Very disappointed about Qantas FF program

[Mattg]

I have been a Qantas FF member for Approx 20 years & have around 855,000 points, this used to be fair & accessable but now is almost impossible to book a rewards flight, in the past the number of points didnt change, it was a standard points cost per destination & just a matter of availability but now Qantas has introduced Classic Plus, which is a crude method of getting us to use more points.

Is this group prepared to put pressure on them to resume to a fair system,? I have written to the CEO Vanessa Hudson & Head of Qantas Loyalty Andrew Glance a few months ago & got nowhere. For long distance flights I have to fly business because of a back condition.

I welcome other's experience & direct contact

My suggestion would be to find a way to use up your existing points, then to switch your loyalty to a different airline and/or programs.

 

[flyguy77]

My suggestion would be to find a way to use up your existing points, then to switch your loyalty to a different airline and/or programs.

The issue is there aren't any real alternatives.

All points & loyalty programs are getting worse, have moved (or will move) to dynamic pricing and you'll just run into the same issues struggling to find availability most likely (and find it much harder to build a significant amount of points).

Airlines don't care if it's 'fair' or not - they are all about profits and whilst people keep getting sucked into points & loyalty they'll keep pushing the envelope as to how much worse they can make them.

 

[jrfsp]

The issue is there aren't any real alternatives.

All points & loyalty programs are getting worse, have moved (or will move) to dynamic pricing and you'll just run into the same issues struggling to find availability most likely (and find it much harder to build a significant amount of points).

Airlines don't care if it's 'fair' or not - they are all about profits and whilst people keep getting sucked into points & loyalty they'll keep pushing the envelope as to how much worse they can make them.

This is true, but hardly surprising its been a slow burn for many years.

Purchasing best fare of the day and not not blinding being tied to a loyalty program is the best way forward IMO, by All means collects points when you travel / everyday purchases but the dollar savings are likely to outweigh points redemption.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I have been a Qantas FF member for Approx 20 years & have around 855,000 points, this used to be fair & accessable but now is almost impossible to book a rewards flight, in the past the number of points didnt change, it was a standard points cost per destination & just a matter of availability but now Qantas has introduced Classic Plus, which is a crude method of getting us to use more points.

Is this group prepared to put pressure on them to resume to a fair system,? I have written to the CEO Vanessa Hudson & Head of Qantas Loyalty Andrew Glance a few months ago & got nowhere. For long distance flights I have to fly business because of a back condition.

I welcome other's experience & direct contact

I was in the same boat, and it’s possibly a case of working outside the box.

SIN-HEL-Europe was wide open for classic awards on Finnair, two seats every single day when we booked 10 months in advance. Other asian gateways also had availability.

Jetstar was wide open ex MEL to SIN in both economy and business. So we combined the two on a single ticket. Bags transferred, even an option if wanting to fly jetstar economy for $10 to buy the exit bulkhead (bargain!)

While booking Emirates was also wide open out of Bali and Jakarta in both business and first. Again, connecting qantas economy flights, but they are only short flights.

There are options out there if you can plan in advance.

 

[drron]

Just don’t try booking premium cabin awards out of Australia directly to your final destination.
You originally wanted Nairobi. On our next trip we are flying out of NBO. On AA awards but Velocity had the same availability at their classic rates. Flying QR so QFF is useless.
I am finding it harder to have awards on all our flights now so have to be more flexible. On our last trip that meant JQ business award BNE-BKK.

Next year could not get an award on QR for BKK-DOH so paying for that sector. But onward to EDI no problem. Still a lot cheaper than buying BNE-EDI.

One thing to consider is joining one of the websites that find awards. I have a subscription to Seats aero which has been very helpful. For example flying the BKK-DOH sector I could get a J award through QFF but flying UL on overnight flights and taking 2 days which we are not prepared to do.
All of us need to be smarter these days about award travel.

 

[CaptJCool]

I was in the same boat, and it’s possibly a case of working outside the box.

SIN-HEL-Europe was wide open for classic awards on Finnair, two seats every single day when we booked 10 months in advance. Other asian gateways also had availability.

Jetstar was wide open ex MEL to SIN in both economy and business. So we combined the two on a single ticket. Bags transferred, even an option if wanting to fly jetstar economy for $10 to buy the exit bulkhead (bargain!)

While booking Emirates was also wide open out of Bali and Jakarta in both business and first. Again, connecting qantas economy flights, but they are only short flights.

There are options out there if you can plan in advance.

This is where we need to adjust our thinking cause we are “sold a pup”



Lots of people have set specific dates and locations which adds to inflexibility or get to booking too late because they don’t know they gotta book a year out (or a eeek ahead)

There’s also the low supply locations (can local people afford to fly ?) so there’s less flights each day/week
So to the above might I add
The cheap business flights out of Manila $A2,100 to Europe and backtrack to Africa

Secondly one could save and “pay” for the overseas trip and use points for trips in Australia
There are quieter travel periods where demand is lower (domestically that’s immediately after school holiday periods including February and Mid-October)

this year second week September was quieter there were no AFL games in Melbourne on 14th but throw in a concert or big event and you’re stuffed
Even found demand to Christchurch in July was low

Internationally there’s been seasonal factors for decades
One could point to QF business fares to Vancouver or Santiago Chile v USA as an example of demand/supply factors at play

 

[aussieboozer]

This is where we need to adjust our thinking cause we are “sold a pup”

Agreed. My wife and I are looking for BNE-LHR return in J next year and have noticed current availability 1-2 weeks out is often quite good if departing SYD or MEL. Fortunately if our alert on seats.aero hits at a suitable time we are in a position where we can just book and go.

 

[NSun]

Airlines do have all the power now. Why? Because no matter how much we whine and complain about the award avaliability (even if it is to some extent justified), it is all about what we do without our wallets that counts for the bottom line and what will provoke airlines to do anything. We may get frustrated about needing 20% more points and significant increased co-payments but people will still keep signing up to the program and earning points. If there's any positive, they did give us advance notice of the devaluation which not all programs do. The case study of Delta in 2023 shows that airlines will back off on changes if they perceive there will be a big enough drop in engagement enough to impact the bottom line. Yes people may be booking less flights (although I do not know that for a fact), but if they're buying toasters instead or using Points Plus Pay that's much better for the bottom line.

And if people with hundreds of thousands of points get upset that their complaints about the lack of award avaliability are ignored, or if there is any response it is simply referring them to their Terms and conditions outlining why they can get away with what they do; what can those people do? I guess, just burn their points on gift cards and toasters which again is better for the airline. Go to the ACCC? The ACCC has shown it doesn't hesitate to intervene where it can win but it wouldn't because (again) airlines would just point to their terms and conditions outlining why they can get away with marketing as if points can be redeemed all the time whilst that is not the case in reality.

That said, I do think there are three things that have caused consumers to have unrealistic expectations. First, the existence (and exponential increase in recent years) of aviation bloggers/vloggers, points experts, websites and points advertisements that give rise to the unrealistic perception that points can be redeemed whenever/wherever you want (i.e. Because you can get 120k points for signing up for 1 credit card, it must mean I can book 4 first/business class seats to Europe in June/July).

Second, people's lack of flexibility in terms of dates and routes, they think they should fly non-stop. Would you rather pay $3k per person return economy non-stop Sydney-Perth-London or perhaps pay $600 per person and 250k points to fly SYD-BLR non-stop then jump on an Emirates flight via Dubai the rest of the way? SYD-BLR availability is pretty good most of the year as is Manila and Jakarta. If you're a Sydneysider wanting to fly to Singapore, would you be prepared to fly via Brisbane or Melbourne if that was the difference?

Third, the either lack of knowledge or courage to seek out alternative frequent flyer programs. No, not just velocity but KrisFlyer, Avianca miles etc. Even flexible programs like Amex. Because many of us on here with experience would know that while they may not be as easy to accrue as Qantas points, they do offer better availability and lower cost of redemption (i.e. less points and lower taxes) that can offset the increased cost (even if it is only time and effort instead of cash) of accuring them.

@Litesource I can understand that you feel you were misled or 'ripped off'. You earned points over many years thinking you could one day redeem them for a 'trip of a lifetime'. It was so easy to earn points and the ads that have made us sign up enmasse imply it is so easy. But then you realise it wasn't so you rock up here and some of us are unsympathetic saying it is entirely your fault whilst others have legitimate advice that is easy to tell you in hindsight (like use other frequent flyer programs like Amex) and it is something you might have done had you rocked up here 10 years ago saying,' I want to earn points for a big trip someday', and got that advice.

Even if you started today, that doesn't help you where you are now with a tonne of points and seemingly unable to spend them on international business class flights instead of gift cards and toasters. As others have said, your best options for using the points you have now are:
1. Fly enough on cash tickets to become a Platinum member and then request award seats to be released (this does not always work but earlier this year I rang up and got a 1x first class seat on QF 1 (SYD-SIN) released which I would never have just booked myself - the caveat is I had to settle for 1 day earlier than I wanted, not all can be that flexible).
2. Be a little flexible. Look at indirect routings and perhaps settle for airlines/routes you may not have thought of. For instance, fly Qantas to Manila, Jakarta or Bengaluru and book a cash ticket or another points ticket from there. For my QF1 flight I could only get a return flight a few days later going via Melbourne - but was I going to turn down the opportunity to use points just because I had to transit via Melbourne? Same answer to the question as to whether or not I was going to turn down a chance to fly First Class just because I'd have to settle for a flight 1 day earlier than I wanted.

@Litesource I wish you best of luck in resolving the situation and would be genuinely curious to know how it does. Or if nothing else, I'd be curious to know your thoughts on option number 2 because others suggested that earlier this year and you didn't express an opinion. Whether or not you share your opinion with us, I think (to be brutally honest) you need to ask yourself if you'd rather use points on an indirect routing than not use them at all and I insinuate you have not asked yourself that question. But I promise you'll be disappointed if you expect eventually Vanessa Hudson or another executive will respond to you in the form of an apology and giving you a dedicated call centre slot to book a direct flight to Africa/Europe in first/business class on the exact date and time you want.

FYI, the only time I've ever got engagement from Qantas executives personally is a couple of times I posted on LinkedIn about positive flight experiences and those I tagged liked it. But if I posted complaining about a lack of award availability I wouldn't have gotten that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Good point about the bloggers setting expectations. ‘We flew first class for $120’ (and 250k FF points)

I mean there are literally thousands upon thousands of economy award seats, and I know someone who uses their points just for those, Never had a problem, even close-in, getting seats to things such as the rugby world cup, or the football in dubai. They always leave their flights ‘till the last minute, and end up mixing and matching one way tickets.

It’s not the best value in terms of redemption, but as far as they’re concerned, it’s $2000 or $3000 in their pocket.

As a silver member my email offers are always for economy class awards. Although they try and sell the upgrades in points

 

[muppet]

Good point about the bloggers setting expectations. ‘We flew first class for $120’ (and 250k FF points)

I mean there are literally thousands upon thousands of economy award seats, and I know someone who uses their points just for those, Never had a problem, even close-in, getting seats to things such as the rugby world cup, or the football in dubai. They always leave their flights ‘till the last minute, and end up mixing and matching one way tickets.

It’s not the best value in terms of redemption, but as far as they’re concerned, it’s $2000 or $3000 in their pocket.

As a silver member my email offers are always for economy class awards. Although they try and sell the upgrades in points

Economy awards definitely have their place in terms of value and your examples are petty good ones. Where base fares are high but for whatever reason economy awards are still available.

 

[JohnM]

The OP wanted to go to NBO from a non-disclosed point (in Australia presumably).

It is not impossible.

Three weeks ago I got two J redemptions to NBO, routing PER-HKG (CX) - DXB (EK) - NBO (EK) for exactly the dates I needed in July 2026, to get to NBO to begin some long locked-in safaris.

Undoubtedly I had a large element of luck, and I was happy with the indirect routing as the bonus was a one night stopover in HKG and two nights in DXB, neither of which my partner has been to before.

But the OP is unrealistic in thinking that the airlines are just going to lay on J redemptions whilly-nilly to accommodate their need to fly J because of a crook back, and doubly unrealistic in thinking that complaining to the CEO is going to have the slightest effect.

 

[GrahamBRI]

I have been a Qantas FF member for Approx 20 years & have around 855,000 points, this used to be fair & accessable

I have been a frequent flyer member for 35 or so years (whenever Ansett kicked of their program many years ago)..... honestly the only significant change I have really seen is the number of members has skyrocketed and their associated demand. As a classic business reward fanatic, the "accessibility" for these, that could somewhat be relied on (35 years ago), was two business seats per flight...... I honestly don't think this has changed that much...... other than they won't last for more than a week before they are grabbed (35 years ago, they would last months), we no longer have guaranteed fixed patterns when they will be released, they are now often reserved for their highest status customers.

Is this group prepared to put pressure on them to resume to a fair system,?

If this group was to put pressure on airlines for a "fair system" we would need to articulate what is unfair and what a fair system looks like. As noted earlier in this thread, I don't think Qantas would have enough planes to meet the demand for classic reward business seats, so any "fair system" being proposed needs to be something that the outcome is the airline itself survives. What are your suggestions? double the number? nope, based on your OP, still missing out. So very challenging to articulate this. Your thoughts on a fair system?
Happy and keen to get you flying international in J classic reward as I (and a very large contingent on these forums) have that skill in the toolbox....... but spending time trying to apply pressure to large airlines, without a clearly articulated proposal, near zero return on investment here (especially when my partner and I fly J classic every school holidays to every corner of the globe - I would not be taken seriously by the airlines for claiming the current system was unfair).

 

[CaptJCool]

The slow earners are swamped by the faster earners who have more money to spend or are travelling on the employers dime or they are single (and not funding kids..)

They can be far more engaged but simply not got the cash nor employment options to earn faster

Like all things, when what you are promised “someday” in the future fails to materialise, people get antsy.
But of course, QF are nowhere to be seen when the anger surfaces …

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If this group was to put pressure on airlines for a "fair system" we would need to articulate what is unfair and what a fair system looks like.

Why not a set number of seats on every flight when the schedule opens? For the 330/787 that wouod be 2+2+4 seats (PEY only on the 787), and for the a380 that would be 4+4+8.

Clear, transparent and easy.

Mirrors BA.

Additional seats can be released depending on estimated yields.

Platinums can request additional seats.

 

[Aggi]

In the good old days it might have been easier to get business reward seats (I recall doing an around Australia trip in business class with Ansett for 37,000 odd points). However it was much harder to earn points. You could only earn them from flying. Now you can earn hundreds of thousands of points without any flying at all.

Reward seats in premium cabins will always be scarce. So I think it’s unrealistic for those who earned all their points on the ground to expect to get access to those seats if they don’t also have frequent flyer status.

I have been Platinum with Qantas for many years and since retiring it’s all on my own dime which takes lots of effort and use of DSC promotions. However, by being Platinum I have been able to get premium seats released which to me is a benefit worth maintaining Platinum for.

 

[GrahamBRI]

Why not a set number of seats on every flight when the schedule opens? For the 330/787 that wouod be 2+2+4 seats (PEY only on the 787), and for the a380 that would be 4+4+8.

Clear, transparent and easy.

Yep, support that and love to have the transparency. That makes it a lot easy for me to increase my points spend with Qantas, so certainly count me in for this proposal for a fair system......

......but unfortunately I don't believe that will achieve any change in terms of a "fair system" for the OP Litesource wanting to get to Kenya 10 weeks out from their preferred flight dates in J, with Qantas points. I don't think they would even get half way??? best I would think with this improvement would be possible one seat on an A380 to Singapore? For this to work for OP, the seats would need to be released at 10-12 weeks out from their preferred date. They will certainly all be gone if this dump of seats were released at the 353 day mark.....

(putting aside the fact that Qantas does not fly to Kenya)

 

[JohnM]

Something else to consider in relation to the OP's specific desire to fly to NBO is the availability of J redemptions on carriers that can get you directly there on QF points (looking at EK).

When I was booking my July-September 2026 Africa travel, there was good availability in J (and F) on EK out of SYD & MEL-xDXB-NBO showing out almost a year. Out of PER was nothing, which is not unexpected, given one flight/day. I actually dummied an F redemption all the way to NBO. Based on that, I was optimistic I could take partner JM on her first EK F ride in 2026.

As we all know, in early August this year ready availability on EK suddenly came to an abrupt end. Was it QF's doing, EK's doing or a combination? Nobody seems to know.

If it was EK's doing, bellyaching to Vanessa Hudson is even more irrelevant and unrealistic.

 

[anat0l]

I have been a frequent flyer member for 35 or so years (whenever Ansett kicked of their program many years ago)..... honestly the only significant change I have really seen is the number of members has skyrocketed and their associated demand. As a classic business reward fanatic, the "accessibility" for these, that could somewhat be relied on (35 years ago), was two business seats per flight...... I honestly don't think this has changed that much...... other than they won't last for more than a week before they are grabbed (35 years ago, they would last months), we no longer have guaranteed fixed patterns when they will be released, they are now often reserved for their highest status customers.

I wonder theoretically how many more flights would Qantas need to operate for this kind of reality to exist today?

I know the answer is, "way too many," but I'm still curious. Qantas is in no position whatsoever to operate that many flights, let alone half of them, but that means either we accept that's how the game has become worse or Qantas needs to be compelled to change how they operate Qantas Frequent Flyer in order to give people a more realistic idea of what the programme is all about and what they can expect to benefit from it, even if that means QF will lose profits due to that action.

 

[CaptJCool]

There’s probably a way of doing it

As it’s all data and the splits of paid revenue tickets (by price range including CR+ tics) and CR tickets and and points upgrades and op ups and staff travel, empty seats and any other variations would be available in the data holdings

But what it could mean is “selling more “ in one category and cutting back on another… after all, there’s a finite number of available seats …

 

[elanshin]

There’s probably a way of doing it

As it’s all data and the splits of paid revenue tickets (by price range including CR+ tics) and CR tickets and and points upgrades and op ups and staff travel, empty seats and any other variations would be available in the data holdings

But what it could mean is “selling more “ in one category and cutting back on another… after all, there’s a finite number of available seats …

Unless QF runs very differently to lots of other airlines, the struggle is always the revenue department don't want to give anything to the loyalty department as they both need to make their own numbers look better and both fight for seats on a plane.