Sydney airport madness

[medhead]

Glad to see you are happy to "torment" a normal person just doing their job.

A normal person? I'm talking about tormenting the Parking Officer who is targetting certain people, abusing their position to illegally force people to identify themselves and enforcing morally bankrupt rules that seem to be at the very edge of what is allowed by the road rules.

Where's the harm?

The guards at Aushwitz tried the "I was just doing my job defence" it didn't work for them and the A-holes working for MAP don't get to use that defence either.

 

[Dave Noble]

The guards at Aushwitz tried the "I was just doing my job defence" it didn't work for them and the A-holes working for MAP don't get to use that defence either.

Completely inapproriate and insulting to compare the parking attendants in that manner imo

On top of that , they are doing a perfectly legal job and it seems petty and juvenile to try and attack the people for doing so

If objecting to the rules that are being enforced, then should just take it up with those making the rules, not to take it out on those just working there

Dave

 

[NYCguy]

Me, I'll take the ticket, and pursue the matter in court. I can be a difficult, petty man that way, and if they think I won't fly back out to SYD to contest a little fine, then they had better think again.

That, or you could rip the ticket up in front of the "officer", and suggest that they have no authority at all to issue such infringement notices, preferably in five words or less. I mean, c'mon, it's a little childish, but it's very satisfying, and if they are that thin-skinned, they won't survive in the ticket-writing business very long.

Remember, "all that is required for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing".

 

[ejb_nz]

Me, I'll take the ticket, and pursue the matter in court. I can be a difficult, petty man that way, and if they think I won't fly back out to SYD to contest a little fine, then they had better think again.

That, or you could rip the ticket up in front of the "officer", and suggest that they have no authority at all to issue such infringement notices, preferably in five words or less. I mean, c'mon, it's a little childish, but it's very satisfying, and if they are that thin-skinned, they won't survive in the ticket-writing business very long.

Remember, "all that is required for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing".

I totally agree with this method NYCguy. I have "collected" 5 or 6 fines now for overstaying the domestic pickup times, when I know the person I am collecting has got their bags and only need to walk over to the car. Each time I elect to go to court MAP withdraw the fine and it is over before court even starts.

I am not into abusing the staff if they remain civil, however if they are rude all bets are off and I give it to them in no uncertain terms.

Most of the time I merely accept the fine with a smile and follow up the next day with an email outlining my intentions to take the matter to court and MAP have never taken me up on my offer as I beleive they don't want to lose as it would mean the average traveller would cease paying the fines.

ejb.

 

[medhead]

Completely inapproriate and insulting to compare the parking attendants in that manner imo

On top of that , they are doing a perfectly legal job and it seems petty and juvenile to try and attack the people for doing so

If objecting to the rules that are being enforced, then should just take it up with those making the rules, not to take it out on those just working there

Dave

No, actually the parking officers are acting illegally. It is illegal to demand to see someone's ID. Not even the police have the right to force one to show ID. They can only ask you to identify yourself. I doubt that parking officer's even have that power. Second the description of parking signs given elsewhere on AFF seem to border on the edge of the law.

This is why my example is appropriate because this people are acting at and beyond the scope of their legal authority. Even if it is legal as you claim, it is morally questionable. Sure not a big issue, parking. But it is the thin end of the wedge. I'm not going to be tortured and executed for resisting the actions of these parking officers. And rather then torment, what I propose is called passive resistance.

Finally the absolutely disgusting things that occurred in naz_ German were also legal. That didn't help those people who claimed they were only doing their legal job. This comparison may be extreme but it is an appropriate example as it has all the same characteristics.

 

[NM]

No, actually the parking officers are acting illegally. It is illegal to demand to see someone's ID. Not even the police have the right to force one to show ID. They can only ask you to identify yourself. I doubt that parking officer's even have that power. Second the description of parking signs given elsewhere on AFF seem to border on the edge of the law.

Is it true that the parking Officers are "demanding" to see people's ID? Or are they "requesting" to see ID? I believe a police officer can request to see your ID. In fact anyone can "request" to see it. But of course if "requested" for ID, you would be entitled to decline the request. Where the conversation goes from there may be of interest in deciding if any actions (by parking officer or potential passenger) are in fact illegal or fineable.

 

[mm472]

lots more info on this situation here

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/your-questions/drive-pick-up-penalty-sydney-16027.html

 

[david870mdg]

(User comment) So is MAP and its employees an "Authority" as defined under the act? How are they different to the police or Council officers? :?:

As much as I despise the idea of making people pay to pick up passengers from the aiport, or employees issuing fines to offenders, to suggest that they are the guards at the gates of a naz_ War instution is wrong.
​

 

[Alanslegal]

If the OP says what is true - then it is incredibly ridiculous. :evil:

I'd personally be prepared to test it out and go there this weekend "pretending" to look like I have just arrived and awaiting a pick up - when the truth is, I won't be. I'd easily fit the category of targeting a non-english speaker as I'm an ABC <-- Australian Born Chinese.

Being asked for ID and subsequently fined for something that "technically" has not yet happened is complete non-sense! If I do get asked for ID, I'd go one step further and be prepared to take it to the media.

Wish me luck guys, cos these unjust actions really do pull at my heart strings.

 

[Alanslegal]

Why is it madness that they are targetting people who are not prepared to follow their rules regarding pick ups and drop offs?

Dave

Sorry Dave but going to way have to disagree there. If I really didn't like you *which I don't* and I was a parking officer, police or whatever, I'd book you the moment you reversed your car out of your driveway and slap you with an infringement notice because I know/assume that you are going to break a rule - even though it may or may not happen down the track.

 

[medhead]

Moderators please delete this reply if not relevant.

From ROAD RULES 2008 (NSW):

Direction by a police officer or authorised person
304 Direction by a police officer or authorised person

Irrelevant, the parking officer is not issuing a direction for the safe and efficient flow of traffic.

 

[medhead]

Is it true that the parking Officers are "demanding" to see people's ID? Or are they "requesting" to see ID?

From the OP:

They will just walk up to the pax who looks like
they are waiting for cars at the drop off (departure) area
and ask them whether they are waiting for pickup,
if they say yes they will just get their IDs and give them a ticket...

I believe a police officer can request to see your ID. In fact anyone can "request" to see it. But of course if "requested" for ID, you would be entitled to decline the request. Where the conversation goes from there may be of interest in deciding if any actions (by parking officer or potential passenger) are in fact illegal or fineable.

A police officer can ask you to identify yourself. That is not the same as requesting to see your ID. If they reasonably suspect your have failed to correctly identify yourself (I'm donald duck) they can take further action such as asking for ID etc. I based this of a key learning point from the authorised officer training I did for some other NSW legislation (read not traffic, or police related).

 

[fortymilliondaggers]

(User comment) So is MAP and its employees an "Authority" as defined under the act? How are they different to the police or Council officers? :?:

​

Airports are Commonwealth land.

Airports Act 1996 Part 11 gives Commonwealth control of certain airport activites.

Under this they made the Airports (Control of On-Airport Activities) Regulation 1997 to set out how this control is exercised.

These regulations set out the offences for which fines may be issued. For parking and traffic offences, it says that certain Australian Road Rules sections are applicable.

The most relevant part for this thread is Part 7 which says that infriengement notices can be issued by an 'authorised person'. Under the Regulations authorised person includes certain Commonwealth employees, certain Federal Police officers and employees/contractors of an airport-operator company ie Sydney Airport staff.

I don't know where the money goes or how it is collected. I'm sure agreements are in place between all the interested parties, and that the Commonwealth gets a fair chunk of the money. Otherwise, they could just pull the pin on delegating this authority to issue tickets.

 

[FL360]

Thank you guys for your input, I am sure this is a hot topic :evil:
and thank you Alanslegal for testing it..

I made this post because when I was dropped off last weekend I actually see an officer writing something to a pax (who looks like some foreign students just arrived in OZ waiting to be picked up at the departures area) at T2 .

And when I was dropped off at the T3 departure area an officer actually approach me and ask whether I am getting picked up ! Although he actually saw my friends car departing and I am walking towards the terminal doors ! ...

I imagine if I do not understand his questions he will just start dropping down the rego numbers...

What I am suspecting is that their infringement notice might be given to an individual as well as a vehicle, according to whatever by-laws that they might have....

 

[medhead]

The most relevant part for this thread is Part 7 which says that infriengement notices can be issued by an 'authorised person'. Under the Regulations authorised person includes certain Commonwealth employees, certain Federal Police officers and employees/contractors of an airport-operator company ie Sydney Airport staff.

Not to confuse authorised persons with the Authority. In the general, the Authority is the entity responsilble for administering the legislation. The road rules are a bit complex being uniform rules that are adopted across Australia, so there must be 8 or 9 Authorities - States/Terroritories and Commonwealth.

But MAP is highly unlikely to the be Authority.

I think another thread said that the money was collected by the NSW fine processing system.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I think that it's crazy and just revenue raising. Simple as that.
How did you go Alanslegal?

 

[NM]

A police officer can ask you to identify yourself. That is not the same as requesting to see your ID. If they reasonably suspect your have failed to correctly identify yourself (I'm donald duck) they can take further action such as asking for ID etc. I based this of a key learning point from the authorised officer training I did for some other NSW legislation (read not traffic, or police related).

I found the report by the OP to be sufficiently ambiguous as to whether the ID check was a demand or a request. In fact, my initial interpretation was that it was the officer getting their own IDs out to identify themselves to the passenger. Does the "their" relate to the passenger or the parking officer?

if they say yes they will just get their IDs and give them a ticket

With such ambiguity, I am not willing to make my own judgement about the legality or appropriateness of the process until I know the reality of the situation.

 

[david870mdg]

AIRPORTS (CONTROL OF ON-AIRPORT ACTIVITIES) REGULATIONS 1997 - REG 145

When an infringement notice can be issued If an authorised person has reason to believe that a person has committed an authorised person he or she may issue an infringement notice to the person in accordance with this Part.

Well good luck to MAP and their employess is this blatant cash grab.

 

[odysseus]

Separate from the fines issue, but having just gone through SYD international on the bus the other week, they've certainly ruined the traffic flow after the opening of their new car park. Traffic now merges and crosses multiple times and has to weave a long way around the area through to the back of the terminal before being able to continue. As if delays weren't bad enough before, this new flow they created is a mess!

Of course, I'm sure they consider it a success as a bigger car park means more revenue. I'm not even sure there was a need to change the tail end of the flow around as it was clear of the new structure.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Bottom line is that there SHOULD be an area to PICK UP pax as well as drop off...this is SYDNEY's international airport! The fact that one must park the car in a car park is crazy!

(Is it possible to enter the carpark, collect your passenger then leave within 3 mins? I know many carparks don't charge for drive in/drive out...knowing MAP I guess I know the answer right?)