Disillusionment sets in … is it worth it?

[Pushka]

WP. You just have to keep trying and be flexible with whom you travel and visit along the way. I used to be able to get Qatar and Emirates redemptions. Now, it seems the only success I'm having is with Malaysian Airlines. I rarely get a Qantas award but not my preferred airline anyway. Once out of Australia though, award flights on other carriers are very easy to get. Eg BA. It's an expensive time for travel right now. Don't give up. Just might need to cool your heels. Yet again.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

OK I am officially disillusioned. I have been gathering points over many years (other sources than flights) and decided a few weeks ago that the time was right to book my first flight redemption in business class. That’s when I discovered that rewards seats were hard to come by. In fact on some routes near impossible. And when I discovered what looked like finds these proved disappointing. Eg flights with two sectors where the international leg was in economy and the connecting domestic leg in business. Why these flights are classed as business is beyond me. And then there were options thrown up where the routing was via countries which extended the journey beyond a joke. Eg flights from Singapore back to Australia via Vietnam or Sri Lanka. Given extended waits for connecting flights made these options unviable. On the rare occasions direct flights were available this required additional nights in a city adding substantially to the cost of a holiday (up to several thousand dollars) diluting the benefits gained from an award redemption. Then I have been reading in the forum about last minute flight cancellations throwing itineraries into disarray. Or passengers being transferred onto an earlier flight thereby experiencing problems with connections to onward sectors. And of course the long thread bemoaning the difficulties of dealing with the Qantas call centre. As a bronze Qantas FF I have no status so naturally when seats are released they are first snapped up by Platinum 1, Platinum, Gold, Silver FF leaving few options open. Is there any value in collecting points. It just seems simpler to pay for flights, thereby choosing the carrier, dates of travel, class. Sorry for the rant. Just feeling that it’s all too difficult.

Have you tried using the award service offered by AFF? They have specialists who can work on your itinerary. It would take away the stress.

You can get business class return to Europe these days for around $5000. Fly when you want. This is not a top tier airline but the flight is quick and the bed is flat.

By the time you pay up to $2000 in carrier fees and charges on top of your award it makes paid fares an attractive option.

 

[drron]

Human, when you said to diversify I assume you meant enrolling into the Velocity or Singapore airlines Krisflyers Programme. Not sure what Avios are but will look into it. But my expenditure is not sufficient to maintain two FF programmes to generate sufficient points to achieve anything of value. So how best to diversify? And Anna what does YMMV mean?

There are a few tricks which can make it easier. I use AA and BA.
For example wanting to fly BNE- HND next year. Looking at mrsdrron's QFF account -she is WP - business "classic awards are all over 1 million points. By using Multi city you can bring up BNE -NAN-HKG-HND for 157,200 points plud $258.
But a simple BNE-HND search on AA brings up on every day in October until the 23rd which is the last day available under the 330 day release of awards will bring up several options with BNE-NAN-HND available most days. Also some BNE- SYD-NAN-HND. all on FJ. There are too options with CX and BAvia SYD. The cost 40000 points plus ~ $50 in taxes.

There are other ways than QFF.
Getting AA points isn't that hard. credit Your QF flights to them and most CCs you can send points to a hotel program and then on to AA. many hotel chains allow you to credit AA when staying. Rental cars are another way.

 

[love_the_life]

Sorry but what does this mean. I am not sure how it relates to the points I raised

YMMV means that your take on the statement may be different. So if I say, it's easier to just pay for J or F fares, you may not agree at all (so Your Mileage Might Vary).

Edit - sorry - just saw it was answered above

 

[Stargazer]

There are a few tricks which can make it easier. I use AA and BA.
For example wanting to fly BNE- HND next year. Looking at mrsdrron's QFF account -she is WP - business "classic awards are all over 1 million points. By using Multi city you can bring up BNE -NAN-HKG-HND for 157,200 points plud $258.
But a simple BNE-HND search on AA brings up on every day in October until the 23rd which is the last day available under the 330 day release of awards will bring up several options with BNE-NAN-HND available most days. Also some BNE- SYD-NAN-HND. all on FJ. There are too options with CX and BAvia SYD. The cost 40000 points plus ~ $50 in taxes.

There are other ways than QFF.
Getting AA points isn't that hard. credit Your QF flights to them and most CCs you can send points to a hotel program and then on to AA. many hotel chains allow you to credit AA when staying. Rental cars are another way.

Thank you for your post. As a newbie this goes over my head. Your Understanding is obviously based on years of flying so it all comes together. Which programme is AA with. Also do you have more than FF programme you’re with. How do you credit QFF points to AA. Do you book through the AA booking platform. Just trying to comprehend the connections pointed out in your post.

 

[auriga]

By the time you pay up to $2000 in carrier fees and charges on top of your award it makes paid fares an attractive option.

Yeah, some of the surcharge when using QF points are disturbingly high.

 

[drron]

AA is the Aadvantage program. You can sign up for free. At the moment there is a 50% discount on buying points but your account I believe has to have been open for a month to be able to buy points.

Also for my interest looked at SIN-LHR awards on AA. So for those that want last minute J awards to Europ in the next few months at least 2 J awards on BA 16 on 24/12 and 2 on BA12 27 and 29th December. Also 3 days in January with QR and 2 in Feb with CX.
cost 75K points + ~ $US100.
Nothing after April for 2 pax but nearly every day from then 1 award on UL and occasionally CX. same cost.

So with the current points offer 150000 points cost $US 2850 ~ $A4250. So 2 awards in J SIN'LHR for that price. Pretty cheap.

PS you can't credit QFF points to AA but if you fly on QF put your AA number in the booking and you will get AA miles.

 

[Stargazer]

There are a few tricks which can make it easier. I use AA and BA.
For example wanting to fly BNE- HND next year. Looking at mrsdrron's QFF account -she is WP - business "classic awards are all over 1 million points. By using Multi city you can bring up BNE -NAN-HKG-HND for 157,200 points plud $258.
But a simple BNE-HND search on AA brings up on every day in October until the 23rd which is the last day available under the 330 day release of awards will bring up several options with BNE-NAN-HND available most days. Also some BNE- SYD-NAN-HND. all on FJ. There are too options with CX and BAvia SYD. The cost 40000 points plus ~ $50 in taxes.

There are other ways than QFF.
Getting AA points isn't that hard. credit Your QF flights to them and most CCs you can send points to a hotel program and then on to AA. many hotel chains allow you to credit AA when staying. Rental cars are another way.

Could I seek clarification. I thought experienced FF find direct bookings point to point. But in the example above, the journey is BNE-HND. But the potential routing included BNE-NAN-HKG-HND. Or BNE-SYD-NAN-HND. Is this how it’s done. You elect to fly to interim ports in stitching together a trip? If that’s how experienced FFs put together a trip it all makes more sense now. But from a novice perspective this makes each journey long and arduous.

 

[SeatBackForward]

But from a novice perspective this makes each journey long and arduous.

Hence the often heard expression around here on AFF "Why fly direct" ? I guess different people have different value on time also.

 

[Rich]

Could I seek clarification. I thought experienced FF find direct bookings point to point. But in the example above, the journey is BNE-HND. But the potential routing included BNE-NAN-HKG-HND. Or BNE-SYD-NAN-HND. Is this how it’s done. You elect to fly to interim ports in stitching together a trip? If that’s how experienced FFs put together a trip it all makes more sense now. But from a novice perspective this makes each journey long and arduous.

I have only learnt this recently myself. When the time comes, J will make it quite bearable and J will be part of the adventure. Otherwise if it is economy I think I would rather pay to fly direct

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Could I seek clarification. I thought experienced FF find direct bookings point to point. But in the example above, the journey is BNE-HND. But the potential routing included BNE-NAN-HKG-HND. Or BNE-SYD-NAN-HND. Is this how it’s done. You elect to fly to interim ports in stitching together a trip? If that’s how experienced FFs put together a trip it all makes more sense now. But from a novice perspective this makes each journey long and arduous.

It’s quite the opposite!

FF seats can be very hard to find. While direct flights will appeal to most people, if you limit your options only to direct flights you may never get a seat!

Experienced FFers will work with what they have… scouring different programs and different airlines to put their trip together.

If you were flying economy class I’d entirely agree… spending 30 hours, or 35 hours to get somewhere would be a deal breaker. But if you are in business class and have one or two long legs in business it’s a very different proposition. You’ve had a good sleep on a flat bed, you wake up, you have breakfast followed by a shower in the lounge at your transit point… an extra flight or short hop in between two long hauls isn’t really an issue.

Direct flight awards usually open up one year before, give or take a few days. Some folk have a good idea what they’ll be doing in a year’s time. But if you miss that window, while there’ll be the odd direct flight here and there, sometimes it really is a case of stitching together an itinerary. In June I’m flying Sydney to Bali where I’ll spend a week, then fly Bali, Singapore-(Abu Dhabi)-London. That may seem convoluted but Bali-Singapore is just a couple of hours, I can do shopping in Singapore, then two long hauls with flat beds to London. Easy!

As Rich says… everything is smoothed in business class… you don’t need to queue anywhere, no worries about cabin baggage, no need to worry about who could be sitting next to you. Travel is almost enjoyable!

 

[drron]

Could I seek clarification. I thought experienced FF find direct bookings point to point. But in the example above, the journey is BNE-HND. But the potential routing included BNE-NAN-HKG-HND. Or BNE-SYD-NAN-HND. Is this how it’s done. You elect to fly to interim ports in stitching together a trip? If that’s how experienced FFs put together a trip it all makes more sense now. But from a novice perspective this makes each journey long and arduous.

The point of that post was to show how different frequent flyer programs can be. AA charge awards between or in Continents.
So on our rather too eventful WA trip I was able at short notice to get a flight back from WA GET-PER-MEL-BNE through AA for the same number of points they would charge for a PER-BNE direct flight. It was 2 J awards but the initial Geraldton flight was an all economy flight.
On QF they would add the points of each individual sector together and come up with a way higher total. plus a lot more taxes.

So why don't you sign up for a free AA account and then try out searches on routes you would like to fly. I always search for 2 awards first as we travel as a couple. But then often search for 1 award and sometimes a huge difference. We haven't done it yet but one day we might have to take different flights to our destination.

 

[serfty]

For example wanting to fly BNE- HND next year. Looking at mrsdrron's QFF account -she is WP - business "classic awards are all over 1 million points.

To be clear (and terminology is important), there are no Qantas Business "Classic" Awards available on the dates/flights you are searching being shown.

What is being presented in this case are "points plus pay" awards which basically purchase a revenue fare valuing Qantas points at much less than a cent each.

On QF they would add the points of each individual sector together and come up with a way higher total. plus a lot more taxes.

Actually Qantas add the points together for each individual "Trip" as defined in the QFF terms and condition.

A "Trip" may involve between 1 and 16 sectors.

 

[drron]

That is why I put classic in quotation marks as it is used in the Qantas table of search results.

 

[serfty]

That is why I put classic in quotation marks as it is used in the Qantas table of search results.

Yeah, Qantas are disingenuous in making punters repeatedly select "classic rewards only" to see only true fare bucket award availbility.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

As a bronze i go by the principle of I use qantas points not qantas planes.

i'm more likely to get bumped on Qantas, not so on other airlines
i'm more likely to have worse selection as others have been able to select flights that are invisible to me, not so on other airlines.

if you want to fly direct you are really really limiting yourself, you have no status effectively, you need to 'give' somewhere to get what you want, and the pathing is that give.

If you are in Business or First it is so so so so much more tolerable even if you have to bounce around. no way i'm doing economy all the way to the uk and back again, even if i have to make 5 flights instead of 2/3.

 

[Human]

As a bronze i go by the principle of I use qantas points not qantas planes.

i'm more likely to get bumped on Qantas, not so on other airlines
i'm more likely to have worse selection as others have been able to select flights that are invisible to me, not so on other airlines.

if you want to fly direct you are really really limiting yourself, you have no status effectively, you need to 'give' somewhere to get what you want, and the pathing is that give.

If you are in Business or First it is so so so so much more tolerable even if you have to bounce around. no way i'm doing economy all the way to the uk and back again, even if i have to make 5 flights instead of 2/3.

I love that principle!

A corollary is that if, like me, you have a spouse who insists on flying the most direct route, one becomes quite an expert at making plans one year ahead!

 

[drron]

Yeah, Qantas are disingenuous in making punters repeatedly select "classic rewards only" to see only true fare bucket award availbility.

Yes. Just another thing that cheeses me off about QFF. The AA rewards search is so much more user friendly. Even brings up QR availability.

 

[Rich]

As Rich says… everything is smoothed in business class

Unfortunately Rich is still flying economy. Family of 5 and bronze makes J hard to come by and to be honest too many points. When it is down to a family of 2, that will he different.

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes. Just another thing that cheeses me off about QFF. The AA rewards search is so much more user friendly. Even brings up QR availability.

Yes. Just about EVERY other airline's reward search is, ahem, "simpler and fairer"

personally I think QF's clear decision to present these revenue fares (or a.k.a Any Seat Awards) via the 'use points" toggle is probably a marketing decision ("but look. people want to know how to use their points... here we show them all those flights they can use points on!") when "use points" to most consumers means for FF rewards, aka "classic rewards" - it's pretty coughpy because you have to know to further filter on CR's or know the difference (apart from the obvious big numbers).

It's the same sort of thinking that hides booking classes, shows (actual) classic rewards but with the gotchya of "Your flight from X to Y will be in Economy" despite asking for the higher cabin just if a domestic connection happens to have availability. While it's reasonably clear, to advertise it as that higher class with just a little icon is not great) and that generally obscures useful things while forever claiming it's "Simpler and Fairer"

now the long time users know most of these tricks and know the pitfalls (until the next design change!) but it is definitely a lot of gotchyas for not so experienced folks.

Other airlines are far more transparent and user friendly to one extent or another.