Article: Qantas Will Improve Reward Flight Downgrade Compensation

[Jacques Vert]

The next flight with U availability could be weeks or months away!

I'm retired so that might suit me...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The next flight with U availability could be weeks or months away!

Downgrades are usually an issue on the day of departure. In that case it won’t be U availability, it will be the next available business class seat. For someone like VA that could be an issue given their small J class cabins, but for Qantas there’s a much better chance given the frequency of service and cabin sizes. International you just need one person not to turn up.

 

[danmate]

Another example of involuntary downgrade I have with nil comp from QF. I booked rewards seats for 2 of us in J MEL SYD MNL. The option for JQ J on an international sector from MEL to SYD suited me as we wouldn't need to change terminals in SYD between flights. The JQ13 flight no longer starts in MEL & they put us on a regular JQ flight MEL SYD on A320 so obviously no J class. Answer from QF is basically tough luck!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Another example of involuntary downgrade I have with nil comp from QF. I booked rewards seats for 2 of us in J MEL SYD MNL. The option for JQ J on an international sector from MEL to SYD suited me as we wouldn't need to change terminals in SYD between flights. The JQ13 flight no longer starts in MEL & they put us on a regular JQ flight MEL SYD on A320 so obviously no J class. Answer from QF is basically tough luck!

That is mean. However, a good example of where the coupon for that sector may have little or no value.

The biggest thing I think you have to worry about - if applicable - is the cabin baggage allowance. They’ll weigh it strictly at 7kg. I’d push for a QF flight, if not and if you might be over 7kg, check to see what they can go for your extra allowance.

 

[LoaderTosh]

“… 75% of the ticketed coupon value …”. I see ‘weasel words’ here. What is a ticketed coupons ‘value’? The price I paid for it 12 months ago? The price it sold for on the day of my flight? The price it peaked at during the last school holidays?

I recently had two Air NZ business fares, from an NZ provincial city to MEL return, cancelled at the last moment due ‘a/c unserviceable’. Ended up flying down (way … down) to CHC then Econ to MEL. The refund of the fare difference was virtual instantaneous, but the irritation was mainly the loss of ALL Business privileges; increased baggage allowance (which we weren’t using) and lounge access, both of which Air NZ could have left in place at virtually no cost to them, as a goodwill gesture.

I sometimes wonder at the ‘nous’ of highly paid (?) Customer Service management personnel who don’t appear to be able to ‘see the wood for the trees’ in these often occurring situations.

 

[justinbrett]

Another example of involuntary downgrade I have with nil comp from QF. I booked rewards seats for 2 of us in J MEL SYD MNL. The option for JQ J on an international sector from MEL to SYD suited me as we wouldn't need to change terminals in SYD between flights. The JQ13 flight no longer starts in MEL & they put us on a regular JQ flight MEL SYD on A320 so obviously no J class. Answer from QF is basically tough luck!

I think this is one of those times QF and JQ play the “we’re totally separate airlines” card, and as it was JQ that cancelled its their responsibility to rebook you.

Stay away from JQ I guess is the takeaway.

That is mean. However, a good example of where the coupon for that sector may have little or no value.

The biggest thing I think you have to worry about - if applicable - is the cabin baggage allowance. They’ll weigh it strictly at 7kg. I’d push for a QF flight, if not and if you might be over 7kg, check to see what they can go for your extra allowance.

I’d say the bigger issue is that bags won’t be connected in SYD and you’re ineligible for the transfer service (albeit there’s questions whether that’s running at the moment).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

“… 75% of the ticketed coupon value …”. I see ‘weasel words’ here. What is a ticketed coupons ‘value’? The price I paid for it 12 months ago? The price it sold for on the day of my flight? The price it peaked at during the last school holidays?

There’s no weasel words there. It’s a question of fact. The coupon value is the value you paid for it. If you paid $1000, that’s the coupon value.

It becomes tricky where you might have a short domestic connector which will still have a value, but might have been included in the fare for no extra charge.

The coupon value is pretty standard terminology, no hidden catches.

 

[serfty]

The coupon value is pretty standard terminology, no hidden catches.

One does not pay for a coupon. One buys an airfare which is comprised of one or more segments.

Here I believe "Coupon Value" relates to a segment of a booking. While "Coupon" is a legacy term, it is still used and has that broad meaning.

Think back to the days of paper tickets which were in the form of ticket booklets. The following is how I remember/experienced it.

Each ticket booklet had four coupons. Each booklet would have its own ticket number. A coupon had it's own reference being the booklet's ticket number with a coupon number. (e.g. 160-9876543210-4 might refer to the fourth coupon of booklet number 160-9876543210).

Among other information recorded on each coupon would be Scheduled Date, Origin, Destination, flight number and fare Bucket.

When ticketing, one coupon would be used for each segment in the booking. When less than four coupons in a booklet were needed, unused coupons were removed and cancelled during this ticketing process. If a booking had more than four segments, additional booklets would be used as required - each additional booklet's ticket number would be documented as being issued "in conjunction" (or similar) with the ticket number of the first booklet.

Note - a ticketed coupon could be quite valuable to the PAX/Airline - being used for charge backs, refunds etc. Woe betide any PAX who pulled a coupon from a booklet.

A simple return, say MEL-SYD-MEL, would use two coupons with the remaining two discarded.

Two decades ago I was issued a 20 segment booking (DONE4) comprising five such booklets stapled together.

Relevant coupons for each segment (and transit related segment) would be pulled from the booklet upon check in.

A Ticket Revalidation was performed by placing a special sticker with new flight details over that of the original flight.

A Ticket Reissue was done by replacing an entire set of one or more booklets with a new set of booklets.

 

[DAC1]

Downgrades are usually an issue on the day of departure. In that case it won’t be U availability, it will be the next available business class seat. For someone like VA that could be an issue given their small J class cabins, but for Qantas there’s a much better chance given the frequency of service and cabin sizes. International you just need one person not to turn up.

Three years ago I was booked QF J SYD-LAX on a CR. Got downgraded to PE at checkin. Pushed back and ended up being rebooked on DL J SYD-LAX which left around the same time.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

One does not pay for a coupon. One buys an airfare which is comprised of one or more segments.

Here I believe "Coupon Value" relates to a segment of a booking. While a legacy term, it is still used and has that broad meaning.

Think back to the days of paper tickets which were in the form of ticket booklets. The following is how I remember/experienced it.

Each ticket booklet had four coupons. Each booklet would have its own ticket number. Among other information recorded on each coupon would be Scheduled Date, Origin, Destination, flight number and fare Bucket.

When ticketing, one coupon would be used for each segment in the booking. When less than four coupons were needed, unused coupons were removed and cancelled during this ticketing process. If a booking had more than four segments, additional booklets would be used as required - each additional booklet's ticket number would be documented as being issued "in conjunction" (or similar) with the ticket number of the first booklet.

A coupon had it's own reference being the booklet's ticket number with a coupon number. (e.g. 160-9876543210-4 might refer to the fourth coupon of booklet number 160-9876543210).

Note - a ticketed coupon could be quite valuable to the PAX/Airline - being used for charge backs, refunds etc. Woe betide any PAX who pulled a coupon from a booklet.

A simple return, say MEL-SYD-MEL, would use two coupons with the remaining two discarded.

Two decades ago I was issued a 20 segment booking (DONE4) comprising five such booklets stapled together.

Relevant coupons for each segment (and transit related segment) would be pulled from the booklet upon check in.

A Ticket Revalidation was performed by placing a special sticker with new flight details over that of the original flight.

A Ticket Reissue was done by replacing an entire set of one or more booklets with a new set of booklets.

Yes. I took ‘coupon value’ as a given, meaning a segment in a ticket.

For multi-segment fares the EU and UK assign a value by the ratio of the fare and distance for each coupon.

Using the example above, LHR-SYD-MEL is 11012 miles, with 10573 and 439 miles respectively.

If the ticket was €5000 one way, the SYD-MEL would work out as 5000/11012 x 439 = €199. So 75% of that.

Obviously if the segments are competently priced, the exact value of the coupon would apply.

 

[dylarr]

Think back to the days of paper tickets which were in the form of ticket booklets. The following is how I remember/experinced it.

Great post. It's funny how everything you just described is still relevant today with e-ticketing, right down to the 4 coupon limit per e-ticket. Instead of creating something more streamlined when e-ticketing was introduced, the old paper process along with all its nuances and intricacies was simply cloned into digital form. One of the reasons ticketing and airline reservation systems remain needlessly complex to this day.

but the irritation was mainly the loss of ALL Business privileges; increased baggage allowance (which we weren’t using) and lounge access, both of which Air NZ could have left in place at virtually no cost to them

To Qantas' credit, they allow you to keep the benefits such as the increased baggage allowance if you are involuntarily downgraded (unless you are shunted onto another airline like JQ, which is a whole other story).

 

[LoaderTosh]

There’s no weasel words there. It’s a question of fact. The coupon value is the value you paid for it. If you paid $1000, that’s the coupon value.

It becomes tricky where you might have a short domestic connector which will still have a value, but might have been included in the fare for no extra charge.

The coupon value is pretty standard terminology, no hidden catches.

I’m not a ‘regular’ here so I’m more than happy to accept your understanding of ‘value’ as being the same as ‘price’ as representing the average grasp of grammar that best represents FF members capabilities.

My infrequent forays into this site indicate that Ff member literacy, somewhat perplexingly, is of a somewhat higher standard than most public forums, but your 30k plus contributions undoubtedly give you far better insight.

For the record, price and value are entirely different concepts., eg, ‘my car when new cost me $35k (price) but today it’s worth only $15k’ (value), or ‘I paid $5 (price) for a bunch of roses from a street vendor at 7am on Valentine’s Day. When I left the office at 5pm a punter who had missed out offered me $50 (value) for them’.

So if airlines are similarly grammatically confused and really do think that coupon (ticket) ‘value’ is the same thing as ‘original price of the ticket’, I suspect they’ll get a surprise when someone gets uppity and drags them through the law courts. Or to put it another way, if they mean ‘price paid’ they should say exactly that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I’m not a ‘regular’ here so I’m more than happy to accept your understanding of ‘value’ as being the same as ‘price’ as representing the average grasp of grammar that best represents FF members capabilities.

My infrequent forays into this site indicate that Ff member literacy, somewhat perplexingly, is of a somewhat higher standard than most public forums, but your 30k plus contributions undoubtedly give you far better insight.

For the record, price and value are entirely different concepts., eg, ‘my car when new cost me $35k (price) but today it’s worth only $15k’ (value), or ‘I paid $5 (price) for a bunch of roses from a street vendor at 7am on Valentine’s Day. When I left the office at 5pm a punter who had missed out offered me $50 (value) for them’.

So if airlines are similarly grammatically confused and really do think that coupon (ticket) ‘value’ is the same thing as ‘original price of the ticket’, I suspect they’ll get a surprise when someone gets uppity and drags them through the law courts. Or to put it another way, if they mean ‘price paid’ they should say exactly that.

Totally get what you’re saying and where you’re coming from.

But it’s just airline speak, with accepted meaning within that language.

I suspect the reason for not using coupon ‘price’ is that fares and tickets aren’t constructed that way once you deviate from simple point-to-point itineraries.

For a single MEL-SYD, the coupon value will be the ticket price (less and government fees and charges).

But do a MEL-SYD-AKL and the price for each coupon isnt readily identifiable… which is why IATA and the EU/UK schemes use the ratio calculations.