Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[RooFlyer]

Did anyone have "climate change" as the reason?

“I want more capacity for people to be able to enjoy travel, but equally I want to be able to decarbonise the transport sector, aviation has a role to play in that as well, so there’s a mix of things I look at,” she said.

what did I say about not necessariky believing everything that comes out of the ministers office? Climate change, TK’s failure to apply. Yeah whatever.

 

[OATEK]

That certainly screams out that the reason she denied in the article was the reason she didn't approve Qatar's request. Typical politician double speak.
Now if i was Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani I would be writing to the minister saying we will issue a formal apology to the women involved in that terrible incident, compensate them generously and put on trial the official who authorised this. After extensive investigation we have identified that official. I would be confident that by some unfortunate slip up a copy of the Minister's letter went to the women's lawyers.
Next move would be to ask Qatar airlines to ask the Minister to reconsider her decision. Diplomacy in action.

But instead Qatar are fighting the claim from the affected women!

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qatar-airways-to-fight-claim-by-australian-women-subjected-to-invasive-searches-in-doha/news-story/c41d84399b32a51e42cc753eab27810e

 

[justinbrett]

what did I say about not necessariky believing everything that comes out of the ministers office? Climate change, TK’s failure to apply. Yeah whatever.

Apples and grapefruits again.

One thing to use vague language about how one might consider an application (as here with QR)

Quite another to outright lie that TK hasn’t formally submitted an application (which is easily disproved by TK if it so desired).

That certainly screams out that the reason she denied in the article was the reason she didn't approve Qatar's request. Typical politician double speak.
Now if i was Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani I would be writing to the minister saying we will issue a formal apology to the women involved in that terrible incident, compensate them generously and put on trial the official who authorised this. After extensive investigation we have identified that official. I would be confident that by some unfortunate slip up a copy of the Minister's letter went to the women's lawyers.
Next move would be to ask Qatar airlines to ask the Minister to reconsider her decision. Diplomacy in action.

The fact QR & the QAT government aren’t publicly complaining suggest to me there’s much more to this than we know and probably other negotiations still ongoing. There’s probably a lot more at stake for QAT than a measly 21 flights a week - I think they have bigger fish to fry.

 

[BAM1748]

Some of the comments here are mind boggling .. Since Aus is in cough end of the world, we need more transit points if you are flying west, towards Europe and flying towards east got few transit points but well catered for if you going to US or Europe.
Qantas has shown its colours when the chips are down and Qantas MO is corrupting pollies from both major parties.
Australian govt. should cater for the people here and Qantas use of chairman lounge should now be referred to federal corruption body.

QF isn’t forcing corruption on anyone, everyone has choices including our duly elected politicians.

Our members could easily not accept the invite. As half of them didn’t want an anti corruption commission and the other half want it secret, revoking lounge invites isn’t going to be on the radar in my lifetime.

 

[dajop]

There’s probably a lot more at stake for QAT than a measly 21 flights a week - I think they have bigger fish to fry.

This. I assume that negotiations between countries are really a game of chess - often 3D chess. QR access to Australia is just one piece on the chessboard.

 

[BAM1748]

Question, are QR flights to Australia full ?

Wondering if QR if they got more capacity would be luring in shorter haul euros to Qatar then delivering people onward.

 

[RooFlyer]

Apples and grapefruits again.

One thing to use vague language about how one might consider an application (as here with QR)

Quite another to outright lie that TK hasn’t formally submitted an application (which is easily disproved by TK if it so desired).

Yeah - you think TK are going to totally pi** off a Minister by contradicting/embarrassing her? Not saying it was in this case, but you don't think outright lies are told by our Federal masters to save face, knowing that the other party is totally within their administrative/commercial control?

Apples, grapefruits or go the whole fruit salad - trust what you hear out of Canberra at your peril. They play the game a lot better and dirtier than you or I.

The fact QR & the QAT government aren’t publicly complaining suggest to me there’s much more to this than we know

The fact that they aren't complaining means they know what side their bread is buttered!! Take the hits from the ones who hold their commercial future in their hands and hope to move forward.

 

[justinbrett]

Yeah - you think TK are going to totally pi** off a Minister by contradicting/embarrassing her? Not saying it was in this case, but you don't think outright lies are told by our Federal masters to save face, knowing that the other party is totally within their administrative/commercial control?

Apples, grapefruits or go the whole fruit salad - trust what you hear out of Canberra at your peril. They play the game a lot better and dirtier than you or I.

I’m talking about this case, and it’s pretty easy to find out when an application was submitted once the AOC is issued. Let’s revisit your conspiracy then (that you originally asserted was just you being mischievous yet you keep bringing up… )

The fact that they aren't complaining means they know what side their bread is buttered!! Take the hits from the ones who hold their commercial future in their hands and hope to move forward.

I think you seriously overstate our place in the global economy.

 

[RooFlyer]

I’m talking about this case, and it’s pretty easy to find out when an application was submitted once the AOC is issued. Let’s revisit your conspiracy then (that you originally asserted was just you being mischievous yet you keep bringing up… )



I think you seriously overstate our place in the global economy.

And I'm talking about no believing everything (?anything) you hear from a Minister's office. That's all. Pretty simple. No conspiracy (or fruit salad) needed - if you don't believe that, then I have a nice bridge in Sydney to sell you.

And re global economy - poorly worded - but pretty obviously I was talking about the commercial future in Australia And if you don't think that the Federal Minister holds the commercial future (in Australia!) of foreign airlines seeking capacity expansions in their hands, then have another look at that bridge.

 

[Melburnian1]

Question, are QR flights to Australia full ?

Wondering if QR if they got more capacity would be luring in shorter haul euros to Qatar then delivering people onward.

Unfortunately the Federal Government's BITRE has only published January 2023 statistics for international airlines. It's well behind as usually it publishes these within three months of a month ending, and sometimes a little faster.

In January 2023 to Qatar QR carried 64,805 passengers with a load factor of 82.2 per cent: this was the offpeak direction.

In the peak direction with many returning from Christmas holidays, in Jan 2023, QR inbound to Oz conveyed 70,657 passengers, with 89.1pc of seats occupied.

Some of us go to UK/Europe for skiing, looking at Christmas markets, experience a northern hemisphere winter, VFR travel and so on but it isn't the peak time in December or January to visit these distant destinations.

Some airlines were better: SQ for instance respectively had 91.8 and 97.6pc seat occupancy. It is peak time to return from visiting Asia.

The above is only a month's statistics but it seems Qatar Airways is doing quite well into and out of Oz.

 

[justinbrett]

And I'm talking about no believing everything (?anything) you hear from a Minister's office. That's all. Pretty simple. No conspiracy (or fruit salad) needed - if you don't believe that, then I have a nice bridge in Sydney to sell you.

And re global economy - poorly worded - but pretty obviously I was talking about the commercial future in Australia And if you don't think that the Federal Minister holds the commercial future of foreign airlines seeking capacity expansions in their hands, then have another look at that bridge.

If you’re not talking about this case then I suggest your post is off topic.

As for the rest - QR only makes up 5% of QAT's GDP, and the Australian market is a much smaller part of that; I think it's fair to say the QAT government has a few more plates spinning than just this one.

 

[straitman]

[mod hat]Several OT and attacking posts have been removed. Let's stick to the topic please folks. [/mod hat]

 

[OATEK]

From today's Australian:

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has denied the federal government is doing the airline’s bidding...

The outgoing airline boss hit back at claims Qantas was dictating government policy and played down its influence.

“If the government was doing the bidding of Qantas then it would’ve knocked on the head multi-employer bargaining which is a much bigger issue (than traffic rights),” Mr Joyce said.

"Transport Minister Catherine King has yet to explain why the decision was made to knock back Qatar’s application, which was met with dismay by many tourism leaders."

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-chief-alan-joyce-denies-the-government-is-in-its-thrall-after-qatar-flights-thwarted/news-story/ad4530cffdb944242d7b7316920d531a

 

[jase05]

And of course Albo’s son just happened to be invited into the CL

 

[Gold Member]

And of course Albo’s son just happened to be invited into the CL

It’s for “commercial” reasons, jase. Weren’t you listening?

 

[Quickstatus]

Qatar govt claiming sovereign immunity in the case of the 5 women. Court case pending in Australia which QR is contesting. Likely QR hands were tied in that incident, - it was just the puppet.

QR applies for extension of landing rights. Aust govt gives QR the cold shoulder.

From my perspective this is just a simple request to the Qatar govt. Settle the lawsuit and then we can move on.

 

[RooFlyer]

Settle the lawsuit and then we can move on.

Same old issue though - 'settle' and you are implicitly accepting some 'guilt' and obviously some liability. Not settling depends on the side in question either firmly believing that they shouldn't pay or that they can outlast the other party in court (costs).

QR the airline separates itself from DOH airport & security forces there. I dunno - maybe similar to Qantas operating out of, say SYD before they and the airport were privatised??

And I doubt there will ever be any 'moving on' from some quarters, even if the case is settled. What dreadfully happened, happened. I can't see the Minister, given her comments to date, saying, with a settlement, "Oh, that's OK then, we have no problemo".

 

[cove]

A very disappointing decision by an out of touch decision maker In government.
We used Qatar to get home from London in March,2020 and Mrscove would fly with them in the future. Her view of Qantas has declined a lot as they keep mishandling things when something goes wrong. The sooner the current CEO is gone the sooner Qantas can begin to recover. The Qantas board should have let him go out on a service low.

 

[anyonebutqantas]

Same old issue though - 'settle' and you are implicitly accepting some 'guilt' and obviously some liability. Not settling depends on the side in question either firmly believing that they shouldn't pay or that they can outlast the other party in court (costs).

QR the airline separates itself from DOH airport & security forces there. I dunno - maybe similar to Qantas operating out of, say SYD before they and the airport were privatised??

And I doubt there will ever be any 'moving on' from some quarters, even if the case is settled. What dreadfully happened, happened. I can't see the Minister, given her comments to date, saying, with a settlement, "Oh, that's OK then, we have no problemo".

Precisely - if AFP wrongly arrested someone or conducted searches on a passenger on a QF plane I'm sure we'd never see QF pay compensation. The proper target of criticism would be the relevant policing authority or government.

 

[Quickstatus]

The proper target of criticism would be the relevant policing authority or government.

Exactly, that is why I see this playing out in the backroom
Qatar Govt asserts sovereign immunity in the lawsuit in which QR named as defendant. QR does not want to play ball. So Aus govt just takes ball and goes home. QR is caught in middle
The Australian signal to Qatar: settle the case in some way even if sovereign immunity is asserted, then we talk about increasing landing rights.