Any reason to jump ship to QFF?

[Keith009]

In between thoughts of new and exciting ways to earn miles on my shiny new AMEX card and how I really need to be working on my honours thesis proposal instead of posting on here - several changes in personal circumstances have caused me to ponder over the wisdom of sticking with AAdvantage vs jumping ship to QFF.

I usually burn FF miles to position myself between stops of my DONE. Aside from that I don't really have the time or money to go on additional trips on my miles.

I have gained lots of good value awards out of AAdvantage. However since then circumstances have changed. I figured that the pot of BMI DC miles that I'm currently sitting on, as well as miles I will gain from converting AMEX points will last me for as long as I still have the time to do RTW trips. I also anticipate to do less flying once uni finishes end of this year -- unless I commence yet another course.

Between now and the end of the year when my EXP status expires, I'd be able to squeak into QF WP status with 1460 SCs. And with some flying early next year will be able to attain Partner Gold (my QFF membership year runs June-June). Hence I'm starting to think about whether QF WP might suit me better.

Those who know me will know my flying patterns well, most paid flights in J with short flights paid for out of the main DONE ticket in whY. Flight-wise I tend to fly QF whenever they operate a route as they're my carrier of choice, otherwise BA. I also do some flying in the US as I try to visit LA once a year.

The way I see it...

Advantages of QFF status:
- Less flying required to gain WP status; the flying I did last year to gain AA EXP would've been sufficient for QF WP status over 2.5 times

- More baggage allowance on QF - as I tend to shop quite a lot during my trips this will save a not insignificant sum of money on shipping/overlimit penalties

- Partner Gold will come in useful when the other half has to fly alone and in whY

- Less hold time on the phone (currently averaging at 30 mins)

- Unofficial ability to convert revenue seats into awards - the flexibility gained might just make up for the higher redemption levels and YQ

- Bonus points on BA

- A choice of AA/BA on the transatlantic due to being able to fly BA TATL (without having to go via Canada etc); sure I appreciate having EVIPs to upgrade on AA metal but I also do like the greater choice

- I can use points to upgrade on QF flights - and experience QF F more often. After that sensational experience in Feb which blew away anything other carriers have had to offer, I've been trying to find ways and means of getting back on QF F. Unfortunately I can't justify paying for revenue F and so will have to do it on upgrades and awards.

- Ability to get into Admirals Club on "domestic" itineraries in North America

- Ability to get one way awards paying only 50% of the cost

- Other little things airlines do for their own elites (eg extra recognition onboard by the CSM) - yes the little things count a lot for me.

- And of course, AA and QF might not neccessarily be alliance partners forever.

Advantages of sticking to AA EXP:
- Am half way to LTG now - yes it's only Ruby status but still something nice to have.

- Of course, the better earn/burn generally on return awards. But again like I've alluded to that doesn't necessarily determine the value of an FF program for me.

- I can supplement the mileage balance by transferring from AMEX via SPG. But I think I'd rather try different carriers award wise and use miles gained from flying to upgrade.

Any thoughts on this gratefully received.

 

[MelUser]

I take it that the LTG you refer to has the same benefits as Qantas LTG?

 

[futaris]

1MM in AAdvantage = Oneworld Ruby (Life) = QFF LTS
2MM in AAdvantage = Oneworld Sapphire (Life) = QFF LTG

 

[notzac]

Any thoughts on this gratefully received.

The big deal for me with QFF has been the easy-to-obtain status. I'd love having the better value miles that AAdvantage gets you, but a fair chunk of my miles are earnt from cards - not the easiest thing to do from Australia if I was crediting to AA.

Being able to use the Priority AAccess queues and getting Admirals Club access (as a QF Gold/Platinum) whilst in the US is definitely handy - maybe not the same recognition that you'd get as an EXP, but still, it's something.

If you're not hung up on the rubbish earn/burn rates, it's not such a bad program Which AmEx did you end up getting, out of interest?

 

[Keith009]

Which AmEx did you end up getting, out of interest?

Plat CC. No QFF points. I also don't like the idea of being locked in so didn't go for a direct sweep card. I plan to transfer points to VS and redeem on either VS or NZ (I mostly redeem ex-LHR, ex-LAX or ex-HKG).

 

[Flashback]

At a quick glance, just note that you won't be able to transfer any points to QFF.. so all the points you have sitting in QFF from flying would be the only ones.

 

[Keith009]

I take it that the LTG you refer to has the same benefits as Qantas LTG?

Hehe i wish. LTG in AAdvantage is, as pointed out, equivalent to QFF LTS. At least I then get to avoid queueing with the hoi polloi for as long as AAdvantage exists. The good thing is that any sort of miles, including bought miles, CC, miles transferred from SPG etc, count so if I simply transfer miles from AMEX via SPG every so often I can still make LT status on AA whilst earning flown miles on QFF.

 

[turtlemichael]

QF009, I can't really help you with your decision but thank you for posting that sort of comparative analysis. It's helpful to me as I contemplate what I'll do (stick with QFF or jump ship) when I achieve QFF LTG later this year.

 

[Keith009]

At a quick glance, just note that you won't be able to transfer any points to QFF.. so all the points you have sitting in QFF from flying would be the only ones.

Yes, that will suck a lot. I've thrown the supp CC miles out of the equation. However I've also factored in how much MR points I'd get and think it'd be sufficient for my needs (ie one way redemptions between DONE) for the next year or so, beyond that I don't think I'd have time to do RTWs so no more redemptions as I'd otherwise not have enough flown miles to retain status!

Was also calculating the amount of shipping costs and baggage overlimit penalties I'd save per trip with the extra baggage allowance on QF. As a kitchen sink traveler I reckon I could save around $300 each trip. This will not be useful on RTW trips of course as a lot of the flights are between non-QF ports but when I go point to point, I'd be buying QF tickets more often.

 

[simongr]

I am thinking through teh same things myself at the moment. I am sat with 400K of Amex points and a large amount of discount whY domestic travel (maybe around 30 flights this year) this year with maybe some J flights to Asia or the UK next year.

Currently I do not forsee a large increase in flying for the next 3-4 years as I establish myself in this new role so not much chance of OWE on the AA program.

With babygr just born and with one trip to the UK planned using points in Oct/Nov, I dont see a burning need for personal flights in 2010 and 2011 btu I will be doing a fair amount of domestic travel.

I have 699K program to date points on AA though (so 70% of LTG/LT OWR) so although that is a major investment - is it the best option?

My question for me personally is whether I can get OWS on domestic travel and get lounge access at all...

The earn/burn rates on AA are great if flying a lot int'l but given my flying earn will reduce - the benefit of the burn is small...

I also expect that my next personal trip will be in paid J and most likely on a cheaper carrier than QF or BA...

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Just as an observation....

To optimise the use of points it would normally mean:
*Where the class is suitable awarding flying earn to AA (and as long as one has enough paid flights to make it worthwhile).

* Putting CC earn to SQ (including Partner *A redemptions), to Cathay or QF Oneworld RTW

Your plan has the reverse..though I appreciate the benefits of Status.


With QF there is also more ability to pick-up various random points from promos (ie sign-on bonii etc). Howevere quantity wise these tend to only be nice, rather than big earn, if you fly a lot or havea very large CC earn. For those with lowish to mid erans in both though this promos can add-up to be significant.

 

[Flashback]

Do you have a QFF membership? If not, I'd recommend transferring the miles you have in your account (from all those coughtails ) and signing up to QFF via the few links around that will give you free membership until tomorrow (which is made active by transferring miles from your CC).

I'm not sure what the minimum QFF transfer is that AMEX allows though.

 

[Keith009]

I'm not optimising redemption points atm. I just need enough miles to get between "stops" on my RTW, and the MR points is more than adequate for that.

I will also look at CX's program for MR conversion, as recommended by futaris. The oneworld awards might just come in useful for places where VS or NZ don't fly to.

I'm just hoping to optimise status benefits.

I do have QFF membership. Haven't used it for a while but I logged in yesterday successfully.

 

[Keith009]

I was also thinking that since I'd soft land to AA PLT next year if I don't requalify for EXP status, it wouldn't be that big a drop should I decide that the new plan isn't working out for me and decide to regain AA EXP next year. I'd still get the 100% miles bonii crediting QF flights to AAdvantage, and emerald status in the interim from the WP card.

I've already done half my flying for this year and when I realised that I could *still* make QF WP on my remaining flights, it just struck me as how easy it really is compared to EXP.

 

[futaris]

(1) If you're a kitchen sink traveller, than having Star Alliance Gold (*G) is much better than QF WP, unless you're travelling domestically. Star Alliance Gold gives you 20kg extra on any star alliance member. QF WP will only give you 15kg, or one extra piece to USA.

(2) Star Alliance Gold is easy to get. 40k miles within 24 months credited to Asiana will give you status for up to 4 years.

(3) Star Alliance redemptions are easier to get via credit cards. More availability and more cheap options than Oneworld. If you want to redeem on Oneworld, you have to have a direct earn QANTAS card, or bounce miles into Cathay (at 4:3 from Membership Rewards) or some other program.

(4) If you're not travelling that often, why have status at all?

(5) If you're going to drop from AA EXP to AA PLT anyway, does it matter if you credit anything at all?

(6) Why credit to a different program? You're giving up miles that count towards 1MM on AA to credit towards QF, so that you can just get extra 10-15kg baggage? Calculate how many SCs you'd earn by crediting to QF. Calculate how many RDM you'd earn by crediting to AA. Which one is a greater percentage of Lifetime Oneworld Ruby? Which one is closer? Isn't it better to get lifetime status earlier in your (and the airline's) life? People were paying $4000 for QC Life, which is almost the same as OW Sapphire for life.

(7) Having status in the alliance for Y class award redemptions makes them have more value. If you have Oneworld status, redeeming for an award on Oneworld has more value than redeeming for an award on Star Alliance.

(8) Paid Oneworld RTWs are generally better "value" than Star Alliance RTWs. You can earn more miles and/or status for less cash.

(9) Would it be worth jumping ship from AAdvantage to QFF if you had lifetime OW Sapphire? Would it still be worth jumping if you had lifetime OW Ruby? Plenty of members here (and elsewhere) have jumped from QFF to AAdvantage, but I haven't heard of anyone doing it the other way around.

(10) What devaluations have happened to AAdvantage? What devaluations have happened to QFF? Which frequent flyer program is supposedly going to be "sold off" ?

About the only major reasons that I can think where crediting to QFF are better

• large credit card earning on direct QFF card
• a lot of travel in "cheap" economy classes
• a lot of travel in business/first classes (for higher SC earn)
• wanting to upgrade QF flights often, and already have/need QFF status
• like doing YUPs (or SFSC runs) for status

 

[Keith009]

Points 1 and 2 are all well and good except *G wouldn't do me any good flying QF. I do have BD*G, for all the redemption flights, that's matched but that'd expire end of the year unless the program gets incorporated into M+M in which case I get 2 more years as SEN. If I'm paying for a ticket however I will choose to fly QF as that's my personal preference product-wise. Actually i don't really care about alliances and the reason why I support oneworld is because QF (and to a lesser extent, BA) is in it; if QF is in ScaryTeam (god forbid) then I'd rather end up with some sort of ScaryTeam card than not fly QF at all. Don't really care much about the other OW carriers tbh, as I've realised after doing a few RTWs. I know lots of people here like to fly Cathay but I certainly don't unless the fare was really cheap, so YMMV.

On *A I suppose the only carrier I really liked flying is NZ, which I can still get to fly convering MR points to VS or air NZ itself. Also LH in F but at the level of 'bonus' level of miles they want from BD DC, they're kinda over valuing their product.

At the end of the day I do also agree with the general observation that product itself is more important than FF points. Whilst AAdvantage or QFF gets me on the same plane, I feel my QF experience will be enhanced using QFF, particularly when I have no need/time for many more redemptions beyond the next 12 months or so. Of course schedule and convenience are also important and I wouldn't go out of my way to the point of madness just to fly QF (eg visit somewhere I don't want to visit) but they currently do serve the places I do actually want to visit rather well and I'd fly them even if it means overnighting or a 9am wake up call. An analogy would be yes Priority Club/ICHG are the better hotel programs strictly from a accrual/redemption perspective, but their cards won't do me any good at a W or a Westin.

Other points well worth considering. I do want status because when I actually do fly, I'm more likely to fly in a class below FCL and hence emerald status would be v helpful to keep the hoi polloi away. When I said I'm anticipating a decrease in my level of flying, I meant decreasing to a level where EXP would be a touch untenable but WP still relatively easy to retain. I agree that status is most worthwhile if flying whY, however I also don't see myself paying for tickets in FCL anytime soon apart from upgrades - and I can't imagine commencing any journey outside the QF Flounges.

Point 6 is interesting. I'm currently around 500k LT miles on AA. About 2000 LT SCs on QF. Assuming I gain LT status with flying alone (which is how I usually earned anything before starting my AMEX "career"), I'd get LT status on both at about the same rate (say 1500-2100 SCs or thereabouts a year). My problem with AA is that the program doesn't give due recognition to premium cabins status wise, as the EQP for FCL to full whY are identical whereas there's a vast difference in SC earning between the different classes on QFF. If I do end up converting MR points to AA via SPG, I also have to think about whether simply aiming for LT status is the best use of MR points, or I could simply get a free flight out of it, or use points for more stays at W Hotels.

Point 10... both programs are being devalued all the time but I think to a larger extent on QFF. I think being a non-USA based AA member actually benefits me as most of the enhancements are done with an ex-USA perspective, apart from changing the way OW awards are calculated I guess. Given I'm hoping to optimise status, so long as QFF doesn't increase the status threshold greatly I'd be happy. I also don't mind if they increased redemption rates but soften the blow by increasing the status benefits (like maybe a BAEC GGL style VIP list for PG WPs, confirmed upgrades for tip tier WPs, upgrade vouchers (ala GUF2) upon reaching a certain level of SCs, or something).

No direct sweep CC as I do like choice and trying out different carriers out there from time to time. I'd be looking to travel mainly JCL, otherwise premium economy for the shorter flights. I'd be hoping to upgrade on QF flights. Not interested in a pure YUP run but wouldn't mind a more convoluted routing if i actually had to get from LAX to somewhere else in the US.

Also, i guess using QFF would open up a lot more carriers that count towards status by virtue of QF codeshares/interline agreements, such as Etihad and Air Pacific. That'd be handy for several places I've been hoping to visit.

And having typed out all of that... I think I've made my decision. :shock:

 

[simongr]

Point 10... both programs are being devalued all the time but I think to a larger extent on QFF. I think being a non-USA based AA member actually benefits me as most of the enhancements are done with an ex-USA perspective, apart from changing the way OW awards are calculated I guess. Given I'm hoping to optimise status, so long as QFF doesn't increase the status threshold greatly I'd be happy. I also don't mind if they increased redemption rates but soften the blow by increasing the status benefits (like maybe a BAEC GGL style VIP list for PG WPs, confirmed upgrades for tip tier WPs, upgrade vouchers (ala GUF2) upon reaching a certain level of SCs, or something).

QF doesnt have real competition here in Oz to draw in elites - many just join as they are Australians and they fly QF so do not expect protection from devaluation of both status benefits and redemption rates.

I actually think you will gain as well given your flights USA-EUR will be on BA or AA and at least you can earn on both. Another benefit is the earning of status bonus on BA under QF which youdon't under AA.

If my travel increases in the long term with this employer (as it is UK owned) I am more likely to be going to the UK on direct flights so I might then switch back to QFF. I have lounge access until Feb 2011 and my company would pay for access to QP if I lost status completely but I expect 2011 might be the year of increased travel... Seems like I have made the opposite choice QF009

 

[drron]

QF009 you are brilliant.I am going to owe you one!having fallen to AA plat this year after having to cancel the end of year Asian trip the thing I am going to miss most is Flounge access.Upgrades to F on QF would not be important as I would always need 2 and I doubt that would happen very often anyway.
My upcoming DONE4 would earn 1080 Scs so only a little effort to get to WP from there.Now with the GFC I will need to credit with AA to retain plat there but mrsdrron could credit to QF and a return J trip to Asia at the end of the year should get her to WP and hey presto Flounge access again!
I can still credit to AA as I accumulate miles to get premium awards and this is so much easier to do with AA and using diners as my primary CC I have no difficulty transferring CC points to AA.As I am now at 808000 LTM and will get EVIPs for passing 1 million miles I will enjoy the best of both worlds in 2010.
Once again thanks for making me think!
By the way I personally,knowing a little of your preferences from your TRs,think it is probably wise for you to make the switch to QFF.

 

[Keith009]

Yes drron, after working on my SC tally spreadsheet - I can't believe how easy it is to get/keep WP. From what's left of my existing DONE4 (7 segments) and the first few segments of the next DONE4, that's WP status for July09-June2010 (and possibly PG if all the currently 'maybe' trips become confirmed). And that's after having credited all my flying thus far this calendar year to AA.

Then I noticed that what's left of the next DONE4 is more than sufficient to retain WP for the next membership year! :shock: Could even get rid of the Middle East runaround, but there's a W in Doha mmmm.

Made me wonder how much closer I'd be to LTS at least on QFF now had I credited everything to QFF since I commenced DONE4ing...

 

[simongr]

I can still credit to AA as I accumulate miles to get premium awards and this is so much easier to do with AA and using diners as my primary CC I have no difficulty transferring CC points to AA.As I am now at 808000 LTM and will get EVIPs for passing 1 million miles I will enjoy the best of both worlds in 2010.

This is where you have the advantage using teh Diners card and your special bonus earning - I can't remember why you get bonuses (apart from triple point Wednesday). It would be tempting for me to make the switch back to Diners for this reason...

On a base card for A$100K spend you get:

100K Diners points -> 50K SPG points -> 60K AA points

Which is about the same as Amex - 101K spend:

152K Amex -> 50K SPG -> 60K AA

But again I now flip flop....

$100K spend on Amex = 150K QFF points

So are 150K QFF points better than 60K AA points?