Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[Daver6]

I think the fact the wellness zone in the new Perth lounge has already been dumped tells you how much of a gimmick all the Qantas focus on wellbeing really is!

They needed the space for more seating not because it was a gimmick. When the lounge was originally opened there was a single flight a day using it. Now there are multiple with some overlapping, hence the space requirement.

The Perth transit lounge is a disaster full stop. It's a dungeon with a skylight. When you're about to spend 16 hours on a plane, descending into the QF dungeon doesn't really enhance your feeling of well-being.

I don't mind it. Especially for day time departures when the roof is open. It feels light and airy. I could see how it might seem a bit dark for QF9 departures in winter.

For an international QF J lounge, its certainly one of the better, if not best. Especially in terms of food on offer, IMHO.

 

[mel-world]

I admit I have not read all 72 pages of this thread so apologies if this has been discussed earlier. My comments are just as applicable to other ULH flights.

I'm really concerned about the short and long-term threat to the well-being of the crew on the Project Sunrise flights. Has QF released any details about how they will crew these flight. Even using the shortest flight time (22 hours) plus minimal pre- and post crew call times, the crew would have to be rostered for 24 hours.

Does anyone know if there will only be 4 flight crew and a normal number of cabin crew? How much rest time will be allocated? I recognise there are designated rest areas on the plane but will the breaks be long enough for a proper sleep - I know how badly I rest on planes, even in Business.

How many days will be allowed to recover at the turnaround city before another 24 hour shift back to AUS?

I'd be concerned if there was an emergency or diversion just prior to landing. How alert will the crew be?

Ok, I am probably being over cautious but I have not seen much reporting on this issue.

 

[DC3]

I'd be concerned if there was an emergency or diversion just prior to landing. How alert will the crew be?

Perhaps those Project Sunrise flights wlll not be a good idea for you.

 

[RSD]

Exactly. In other words, a gimmick for marketing, but in reality, people don't want to do yoga in a lounge.

What is yoga?

 

[RSD]

A question that has just occured to me - if the Muddle East turns into a big prolonged war and airspace becomes unsafe from say southern Israel in a line through Syria and Iraq to northwest Iran then will Sunrise still be doable while avoiding the airspace of those four countries?

 

[dajop]

A question that has just occured to me - if the Muddle East turns into a big prolonged war and airspace becomes unsafe from say southern Israel in a line through Syria and Iraq to northwest Iran then will Sunrise still be doable while avoiding the airspace of those four countries?

Not sure where the most advantageous flight path (with respect to "headwinds" and "tailwinds" are, but the great circle route SYD-LHR passes over China (Chengdu), Kazakhstan, Russia (which obviously is out of the question), whilst MEL-LHR passes over Bangkok, Nepal, various Stans, Russia.

One assumes QF has factored this in planning. Whilst QF9/10 does travel over the ME due to PER's location, it's entirely possible that Sunrise routes could use a flightpath akin to QF 1/2 which "threads the needle" above the northern Iranian border. (if you plot SYD-Ashgabat-Baku-Bucharest-LHR, which converges onto QF1/2 flight path, it is about 200mi longer than great circle, if you plot SYD-DXB-LHR, which converges onto the QF9/10 flight path, it's about 325mi longer than great circle).

 

[RSD]

Not sure where the most advantageous flight path (with respect to "headwinds" and "tailwinds" are, but the great circle route SYD-LHR passes over China (Chengdu), Kazakhstan, Russia (which obviously is out of the question), whilst MEL-LHR passes over Bangkok, Nepal, various Stans, Russia.

One assumes QF has factored this in planning. Whilst QF9/10 does travel over the ME due to PER's location, it's entirely possible that Sunrise routes could use a flightpath akin to QF 1/2 which "threads the needle" above the northern Iranian border. (if you plot SYD-Ashgabat-Baku-Bucharest-LHR, which converges onto QF1/2 flight path, it is about 200mi longer than great circle, if you plot SYD-DXB-LHR, which converges onto the QF9/10 flight path, it's about 325mi longer than great circle).

OK they might still be able to work. Hopefully everyone involved in trying to turn the Muddle East into a fireball will have a Bex and calm down - or in America's case wiser heads will prevail and they will realise that they really shouldn't get involved.

 

[dajop]

OK they might still be able to work. Hopefully everyone involved in trying to turn the Muddle East into a fireball will have a Bex and calm down - or in America's case wiser heads will prevail and they will realise that they really shouldn't get involved.

If you look at a globe rather than a flat map, it's surprising how little variation there is between the different potential options.

I even wonder, if for the SYD-LHR direction, whether a easterly polar route over Alaska would be part of the planning and considered with the right conditions. (adds 1100 miles, but travelling easterly can be much quicker in the right conditions).

You can see the difference east vs west makes, take, for example SYD-YVR-LHR vs SYD-SIN-LHR. Adding up the two sectors, the actual flying time via YVR is not that different (typically 30 mins longer), and you can find dates where via YVR was even slightly quicker (say 22nd, 20 mins quicker compared to QF1), despite being 1800 miles longer.

 

[elanshin]

A question that has just occured to me - if the Muddle East turns into a big prolonged war and airspace becomes unsafe from say southern Israel in a line through Syria and Iraq to northwest Iran then will Sunrise still be doable while avoiding the airspace of those four countries?

If you look at a globe rather than a flat map, it's surprising how little variation there is between the different potential options.

I even wonder, if for the SYD-LHR direction, whether a easterly polar route over Alaska would be part of the planning and considered with the right conditions. (adds 1100 miles, but travelling easterly can be much quicker in the right conditions).

You can see the difference east vs west makes, take, for example SYD-YVR-LHR vs SYD-SIN-LHR. Adding up the two sectors, the actual flying time via YVR is not that different (typically 30 mins longer), and you can find dates where via YVR was even slightly quicker (say 22nd, 20 mins quicker compared to QF1), despite being 1800 miles longer.

Depending on the winds of the day, it was always possible as a plan to fly over Alaska eastbound and the polar route. If they need to fly westbound and there was serious conflict I wouldn't be surprised if they chose to use a technical SIN stop for refuelling, possibly without even offloading PAX.

 

[dajop]

Depending on the winds of the day, it was always possible as a plan to fly over Alaska eastbound and the polar route. If they need to fly westbound and there was serious conflict I wouldn't be surprised if they chose to use a technical SIN stop for refuelling, possibly without even offloading PAX.

Not exactly sure what a technical stop in SIN would do though (in relation to ME conflict anyway) as both Sunrise and SIN-LHR routes have to really converge on threading the needle through the Stans/Azerbaijan/Georgia. If that route is closed, that makes SIN-LHR quite challenging, maybe needing a southerly detour - in which case a PER refuelling stop and route over Africa could be better for sunrise.

In the unlikely event Ukraine/Russia situation is resolved and Russian airspace was available again, then that would open up better options.

 

[elanshin]

Not exactly sure what a technical stop in SIN would do though (in relation to ME conflict anyway) as both Sunrise and SIN-LHR routes have to really converge on threading the needle through the Stans/Azerbaijan/Georgia. If that route is closed, that makes SIN-LHR quite challenging, maybe needing a southerly detour - in which case a PER refuelling stop and route over Africa could be better for sunrise.

In the unlikely event Ukraine/Russia situation is resolved and Russian airspace was available again, then that would open up better options.

It would give it more than enough fuel and range to fly south to avoid the conflict. The distance of PER-LHR is still quite long and challenging, you might as well use SIN instead and shave off a bunch of miles that needs to be flown.

If the route that EVERYONE is flying is closed, theres bigger problems than just sunrise flights. We'll see a whole host of routes from Europe to Asia suddenly become on the extreme side of distances or not possible if everyone neess to detour rhat far south.

 

[dajop]

If the route that EVERYONE is flying is closed, theres bigger problems than just sunrise flights. We'll see a whole host of routes from Europe to Asia suddenly become on the extreme side of distances or not possible if everyone neess to detour rhat far south.

Yes, if you close the Stans/Georgia/Azerbaijan flight path and DXB/AUH/DOH are all no go areas, you need the Red Sea. But probably the bigger problem will be demand for travel falling off a cliff if things are that dire.