State border closures illegal under the highest law in the country?

[bigbadbyrnes]

Everything is arguable in law, doubly so in constitutional law. This is a matter for the high court.

But here's my opening argument;

Section 92 of the highest law in the country sets out "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free. "

Per Cole vs Whitfield 1988 "The notions of absolutely free trade and commerce and absolutely free intercourse are quite distinct". Sec92 clearly sets out the law for interstate trade, but also 'intercourse'.

And on the matter of what intercourse means, per Gratwick v Johnson 1945 it's the ability "to pass to and fro among the States without burden, hindrance or restriction".

Border closures, (and arguably although less certainly isolation requirements), are therefore inconsistent with the highest law in the country and should be set aside.

No one is talking about it, any legal eagles here explain? There's no room on the news for this at the moment, but if people start to fed up with the restrictions, it's worth getting them tested in the high court.

edit:

I think this analysis will answer all your questions: States are shutting their borders to stop coronavirus. Is that actually allowed?

Short version: if there are good public health grounds (for example states of emergency), those laws are likely to be held valid.

Could be worth testing if an individual could be proven to be not a thread to public health, but that would be the exception. Thanks MEL_Traveller for sharing the article.

/thread

 

[trevella]

There does happen to be one heck of a lot more cases outside Australia's borders than within them.

Which is of course true for every single place in the world at every level of granularity.

And every disease.

 

[drron]

All it takes is one person. Whether they fly in or drive across a border, it's still 'just one'.

Which is why we need very good contact tracing,strict enforcement of quarantine and lots of testing which is much more effective than lockdowns as demonstrated in Taiwan, South Korea and ,apart from the foreign worker blind spot, Singapore.
This virus is going to be around for quite some time,the vaccine may not be particularly effective so if you keep the borders closed in case 1 person slips through you will end up with a destroyed economy and almost certainly more deaths from suicide plus delayed diagnoses of cancer and cardiovascular disease.

 

[jakeseven7]

Annastacia Palaszczuk’s border closure was a political ploy that paid off, but she stuffed it

Make no mistake – Annastacia Palaszczuk’s decisions on Queensland’s border closures have little to do with science, expert medical advice and infection control.

Her Government’s shocking and potentially deadly double standards prove this point.

It was just sheer good fortune that it worked well for her. That is, until the past few weeks.

Just days before her baby died from complications, that same heartbroken mum was told – via a press conference – that “Queensland hospitals are for Queenslanders” by Palaszczuk.

She makes politically convenient or advantageous moves, acting based on what’s best for her and her power, and not for the people of her state.

You’ll notice a pattern too – whenever there’s criticism of the Premier in the press, she’ll dodge media conferences and the daily COVID briefing and leave it to her deputy and the chief health officer instead.

If you’re going to make major calls that impact the economic and social stability of your citizens, at least have the cajones to front up and justify your decisions.

Annastacia Palaszczuk’s border war is pure shameless politics

OPINION

www.news.com.au

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Which is why we need very good contact tracing,strict enforcement of quarantine and lots of testing which is much more effective than lockdowns as demonstrated in Taiwan, South Korea and ,apart from the foreign worker blind spot, Singapore.
This virus is going to be around for quite some time,the vaccine may not be particularly effective so if you keep the borders closed in case 1 person slips through you will end up with a destroyed economy and almost certainly more deaths from suicide plus delayed diagnoses of cancer and cardiovascular disease.

I can't see why we are penalised in being banned from travelling overseas, but states are forced to open borders?

If the Feds - and businesses - want state borders open, then let us travel overseas! (Even by your examples... let us travel to Taiwan, Sth Korea and Singapore at the very least!)

Otherwise it smacks of double standards.

 

[jakeseven7]

QLD premier accused of using pandemic for election campaign - ‘60 days to keep QLD borders safe’

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk has been accused of putting her re-election bid ahead of the welfare of citizens, with her party telling supporters there will be no change to the border policy until after the October 31 poll.

As the feud between NSW and Queensland over unaligned border closures intensified on Wednesday, NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian and Ms Palaszczuk had their first discussion about the issue.

"I would hate to think the upcoming election in Queensland would have a detrimental impact on the health and livelihoods of people," .

Ms Berejiklian on Wednesday called for more compassion during the pandemic from the Queensland premier.

Border closures will be the key issue at Friday's national cabinet meeting, where Prime Minister Scott Morrison will urge the states to phase out border controls that are being blamed for prolonging the recession.

'60 days to keep Queensland borders safe': the political row over borders

The Queensland Labor Party has told supporters there will be no change to the border rules until after the state's October 31 poll.

www.smh.com.au

 

[drron]

I can't see why we are penalised in being banned from travelling overseas, but states are forced to open borders?

If the Feds - and businesses - want state borders open, then let us travel overseas! (Even by your examples... let us travel to Taiwan, Sth Korea and Singapore at the very least!)

Otherwise it smacks of double standards.

Ah something we agree upon.We should be able to take the risk of OS travel as long as we accept on return that 14 day quarantine which we pay for is mandatory.
I've thought about it and that quarantine should probably be booked and paid for before leaving as I can foresee some going overseas then complaining on return they can't afford the hotel quarantine.So it should also be non cancellable.

Even if this system was in place I am not sure I would use it though I do have family OS so it just might become something I would do.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk has been accused of putting her re-election bid ahead of the welfare of citizens, with her party telling supporters there will be no change to the border policy until after the October 31 poll.

That concept doesn't make sense. You're not going to get re-elected if you ignore the welfare of your citizens.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Ah something we agree upon.We should be able to take the risk of OS travel as long as we accept on return that 14 day quarantine...

It's risky every time any of us travel overseas. People go to Bali and hire motor bikes without a licence, and without a helmet. But the Federal government doesn't ban travel to Indonesia. Similarly with a whole host of other nasties we could catch, like malaria. But we aren't banned on that basis.

 

[jakeseven7]

Premiers are playing politics with coronavirus-induced hard borders ahead of National Cabinet

That old adage "never get between a premier and a bucket of money" has become 'never get between a premier and a COVID election'.

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk, two months from polling day, has been acting with the sort of single-minded political determination and ruthlessness that Scott Morrison might identify with in more normal circumstances.

Several tragic medical and hardship cases, exacerbated by confusion and poor management, have brought sharp attacks on the Queensland CHO and Government, including from the PM.

Morrison finds Andrews personally easier than Palaszczuk to deal with. The relationship seems to endure the regular touch-ups the Federal Government gives Victoria. Berejiklian has also found Palaszczuk difficult.

Maybe this is a personality thing, but it's also likely driven by the tensions around Queensland's imminent election.

Palaszczuk is totally focused on survival.

Defiant premiers are playing hardball with hard borders ahead of today's National Cabinet meeting

That old adage "never get between a premier and a bucket of money" has become "never get between a premier and a COVID election", writes Michelle Grattan.

mobile.abc.net.au

 

[Seat0B]

Ah something we agree upon.We should be able to take the risk of OS travel as long as we accept on return that 14 day quarantine which we pay for is mandatory.
I've thought about it and that quarantine should probably be booked and paid for before leaving as I can foresee some going overseas then complaining on return they can't afford the hotel quarantine.So it should also be non cancellable.

Even if this system was in place I am not sure I would use it though I do have family OS so it just might become something I would do.

Strongly agree with you @drron. I'd do this so I could see my boy in Dubai. If I knew in advance where I would quarantine, I could arrange grocery drops, a comfort package and the ability to work. Looks like that could be a new travel service for the future...

 

[jakeseven7]

'We have to worry': Qantas, Virgin bosses dials up pressure on state premiers


Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce has issued a dire prediction for Australia's tourism industry if state borders remain closed, warning holidaymakers will have no reason to travel and regional tourism operators are set to collapse.

Mr Joyce dialled up the pressure on state premiers ahead of Friday's national cabinet meeting, urging them to provide transparent medical advice about border closures.

"At the moment there seems to be no fact-based criteria [about] which borders are opening and closing," he said at a CAPA Centre for Aviation industry summit, held online on Wednesday afternoon.


"I hope in national cabinet on Friday we start defining hotspots, which is then putting the science in play," the Qantas boss said. "Then we have certainty and all those [tourism] businesses have certainty when borders will open and when they will close."

Virgin Australia chief executive Paul Scurrah echoed the push for more clarity and transparency.

"I do support Alan Joyce on his urging for medical fact-based decision making around borders. It doesn't really make sense to have multiple basically COVID-free cities not being able to connect with each other," Mr Scurrah said.

'We have to worry': Qantas boss dials up pressure on border closures

Alan Joyce warns holidaymakers will have no reason to travel and tourism operators will disappear if state borders remain closed.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Pushka]

Strongly agree with you @drron. I'd do this so I could see my boy in Dubai. If I knew in advance where I would quarantine, I could arrange grocery drops, a comfort package and the ability to work. Looks like that could be a new travel service for the future...

I think where family separation and visits are involved, you would have a business right there. The casual vacationer, not so much.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

'We have to worry': Qantas, Virgin bosses dials up pressure on state premiers


Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce has issued a dire prediction for Australia's tourism industry if state borders remain closed, warning holidaymakers will have no reason to travel and regional tourism operators are set to collapse.

Mr Joyce dialled up the pressure on state premiers ahead of Friday's national cabinet meeting, urging them to provide transparent medical advice about border closures.

"At the moment there seems to be no fact-based criteria [about] which borders are opening and closing," he said at a CAPA Centre for Aviation industry summit, held online on Wednesday afternoon.


"I hope in national cabinet on Friday we start defining hotspots, which is then putting the science in play," the Qantas boss said. "Then we have certainty and all those [tourism] businesses have certainty when borders will open and when they will close."

Virgin Australia chief executive Paul Scurrah echoed the push for more clarity and transparency.

"I do support Alan Joyce on his urging for medical fact-based decision making around borders. It doesn't really make sense to have multiple basically COVID-free cities not being able to connect with each other," Mr Scurrah said.

'We have to worry': Qantas boss dials up pressure on border closures

Alan Joyce warns holidaymakers will have no reason to travel and tourism operators will disappear if state borders remain closed.

www.smh.com.au

This is business talking, and doesn’t address the health issues

It’s also predicated on nothing more than giving people ‘a reason’ to travel. There’s no guarantee people *will* travel, even if borders are opened up. So it’s asking people, and state governments to take a huge gamble... open up borders on the demands of big business with no guarantees of outcome, vs addressing the real health issues, medical advice, and looking at how stretched and exhausted our front line health professional are.

 

[Pushka]

This is business talking, and doesn’t address the health issues

It’s also predicated in nothing more than giving people ‘a reason’ to travel. There’s no guarantee people *will* travel, even if borders are opened up. So it’s asking people, and state governments to take a huge gamble... open up borders on the demands of big business with no guarantees of outcome, vs addressing the real health issues, medical advice, and looking at how stretched and exhausted our front line health professional are.

You are therefore proposing an elimination strategy. That will never happen. It will always be here. And other than Victoria which in reality has few people requiring intensive care, no other state should have COVID exhausted medical people. Because the majority of states are zero and most are not handled in hospital.

 

[jakeseven7]

Breaking news apparently AP has chucked a hissy fit and tanked the national cabinet moving forward?? Just heard on radio?!!

EDIT:

There will be an press conference at 1:15 to run through what happened.

BREAKING:

@ScottMorrisonMP
has declared national cabinet will “no longer be run on a consensus approach” after QLD refused to agree to a national definition of hotspots to reopen borders

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301713047598235648

 

[Must...Fly!]

I wrote a few insults regarding the honourable premiers in QLD & WA before I realised this isn't the place. But the strong feeling & reaction has not gone away.

I suspect myself (& many others in similar positions) will not be reunited with families either side of the WA border (and probably others) until mid-2021.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You are therefore proposing an elimination strategy. That will never happen. It will always be here. And other than Victoria which in reality has few people requiring intensive care, no other state should have COVID exhausted medical people. Because the majority of states are zero and most are not handled in hospital.

Not proposing elimination at all! But we are only a few months into this.

There are potential vaccines, several in stage three trials. There are potential cures or treatments being trialled. Some experts are saying the virus is mutating into less virulent strains (the stronger strains also kill their host, making them less able to survive). We are constantly learning more about how to manage vulnerable and risky situations

All of those things need time to play out.

Other states may have the virus under control for now, but that can change overnight. A couple more months will give time for all of the above things to progress, at least stage three trials, and potential treatments.

 

[jakeseven7]

Killer question just posed to Scomo - 'Should states who are imposing border restrictions without consensus on medical guidabce and inflicting damage on their own economies/industries carry more of the cost burden to support them?'.

He is carefully directing these questions to the respective states....

The press gallery is going to SLAUGHTER the QLD government when AP comes out from hiding.... she is going to have to actually front some of these questions...

Other killer questions - ' Is QLD's medical advice sound in terms of advising on border restrictions?'...... Ouch....

EDIT:

Gladys has popped up now doing a press conference directly after Scomo, she's taking the 'I'm compassionate and coming from a national approach to fighting this now' line which squares her off v AP again. She directly called on AP to rethink her 'approach'....

 

[jakeseven7]

Berejiklian says no hot spots in NSW, all borders should be gone by Christmas

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian said that her state currently had no areas which should be described as hot spots, and that people should be free to visit other parts of Australia.

"If you look at the specific definition which national cabinet is considering, at this point in time, there wouldn't be anywhere in NSW as of today that would be defined as a formal hot spot."

She said south-west and western Sydney remained as areas of concern, but that she was happy with the way the state was progressing.

“There shouldn't be an excuse for any state to have a border that isn't open with NSW,” she said, in a thinly veiled attack on her QLD counterpart.

“If the trends continue the way they are, I don’t think any state border should exist by Christmas.”

As the day unfolded: Scott Morrison reveals national cabinet to no longer operate on consensus basis as Victoria records 81 new COVID-19 cases; Australian death toll jumps to 737

National cabinet was unable to come to a unanimous agreement to create a national coronavirus hotspot definition to reopen borders.

www.theage.com.au

 

[jakeseven7]

Read between the lines, Dr Young is about to have alot of medical peers having sensible 'chats' with her shortly and providing her some support....

---------
Queensland to continue to use controversial '28-day rule' until December

Prime Minister Scott Morrison says Queensland will continue to use its "28 days of no community transmission" rule when deciding whether a region is a hotspot, until the nationally agreed upon definition comes into force in December.

"The definition that we provided is obviously the one that I think is appropriate," Mr Morrison said when asked about Queensland's hard borders.

The Prime Minister said Acting Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly would work closely with the states and territories for greater precision and alignment around the definition.

Asked if it was medically sensible for Queensland's hard border to be in place, particularly in relation to regional NSW, Professor Kelly diplomatically declined to comment, instead saying the hotspot definition would provide greater transparency in decision making.

"We have to start off a hot spot definition so that is what we are working on so that we can get that absolute clarity about these matters," he said.

As the day unfolded: Scott Morrison reveals national cabinet to no longer operate on consensus basis as Victoria records 81 new COVID-19 cases; Australian death toll jumps to 737

National cabinet was unable to come to a unanimous agreement to create a national coronavirus hotspot definition to reopen borders.

www.theage.com.au