biological and/or chemical compounds, materials, substances, or the like used directly or indirectly for the purpose to harm or to destroy human life and/or create public fear.
2. Nuclear reaction or contamination from nuclear weapons or radioactivity.
3. Any act of war, whether war is declared or not, or any actions of a foreign enemy, civil war, hostilities, insurrection, invasion, rebellion, revolution or taking of power by the military.

Based on above I'm beginning to think that a claim under the policy for medical expenses may not be a claim relating to travel advisory, known circumstances or acts of war - unless the medical emergency was due to an Act of war.

 

[Berlin]

So this is why Qatar is canceling flights 24-48 hours out so they don’t have to help before?

This whole thing has been an eye opener for future bookings be it with travel insurance, booking agent vs operating carrier and the level of assistance airlines have offered to their customers.

Luckily, my eyes regarding Qatar had been opened over the past two or three years already: I hear similar about Turkish (but have not been affected personally by it) but Qatar is extremely awful in cases anything goes badly. Even some normal delays or equipment swaps-QR usually guarantees you having huge issues.

And I’m only flying on fully self paid J tickets. Don’t even want to know what airlines like that do to Eco passengers. For me, my recent QR experiences led me to book my annual flight to Europe on Cathay this time. And gosh, am I counting my lucky stars! Yes, that Q-suite and the choice of two different champagnes in J is nice but dear oh me, getting stuck in Doha for just ten hours with the most clueless, non empowered staff is a nightmare even in “peace” times. I can only imagine what people go through stuck there right now. Give me Emirates or (I hear) Etihad any day over it. Or any of the Asian airlines.

And I actually LIKE stopovers in the Middle East, especially the UAE.

 

[SCM]

Can you use wifi calling via your Aussie sim?

I tried both AU and NL numbers, in both cases I got a telstra message that I don't have credit (ie. roaming pack).

Duty of care also kicks in. However, the duty of care only applies while you’re waiting for the re-route at the earliest opportunity. You can’t voluntarily take a flight a week later and expect the airline to pay for accommodation and meals.

But how can I be waiting for a re-route if I can't even get through to Qatar? I don't want to be homeless while overseas (or in general for that matter), at some point surely you have to book accommodation?

----

I read somewhere in this thread, phone call waiting times are long and there are messages to use live chat, but live chat on the website and app still either don't work for me, or it says the opposite to call. Again, I'm not sure how I can call, even my hotel reception doesn't have a phone (most hotels here are quite smal). I am contemplating trying to find some oldschool voip service or something, I had a lot at Telstra's international packs, but even the most expensive one is only 60 minutes - which I may well just spend in the queue, not really going to work.

Meanwhile QR keep emailing me about "flexible booking manage on the app", but the cancelled segment of my journey home is not even there, and it says cannot be managed, call them. I'm not sure what they expect customers to do here, probably trying to skirt their obligations here and coerce people to cancel bookings so they don't have to deal with anything and not pay for the rerouted flights.

Edit: I just used a friend's phone to call their Dutch number, straight away there was an auto-response saying the lines are too busy and hang-up.

 

[DC3]

Million‑dollar question: Would you book two Emirates J reward seats (LIS → DBX→ SYD) on 3 June?

Pros: The origin location and date are exactly what I need.
Cons: War

What’s the worst that can happen? As long as you are happy with that.

 

[N860CR]

Luckily, my eyes regarding Qatar had been opened over the past two or three years already: I hear similar about Turkish (but have not been affected personally by it) but Qatar is extremely awful in cases anything goes badly. Even some normal delays or equipment swaps-QR usually guarantees you having huge issues.

Customer service in Qatar is generally awful. Certainly the worst I’ve crossed anywhere in the world. And it’s endemic across all industries. Just now I’m sitting in a Bank in Doha with about a hundred other customers. Been here for an hour… just to pickup a replacement credit card. People in this country seem to have an incredible tolerance for awful service.

 

[dajop]

Flying on SQ in just over a week SIN-LHR out of curiosity looked at loadings that day and ended up looking at the whole next two weeks. Across the three carriers - l managed to see 12 seats available on the 98 flights. So about 1 seat on every eighth flight.

Edit: I forgot the other daily flight to London - LGW. So we can now make it 13 seats showing as available on the 112 flights.

 

[Noah Count]

I have not read all the posts as there is just to many. I have made in back to AU, was it expensive, frankly yes. Do I think I will get any reimbursement from my TI or EU261, most likely not but I will give it a go. We are expecting to head back to the UK/EU in around 2 months, I have a points balance that enabled me to book back up flights with QF and hate to say it using points+ and in Y. In our situation we can live with this and closer to the day we may just give up the EK F and QR J flights we were planning on.

I have been travelling for years and the phrase 'I never thought it would happen to me' sprang to mind but it did. I am fortunate enough to have the funds to get me back home. To add 'insult to injury' I was pick pocketed in London and lost all my credit cards. At least it was on the last day of travel and I always travel with local cash and a back up of USD for the 'just in case' fund in my passport wallet which was locked in bag and at the hotel. The back up fund came in handy to get to LHR and the taxi back home on arrival into AU, FX rates may have been sub par but 'it is what it is'.

Edit: MrsN commented this is the trip that just keeps on giving and giving, I am sure we will laugh about it at some point in the future. cough happens.

 

[Rembrandt]

I wonder if the airlines are seriously looking at shuffling their bases away "temporarily".

I have no doubt the ME3 have been working on contingency plans if this war goes into the long term. However, doing that in the short term isn't worth the gamble, especially as Trump could pull the pin on this at any moment and declare victory. There is just too much uncertainty at the moment.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I tried both AU and NL numbers, in both cases I got a telstra message that I don't have credit (ie. roaming pack).



But how can I be waiting for a re-route if I can't even get through to Qatar? I don't want to be homeless while overseas (or in general for that matter), at some point surely you have to book accommodation?

----

I read somewhere in this thread, phone call waiting times are long and there are messages to use live chat, but live chat on the website and app still either don't work for me, or it says the opposite to call. Again, I'm not sure how I can call, even my hotel reception doesn't have a phone (most hotels here are quite smal). I am contemplating trying to find some oldschool voip service or something, I had a lot at Telstra's international packs, but even the most expensive one is only 60 minutes - which I may well just spend in the queue, not really going to work.

Meanwhile QR keep emailing me about "flexible booking manage on the app", but the cancelled segment of my journey home is not even there, and it says cannot be managed, call them. I'm not sure what they expect customers to do here, probably trying to skirt their obligations here and coerce people to cancel bookings so they don't have to deal with anything and not pay for the rerouted flights.

Edit: I just used a friend's phone to call their Dutch number, straight away there was an auto-response saying the lines are too busy and hang-up.

From reading other forums there seem to be a couple of issues.

(a) actually getting on to the phone queue. Many people are ringing but the lines are so jammed you can’t get in to the queue. Solution: redial, repeatedly, until you get accepted. Once accepted it could take an hour or so on hold.
(b) same issue with chat… there’s apparently a countdown timer that starts at 10 or 20 minutes, works it’s way down to 5 minutes, then resets to 20. Solution: if you don’t get connected with a chat agent immediately, disconnect and reconnect. Continue doing this until an agent answers your chat (almost immediately). You might need to do this 50 times in rapid succession.

Even once you get through, people are reporting inconsistencies with the application of re-routing between different agents. Some agents are pushing back, others are offering re-routings freely, even allowing pax to nominate their preferred carriers (rather than the ones QR is offering). If you get one of the former agents, you need to hang up and call again.

Perhaps even try and find a QR rep at an airport on the day before, or on the day of, your originally scheduled flight… if QR is operating to that port.

Failing all that, have your attempts to contact QR documented, with screenshots saying ‘we are proactively contacting passengers’ (do they have a number for you?). Buy a replacement ticket back to Australia and put in a claim on your return. The latter I think is risky, but if you had to buy a ticket anyway, you might as well thr and claim it. I’d probably be choosing a ticket that I could live with the cost if the claim was unsuccessful.

At some point you would need to buy accommodation… but it should only be for a night or two until the replacement flight. That would start from the day your original flight was cancelled. Fares from europe back to AU for same day departures, avoiding the ME are $3000-$4000 in economy. But just a couple of days later those fall to $1900 for one-stop flights (for example Asiana), or even sub-$1000 for longer routes connecting via India.

 

[LCC]

It’s a war. In the absence of specified consumer law, which arguably the EU goes too far, it’s something completely out of the airline’s control. Neither of you can fly the route: force majeure. Why should the airline be on the hook for thousands of dollars for something out of their control?

Just on the EU/UK261, there seems to be some confusion as to how the rights are enforced. There is no ‘fight’ involved… you don’t have to go to court or file papers. It’s just mentioning your rights under the applicable law.

Thinking about it perhaps it’s not unreasonable? Call centre agents are going to dealing with tens of thousands of passengers, worldwide. Are they necessarily going to be across the consumer laws for every country? That’s where the passenger reminding them gets the results.

Should passengers be confused? We spend tens of hours researching our trips, reading reviews, selecting seats together, maximising FF benefits, even setting alarms for T-96 or T-80 to secure bulkhead seats or row 4. Is it unreasonable to spend 10 minutes to read your consumer rights? Or spend an hour getting through to the airline?

Goodness, you have been very fortunate indeed with your current experience of only waiting an hour to get through to Qatar, I assume you are a premium tier member. Certainly in Spain yesterday there was no response despite the several hours I tried to get through on chat and stories posted on Flyertalk of one poor soul being on phone hold for 17 hours. Others trying different phone numbers and language options in attempts to get through. GIven the increasing tranches of flights Qatar are having to cancel I think they are now just totally overwhelmed over here in Europe but maybe things are different for contacting them locally back in oz at the moment