Call for no-go zone after another Qantas forced landing

[Mal]

Call for no-go zone after another Qantas forced landing - Travel - smh.com.au

ANOTHER Qantas plane has suffered problems with its navigation system near a military installation on Western Australia's north-west coast, forcing the jet to return to Perth and raising fresh questions about whether electrical interference from signals is to blame.

Qantas confirmed yesterday that flight QF71, which was bound for Singapore with 277 passengers, returned to Perth soon after taking off last Saturday after a coughpit alert said there was a problem with the plane's navigation system near Carnarvon.

 

[oz_mark]

Call for no-go zone after another Qantas forced landing - Travel - smh.com.au

I don't think the issue was with the navigation system last time.

 

[markis10]

Most of the military is in shut down at present, I wonder if its not the Australian military installations causing the issues but the former US Navy comms base which is now a joint asset, ironically operated by.......Boeing :shock:

 

[oz_mark]

Given the number of flights that have flown over it over the years without incident, methinks it's just a coinkydinks.

 

[N860CR]

There is a restricted area around said installation anyway. At the signals strongest point it extends up to flight levels and gradually lowers as you move further away.

I'd say its just another slow news day...

 

[comint]

At the signals strongest point it extends up to flight levels and gradually lowers as you move further away.

Is this installation involved in testing/deploying new American technology, in regards to undetectable submarine communications... the type that is accused of causing marine mammal death/disorientation?

 

[pauly7]

I'd say its just another slow news day...

I agree. No doubt its QF's fault anyway for flying that way hehe (jokes)

 

[rwatts]

Is this installation involved in testing/deploying new American technology, in regards to undetectable submarine communications... the type that is accused of causing marine mammal death/disorientation?

If it was, I'm sure we wouldnt know about it. I thought most of the marine life problems came from high-powered sonar type applications. As far as I know the ironically named Harold E Holt naval communications station uses conventional (but very powerful) VLF radio for submarine comms (as well as the usual satellite and other network links).

Given its been operating for over thirty years, there would have to have been somewhat of a change to suddenly start causing aviation problems.

Richard.

 

[Mal]

Given its been operating for over thirty years, there would have to have been somewhat of a change to suddenly start causing aviation problems.

As a highly classified site though, would people know if they were playing with new technology or using other communications methods?

 

[trooper]

Didn't the US Navy ELF installation at Clam Lake MI close down in 2004?

As a result I'd be surprised to find any (new?) installation here...???

ELF transmissions require very specific (and large) antenna arrays to transmit at around 70Hz.. (compare that to just about any other form of radio comms!!).. are these in evidence in Australia?

ELF was never "undetectable"... transmissions on it were coded just like any other military radio comms... the limitations of ELF of course meant only very, very short messages (short code groups) could be received by subs.. and it was a one way street.. due to (again) the specific antenna requirements and the power needed to transmit....

The original US ELF system ("Sanguine") was apparently the subject of a number of studies... including one by M Bene**** and B Greenberg in 1974 (new technology?) "The Sanguine Biological-Ecological research Program" which concluded that :

"research results to date show no indication that exposure to ELF field levels associated with a Sanguine system would have any effect on biological or ecological systems"

..but I can't vouch for that beyond quoting the summary..

Just find myself reacting to that "accused of" line.. Anyone can accuse anyone or anything of... well... anything... and the only references to ELF damage to sea life I can find tend to be.. well.. "fringe/conspiracy" type stuff to be polite about it.... ..so references to reputable studies would be welcome...:!:

I wonder if some of these folks have got mixed up and equate SONAR with ELF transmissions? Given the nature of active sonar and the power output levels achieved I can well believe IT could have a deleterious effect...but then active sonar is used sparingly and for very short periods IME...

P.S. How very amusing! If you try to use someones name here.. and it contains the letter combination Delta India Charlie Kilo it gets ****'ed out as being rude!!!

 

[rwatts]

Its very hard to hide the nature of the communications when you have seven masts, one at about 387m high and the other six at around 304m. They sort of stand out a little on the landscape and one can infer a lot about frequencies etc when you can see the antennae. At least with cm and mm wavelengths one can chuck a radome around them to hide from prying eyes (eg the now defunct "joint" facility at Narrungar).

Whilst obviously the content of the messages passing through Harold E Holt has always been classified (thats what high grade cryptography is for), I dont believe the nature of the transmissions ever were.

Richard.

 

[oz_mark]

Seems it actually was out old friend ADIRU1, Maybe we do have our very own Bermuda Triangle

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau was advised on 27 December 2008 of an occurrence that day involving a Qantas Airbus A330-300 aircraft while in cruise at FL360 (36,000 ft) enroute from Perth to Singapore.

At about 0829 UTC (1729 Local Time), the autopilot disconnected and the crew received an ECAM message (NAV IR 1 Fault) indicating a problem with ADIRU Number 1. The crew actioned the Airbus Operations
Engineering Bulletin (OEB) procedure by selecting the IR 1 push-button to OFF and the ADR 1 push-button to OFF. Both OFF lights illuminated. The crew elected to return to Perth and an uneventful overweight landing was conducted. At the time that the autopilot disconnected, the aircraft was approximately 260 nautical miles (NM) North-West of Perth airport and approximately 350 NM South of Learmonth airport.

It is very early in the investigation and too soon to draw any conclusions as to specific causal factors involved in this incident. As it appears to be a similar event to a previous event involving an A330 aircraft (AO-2008-070 on 7 Oct 2008) it will be included as part of the earlier investigation. The ATSB investigation will explore all aspects of the operation of the aircraft, including examination of recorded data, and any commonalities with past occurrences.

MEDIA RELEASE : 02 January 2009 - Qantas Airbus A330 incident, 480km North West of Perth on 27 December 2008

 

[comint]

Maybe we do have our very own Bermuda Triangle

I have obviously become quite neurotic enough about being onboard a Qantas Airbus & falling out of the sky, without additional encouragement. (Thanks to the others for the explanations about Sonar & other transmissions.)