The COVID-19 vaccine rollout in Australia has begun

Ok let us fast forward to when Australia has achieved whatever the deemed acceptable vaccination rate is (ie 70%, 80 %, 90 % ......whatever it is).

Travel resumes and we start living with covid rather than in a bubble.

But what does this mean Covid health wise?
Looking at those countries with high vaccination rates it is known that the various vaccines used/ to be used in Australia are very good but is also known that some people who have been vaccinated will still become infected including that some will require hospitalisation or even die. Plus there will be those who have not been vaccination for various reasons. Some through choice, and some because they cannot.

Now it is a guess as to what that it will those adverse health outcomes will be in terms of numbers. But it may well be say what we have had with the flu in recent times pre-pandemic times.

Speaking of the flu, the other point is that once we resume more normal lives, including international travel, that flu hospitalisations and deaths are going to return.

So the new Covid-post-vaccination normal will include both deaths and hospitalisations from Covid and the Flu.


This is taken as a given, as being perfectly acceptable.

Yet those numbers will absolutely dwarf the adverse health outcomes from getting vaccinated for Covid, even if the bulk of the population received AZ.


So personally I do not at all understand the logic of saying that AZ should not be given as a tiny number of adverse outcomes will result, when it is deemed perfectly acceptable that we are going to accept a much greater occurrence of adverse outcomes from the diseases of the flu and covid.

If the latter hospilisation and mortality rates are acceptable, why are we needlessly delaying it now? It defies logic.

If the latter is acceptable, why are we maintaining the bubble for much longer than it needs to be?
 
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Wasn't watching but I can probably imagine the kind of foot in mouth performance she managed.
It wasn't foot and mouth. She blatantly said don't get AZ if you're under 60.

Queensland has asked for extra Pfizer.

Federal government as already said no.

Was the QLD CHO not AP. She can’t make up that stuff herself. They quoted an online BBC article I mean are they serious?!

And they are attacking the Feds for the decision... using it for political point scoring. Disgusting. They are panicking because they have made some awful decisions and trying to deflect. We just need to ignore QLD for four more months.

4 more months and Dr Young is kapoot....
No it was AP, I was listening live just now.
 
AMA rep in SA has rather reshaped the message and said AZ is fine as long as you've had the discussion with GP and understand any risks.
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Yes plus the extra screening will help to remove some of the people who may have been more likely to have an adverse event.
 
Wasn't watching but I can probably imagine the kind of foot in mouth performance she managed.

Oh it was all four of them. It was horrifying. If you don’t like your TV and want to throw a brick through it, rewatch it.

A lovely mix of lies, casual racism and ignorance just desperately trying to defect that a lot of this was our own mess.

Answers to many journalists questions quite rightly taking them to task was the classic ‘I don’t have those details’

Mind numbing.
 
Many really good points in this opinion piece. I’m in my 20s and I had my AstraZeneca shot last week - note that Jun Tong (the author) is a researcher in biology at the University of Queensland.

Opinion Piece -

Last Friday, I visited a vaccination clinic to request the AstraZeneca vaccine. There was no queue. I had a brief argument with the receptionist about my eligibility and persuaded them to let me discuss it with the GP in charge, considering how quiet it was. The doctor was willing to administer the vaccine and explained, for a very small proportion of recipients, it can cause harmful blood clots, especially for people in my age group: I’m in my 20s. I was only too happy to accept the risk.
On Monday, the Australian government decided to give all Australian adults access to the AstraZeneca vaccine, which has been approved by the TGA for use for anyone over 18 since February. This invitation includes under-40s who, up until now, have not been welcomed into the vaccine rollout. The Prime Minister said on Monday night: “If [under-40s] are willing to go and speak to their doctor and have access to the AstraZeneca vaccine, they can do so.” This is great news. However, the Prime Minister should have gone one step further and encouraged all Australians, including those under 40, to take the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Jun Tong walked into a clinic last week and had an AstraZeneca jab.
The AstraZeneca vaccine is the only realistic and available option today for most Australians. Eighty per cent of our supply in the next few weeks will be AstraZeneca. It works well: data from Britain and from clinical trials show that it protects almost all recipients against hospitalisation and death. While the risk of clotting is real, it is very rare. Taking this vaccine urgently is the responsible thing to do when our neighbours in Indonesia, Fiji, and India are experiencing horrific waves of COVID infections. Once immunised, we should direct our future supplies to them. Taking the vaccine also hastens the restoration of our freedoms, opens our borders, and protects against further infringements of our rights.
We have two vaccines available today: the AstraZeneca vaccine and another by Pfizer. The former is produced locally in Melbourne and we have it in abundance: from July, 2.2 million new doses will be produced each week. The Pfizer vaccine is imported and its supply is currently constrained, with only about a tenth of the AstraZeneca supply. Pfizer stocks will ramp up to 1.7 million doses per week but not until October. If most Australians wait for Pfizer, many will not be vaccinated until next year. AstraZeneca is critical if we are to seriously protect ourselves against COVID-19 before the end of this year.

Both vaccines are similarly effective. Last week, Public Health England released data showing that the AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines prevented 92 per cent and 96 per cent of vaccinated people against hospitalisation from the Delta variant of COVID-19, the most harmful variant to date. There is some evidence that Pfizer may be better at preventing symptomatic COVID than AstraZeneca, but hospitalisations and deaths are the critical measure of protection, and on these two counts, both vaccines are excellent and comparable.
It is worth understanding the risks from AstraZeneca thoroughly. The Commonwealth’s vaccine advisory group, ATAGI, declared this month that the Pfizer vaccine is the preferred option for Australians under the age of 60 because of the risk of rare blood clots, which is more pronounced for younger AstraZeneca recipients. ATAGI reasons that as Australia has few cases of COVID-19 today, the risks outweigh the benefits.

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Officials say it is ‘absolutely critical’ that Australians follow through with their second AstraZeneca jab, despite the cut off age being raised.
The risk of blood clots from the vaccine is real but very rare: about six cases of clotting per million people vaccinated. Of these clotting cases, about 10 per cent of them are fatal, according to Paul Menagle, professor of haematology at the University of Melbourne. However, doctors are becoming better at treating these clots and as a result, Professor Menagle presumes that the fatality rate “will come down further”. He adds: “It’s not the uniformly catastrophic disease that was originally presented.“
While it is right for ATAGI to make their decision on a clinical basis – and for that reason it is necessarily very conservative – the situation and seriousness of the pandemic globally means that every unvaccinated person should consider taking the AstraZeneca vaccine, so long as they appreciate the risks and can give informed consent.
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We must use our large stock of vaccines quickly to help bring the global pandemic to an end. It is a miracle to find ourselves in the privileged position of being able to manufacture 2.2 million doses a week of a high-quality, low-risk vaccine at $5 a dose. Australia should use this resource wisely to prevent suffering and contribute to ending the pandemic. The period between when a dose of vaccine is produced to its injection into someone’s arm should be as brief as possible.
It is selfish of us to leave life-saving vaccines in fridges, as our neighbours are battling waves of high case numbers. Indonesia recorded over 20,000 new cases on Saturday as reports describe COVID-infected patients being turned away from hospitals. Fiji has a population of 900,000 but as of this week, is recording more than 200 infections per day and rising. Both these countries are facing their highest case numbers ever. India is recovering from a horrific wave of infections, experiencing 4,000 deaths a day in late May. How can we justify leaving vaccines unused while our neighbours suffer?

Taking up a vaccine we have in abundance today also brings forward the date when we can restore our freedoms and rights. Lockdowns and restrictions are severe impositions. They have worked to keep Australia COVID-free but they are expensive, with the costs unevenly borne by the young, those with insecure work, and small businesses. School shutdowns degrade the mental health of children and stymie their education. Border closures have painfully separated families and friends from each other for the past 18 months. They have also kept us away from the world and the world from us, leaving us more impoverished economically and culturally. They are not easy things to recover from and it is unjustifiable to leave vaccines in the fridge when these restrictions are in place.
What’s more, our government has fallen afoul of international human rights law. Article 13 of the UN’s Human Rights Declaration provides every citizen the right to leave one’s own country and to move freely within its borders. Our political leaders have never acknowledged this. Violating Article 13 may be justified to keep COVID-19 at bay but immediate vaccination offers a clear and quick path to restoring free movement. Rights are easily given up but are difficult to regain. As a recent example, consider the ban on our citizens returning from India. Or the use of QR code check-in data by police, something that our state governments had promised would not happen.

This pandemic is a defining moment for Australia. Compared with previous crises, the demands on us are slight: we must take the vaccine we have available as quickly as possible and bear the very small risk of adverse effects. There is no smaller sacrifice.
Jun Tong is a researcher in biology at the University of Queensland.
 
No it was AP, I was listening live just now.

The words came out of her mouth but it was the QLD CHO who gave her the words.

She opposed the push led by Chant and Sutton and seems to be very pissed off for being left behind.

Anyway they are DESPERATELY trying to deflect from all their messes they’ve made up here. It’s pathetic.

The hospital mess is on QLD Health, again. Thankfully the press are crucifying them on that and the processes they have for moving people to the covid wards.

It’s a hot mess up here, best to ignore us for a while.
 
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The risks of COVID are substantial with about 3% of all Australians who contracted COVID dying from the disease

That statistic is heavily skewed by the older people who died when Covid got into aged care in Victoria's second wave - the average age of people who died with Covid (I will not say from as most also had comorbidities) was 85. The risk for under 50s in Australia is well below 1%.


There is no such thing as "real world" evidence of safety and effectiveness

Of course there is, we have it with the current vaccines. After the trials, other countries like UK and US gave emergency approvals and started using Pfizer, Moderna, AZ etc months before we did in Australia. We got the benefit of seeing when used in the real world across a much broader set of ethnicities etc how it performed vs what the trials showed.

You have twisted a comment about observing real world usage in other jurisdictions with an approval process that I never mentioned. My post was about your average person, not regulators.

Virtually no one wants to be the guinea pig / first person to take a a new drug/vaccine that hasn't been in wide use unless they are absolutely desperate i.e. dying.
 
Wow, QLD presser is a debacle. “Do not take the AZ if you are under 40, wait for Pfizer”

Agree - she’s lost the plot. She was literally spitting.

They are all getting GRILLED which is a nice change. Seems like the truce with the media is OFF big time.
 
So personally I do not at all understand the logic of saying that AZ should not be given as a tiny number of adverse outcomes will result, when it is deemed perfectly acceptable that we are going to accept a much greater occurrence of adverse outcomes from the diseases of the flu and covid.

Its simple really, the younger people most likely to get AZ induced TTS are not the same people who are most likely to get seriously ill or die from the flu or Covid. That is the problem with talking in totals.

If you are one for the unfortunate people who get AZ induced TTS and end up in hospital or ICU or dead then you'd feel differently about being asked to take one for the team, especially where there are alternate vaccines providing equivalent (actually slight better) protection from Covid that do not carry the TTS risk.

The key is choice and control. With other vaccines including the Flu vax (there are at least 4 this year) as adults we have a choice.
 
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I think the QLD government has done a great deal of damage just now, it is really upsetting.

I have no words.
 
I also suspect someone is getting fired soon.

Probably the health minister because the CHO is already being ‘moved on’...
I don't think so, I think this is all AP's doing, she personally avoided AZ and got Pfizer
 
What is highly amusing is that over and over again last night on the Drum, 7:30 and multiple news programs the younger people interviewed about AZ have said they do not have a regular GP and had to shop around to find any one to request AZ.

The guidance from the National Cabinet is that you should get "advice" from "your" GP before going against ATAGI recommendation and making an informed consent decision to get AZ. Are these GPs taking a full medical history, giving you a physical and having an in depth discussion re pros and cons - or are they just rubber stamping a form due to having indemnity?

I've been saying for months that the reason the mass vac centres are more popular with those of working age is because if they don't have chronic conditions needing regulars GP visits, they dont have a GP.
 
I don't think so, I think this is all AP's doing, she personally avoided AZ and got Pfizer

Oh and our CHO.... ;)

Anyway what does it matter they are all as hopeless as each other.

Im very thankful that the last thing a NSW or VIC resident will do is listen to the advice from a QLDer, especially one that came across as unhinged as all of them just now!

I hope my fellow residents up don’t pay too much attention as well.... Thankfully the people doing the vaccinating actually don’t report to the state CHO anyway :)
 
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Its simple really, the younger people most likely to get AZ induced TTS are not the same people who are most likely to get seriously ill or die from the flu or Covid. That is the problem with talking in totals.

So people who get TTS are somehow more important than other people? Please explain

And the total people hospitalised/dead from vaccinations are not as important as the people who will be so from either the flu or covid once we open up?


Even ignoring that younger people do get hospitalised and die from the flu, the sheer likely number of combined deaths and hospitalisations once we open up again will dwarf the number of adverse events from our entire vaccination program.
 
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