Europe from the back seat

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jb747

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Having been to parts of Europe many times during my flying life, I'm now starting to see it from the other side. No more 36 hour stays, but sadly I have to pay for the accommodations.

This trip has stops in Singapore, Zurich, Salzburg, Vienna, Graz, Ljubljana, Venice, Florence, Lucca, Milan, and then back to Singapore for a couple of days before heading home.

Flights are all with Singair. Return tickets from Melbourne to Singapore were purchased with actual money, whilst I was given much guidance from AFF members on how to use Amex point to redeem the sectors to/from Europe.

As we live a couple of hours drive from Melbourne, we started the trip with an overnight stay in the Ibis at Melbourne airport. A very basic hotel, but one that I used many times when commuting. Over to the terminal fairly early, to have breakfast in the Singair lounge. Security has improved the experience passing through the terminal quite a bit since I retired, so that was done very quickly. The flight to Singapore was on a 777, which had a newer cabin fit that the aircraft I flew on the Wellington earlier in the year. And I'd have to say that I hated it. I thought it was the most uncomfortable thing that I'd sat on in J class. Melburnian would have been impressed with their time keeping though. Off blocks a few minutes early, and into Singapore on time. Getting through immigration at Changi was very slow (mid afternoon), taking around an hour. My passport is registered, so I could have used the kiosks, but the boss would not have been happy if I'd abandoned her. The Singapore experience is generally pretty good, but this wasn't. Home for the next couple of nights was AirBnb apartment in the business district, not far from Marina Bay.

Our next flight was a very late night departure to Zurich. I had no particular reason for choosing Zurich, other than wanting to fly on one of their A380s. Some food for Melburnian here too, as this flight was initially delayed, and delayed, and delayed. And then cancelled, about an hour after it should have departed. Technical issues was the reason, and I was never able to find out anything more. Rescheduled for about 6 hours later. We were offered accommodation at one of the city hotels, but figured that by the time we took the overhead out that would only give us 3 hours in the hotel, so we returned to the lounge, for a very fitful night. The flight eventually got going the next morning. The aircraft was nice and new, but sadly had an almost identical J cabin fit out to that which I'd run into on the 777. Okay to sit in, but no real chance of any sleep, even though I thought I'd just fade out.

Arriving in Zurich, immigration was fast, and we took the train to town, to track down our AirBnB. We had no expectations of Zurich, but quite enjoyed our short stay. The AirBnB was very comfortable, and the city pleasant. My total lack of any language skills other than English and gibberish wasn't a hinderance.

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Next up we caught the OBB (Austrian) train to Salzburg. All of our train tickets (other than local ones) were booked months in advance. Curiously, on the OBB trains, business class is better than first. So, comfortable seats, in four seat cabins. You can get meals on board, but it's train food...not very good. As you'd expect from the Austrians, the trains ran exactly on time. In Salzburg we arrived at our AirBnB and were quite stunned at what we'd found. A really beautiful new apartment, within a very old building. Wonderful fit out... We were about 1 km from the old town, but very near the Mirabell Palace. This is a nice place. Plenty of hikes around town, and lots to see and do. Also took a bus trip Berchtesgaden, a beautiful little town that is mostly famous as the location of Hitler's "Eagle's Nest".

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Another OBB train took us to the next stop, Vienna. Our AirBnB this time wasn't as impressive. Perfectly okay, but now our expectations had been raised. Easy tram ride to the city centre. The Spanish riding school is a high point here. We found that the city was crowded with tourists, but contrary to our expectation, the best times were mid to late afternoon.

_D802717.jpg _D802827.jpg

A partially restored Roman town, about 30 minutes out of Vienna made for a very interesting day.

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Our last Austrian stop was in Graz. Only a short stop, that coincided with a local festival. Many men in lederhosen and women in dirndls. No shortage of beer either. The AirBnB here was back to astounding. Old building with a huge apartment, beautifully decorated.

The train from Graz to Ljubljana wasn't anywhere near as flash, but still comfortable enough. Great view during the journey. The AirBnB in Ljubljana was right on the river, pretty much in the centre of town. We really enjoyed our time here. Quite the food and drink culture. Local wines were excellent. Hikes to palaces, castles, and gardens abound.

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Our next move was down to Venice. We chose to simply book road transport for this (GoOpti). It was on time, quick, clean and dropped us right into the action in Venice. The AirBnB this time was an apartment right on the Grand Canal, within sight of the Rialto Bridge. The host advised us to take the vaporetto (water bus), and to keep him up to date on our progress via SMS. They met us at the boat stop and then led us to the apartment. We were far enough away from the main tourist routes that it was never crowded, but close enough to the sights that they were easily accessed. I'd thought it might be a difficult place to navigate around, but I found it quite easy. It's obviously a place that becomes very crowded, but early in the day the squares were empty, and by mid afternoon people seemed to have lost interest in the museums. This was another place that I greatly enjoyed, and I'd happily come back.

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Leaving Venice, this time to Florence, it was time to experience the Italian trains. We'd booked a couple of trips with Italo. Venice station was reasonably crowded, but Italo have a nice lounge, so a quiet oasis to await departure. Their train was a VFT. Comfortable, and plenty of room for luggage. We booked these tickets about six months ago, and coupled with the seniors discount, 1st class was almost cheap. Certainly much cheaper than OBB.

Everybody had told us how much they loved Florence. We ended up with a somewhat different opinion. On first arrival, walking from the station, it struck us as pretty dirty, and very busy. In the central areas, it was drowning in a sea of tourists...and it was still pretty dirty. The Uffizi and Pitti museums are well worth the effort. The Pitti, you just walk up to early in the day, and you'll be straight in. The Uffizi, you'll need to book on line. But then you'll have to actually go and pick up the ticket. It's very poorly sign posted, and confusing. Thankfully we ran into someone who had been there before. We also ran foul of one of the thieves that we had been warned of here. It was incredibly brazen, and caught me out. Easily replaced though. The AirBnB here was in an excellent spot, so we never had to go far to find a decent watering hole or eatery. My overall opinion was that it was worth the visit, but I don't see a reason to return.

Next stop Lucca. Travelled there using the local trains. The journey over was on an almost empty train, with tons of space for us to keep our luggage near. Lucca itself turned out to be an extremely interesting place. Plenty to see and do, and just not crowded at all. A great base for some of the other spots like Pisa. The AirBnB was another wonderful place. A virtually new, and large apartment, within an incredibly old palace. Whilst we'd initially planned on either going to the coast or Pisa, in the end Lucca kept us happily occupied.

Leaving Lucca we were back on to that same inter town train. It started off empty as before, but by the time we arrived in Florence, people were hanging out the doors. I don't know what was on...it was a Sunday. Football somewhere perhaps. A short wait in the Italo lounge, and we were back onto their VFT to Milan. It was a rapid trip, hitting a high of 305 kph. It arrived in Milan Centrale, which is huge and quite confusing. We eventually found our way to the attached subway station, for the journey to the accommodation. Extremely crowded. The BnB was on the Naviglio Grande, more or less the local version of Southbank. The street barely had walking room it was so crowded. After we found our way through, which was fun with bags, we found that the AirBnb, whilst in a building adjacent to this, was also facing away, so it was nice and quiet. On Monday the crowds were gone, and whilst there were plenty of cafes and bars to choose from, it was back to being pleasant. This was only ever planned as a short stop, prior to flying out, so our hiking here was limited. Not as crowded as Florence, and it seemed like there was just as much to see...but everything is shut on Mondays.

Singair had sent us an email telling us that the airport was expected to be unusually crowded, because of the temporary closure of Milan's other airport, and suggested we plan on being there a bit earlier than usual. As we didn't relish fighting the subway on the way to the airport, we elected to move to an airport hotel for the night prior to our departure. As it turned out, the subway mid afternoon on a Tuesday wasn't crowded at all. Malpensa, despite Singair's warning, and various comments around the net, proved to be a very easy experience.

The Singair flight was nicely on time, and this time we flew in an A350. Internally it looked just like the upper deck of a 380. Ride seemed much the same, and it was a notably quiet aircraft. J seating was every bit as bad as previously though. Food and wine were good, way better than catering out of either Melbourne or Singapore. On arrival in Singapore (at about 6:30am) , we spent a few hours a the airport Crown Plaza, putting some sleep back in the bank.

Just for old times sake, I'm currently staying in the crew hotel in Singapore. But up on the top floors in a much nicer room. One more Singair flight to go...a 380 back to Melbourne on Tuesday.

AirBnB has overall been an excellent experience, with accommodation that's ranged from good to amazing, but at much less cost than hotels.

My flights on Singair were in large part paid for by points. So, I have to thank the collective knowledge pool on AFF for showing me how to collect, and use, them. Singair themselves were quite decent in most ways...apart from those damn seats.
 
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Great photos and an interesting itinerary.

I would love to know more about your airbnb choices.

How do you select one ..Superhost, nearness to public transport ?
 
Great photos and an interesting itinerary.

I would love to know more about your airbnb choices.

How do you select one ..Superhost, nearness to public transport ?
All super hosts. And they were all very helpful, with great communication.

We were not interested in any form of share accommodation, so it had to be the full apartment or house.

We very carefully studied the locations. We wanted to be within walking distance of the attractions, but most importantly with easy access to the train stations that we would be using. I was able to locate all of them on google street view, and have a look at the area.

Prices varied a lot, and you’ll have to make your own call there.

If you’re going for any length of time, make sure that you have a washing machine available. We had in most of them.

We had a test run of the concept in Melbourne, where we got a really nice apartment in Fitzroy, for a fraction of the price of a hotel.

Overall, the cost was about half of what using double rooms in reasonable hotels would have cost. Who’d want to be in a hotel when you can have your own apartment.

The good ones are booked out early. We saw some nice stuff coming up at short notice, obviously from cancellations. Basically though, you need to book as far out as you can. I booked our flights last October, and the accommodation immediately thereafter. Even the trains were done a few months out.
 
Fortunately - or unfortunately - SQ’s business class is now pretty much standard across the fleet (haven’t tried the 787-10 yet, but will do so tomorrow). The only option to improve seating is to go for one of the bulkheads which have unrestricted width at your feet for sleeping.
 
But not all bulkheads MEL - some A and K seats still have restricted width
We'll see how it goes in a couple of days. Check-in has just opened. The flight has changed from a 380 to a 777. They had allocated us two seat together at row 15, which is the bassinet/bulkhead row. We've decided to have windows this time, so have changed to 15 & 17K. Daytime flight anyway, so it's probably more of an issue that I've seen most of the movies.
 
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Having been to parts of Europe many times during my flying life, I'm now starting to see it from the other side. No more 36 hour stays, but sadly I have to pay for the accommodations.

This trip has stops in Singapore, Zurich, Salzburg, Vienna, Graz, Ljubljana, Venice, Florence, Lucca, Milan, and then back to Singapore for a couple of days before heading home.

Flights are all with Singair. Return tickets from Melbourne to Singapore were purchased with actual money, whilst I was given much guidance from AFF members on how to use Amex point to redeem the sectors to/from Europe.

As we live a couple of hours drive from Melbourne, we started the trip with an overnight stay in the Ibis at Melbourne airport. A very basic hotel, but one that I used many times when commuting. Over to the terminal fairly early, to have breakfast in the Singair lounge. Security has improved the experience passing through the terminal quite a bit since I retired, so that was done very quickly. The flight to Singapore was on a 777, which had a newer cabin fit that the aircraft I flew on the Wellington earlier in the year. And I'd have to say that I hated it. I thought it was the most uncomfortable thing that I'd sat on in J class. Melburnian would have been impressed with their time keeping though. Off blocks a few minutes early, and into Singapore on time. Getting through immigration at Changi was very slow (mid afternoon), taking around an hour. My passport is registered, so I could have used the kiosks, but the boss would not have been happy if I'd abandoned her. The Singapore experience is generally pretty good, but this wasn't. Home for the next couple of nights was AirBnb apartment in the business district, not far from Marina Bay.

Our next flight was a very late night departure to Zurich. I had no particular reason for choosing Zurich, other than wanting to fly on one of their A380s. Some food for Melburnian here too, as this flight was initially delayed, and delayed, and delayed. And then cancelled, about an hour after it should have departed. Technical issues was the reason, and I was never able to find out anything more. Rescheduled for about 6 hours later. We were offered accommodation at one of the city hotels, but figured that by the time we took the overhead out that would only give us 3 hours in the hotel, so we returned to the lounge, for a very fitful night. The flight eventually got going the next morning. The aircraft was nice and new, but sadly had an almost identical J cabin fit out to that which I'd run into on the 777. Okay to sit in, but no real chance of any sleep, even though I thought I'd just fade out.

Arriving in Zurich, immigration was fast, and we took the train to town, to track down our AirBnB. We had no expectations of Zurich, but quite enjoyed our short stay. The AirBnB was very comfortable, and the city pleasant. My total lack of any language skills other than English and gibberish wasn't a hinderance.

View attachment 192077

Next up we caught the OBB (Austrian) train to Salzburg. All of our train tickets (other than local ones) were booked months in advance. Curiously, on the OBB trains, business class is better than first. So, comfortable seats, in four seat cabins. You can get meals on board, but it's train food...not very good. As you'd expect from the Austrians, the trains ran exactly on time. In Salzburg we arrived at our AirBnB and were quite stunned at what we'd found. A really beautiful new apartment, within a very old building. Wonderful fit out... We were about 1 km from the old town, but very near the Mirabell Palace. This is a nice place. Plenty of hikes around town, and lots to see and do. Also took a bus trip Berchtesgaden, a beautiful little town that is mostly famous as the location of Hitler's "Eagle's Nest".

View attachment 192078

Another OBB train took us to the next stop, Vienna. Our AirBnB this time wasn't as impressive. Perfectly okay, but now our expectations had been raised. Easy tram ride to the city centre. The Spanish riding school is a high point here. We found that the city was crowded with tourists, but contrary to our expectation, the best times were mid to late afternoon.

View attachment 192080 View attachment 192081

A partially restored Roman town, about 30 minutes out of Vienna made for a very interesting day.

View attachment 192082 View attachment 192084
Our last Austrian stop was in Graz. Only a short stop, that coincided with a local festival. Many men in lederhosen and women in dirndls. No shortage of beer either. The AirBnB here was back to astounding. Old building with a huge apartment, beautifully decorated.

The train from Graz to Ljubljana wasn't anywhere near as flash, but still comfortable enough. Great view during the journey. The AirBnB in Ljubljana was right on the river, pretty much in the centre of town. We really enjoyed our time here. Quite the food and drink culture. Local wines were excellent. Hikes to palaces, castles, and gardens abound.

View attachment 192085 View attachment 192086 View attachment 192087
Our next move was down to Venice. We chose to simply book road transport for this (GoOpti). It was on time, quick, clean and dropped us right into the action in Venice. The AirBnB this time was an apartment right on the Grand Canal, within sight of the Rialto Bridge. The host advised us to take the vaporetto (water bus), and to keep him up to date on our progress via SMS. They met us at the boat stop and then led us to the apartment. We were far enough away from the main tourist routes that it was never crowded, but close enough to the sights that they were easily accessed. I'd thought it might be a difficult place to navigate around, but I found it quite easy. It's obviously a place that becomes very crowded, but early in the day the squares were empty, and by mid afternoon people seemed to have lost interest in the museums. This was another place that I greatly enjoyed, and I'd happily come back.

View attachment 192088
Leaving Venice, this time to Florence, it was time to experience the Italian trains. We'd booked a couple of trips with Italo. Venice station was reasonably crowded, but Italo have a nice lounge, so a quiet oasis to await departure. Their train was a VFT. Comfortable, and plenty of room for luggage. We booked these tickets about six months ago, and coupled with the seniors discount, 1st class was almost cheap. Certainly much cheaper than OBB.

Everybody had told us how much they loved Florence. We ended up with a somewhat different opinion. On first arrival, walking from the station, it struck us as pretty dirty, and very busy. In the central areas, it was drowning in a sea of tourists...and it was still pretty dirty. The Uffizi and Pitti museums are well worth the effort. The Pitti, you just walk up to early in the day, and you'll be straight in. The Uffizi, you'll need to book on line. But then you'll have to actually go and pick up the ticket. It's very poorly sign posted, and confusing. Thankfully we ran into someone who had been there before. We also ran foul of one of the thieves that we had been warned of here. It was incredibly brazen, and caught me out. Easily replaced though. The AirBnB here was in an excellent spot, so we never had to go far to find a decent watering hole or eatery. My overall opinion was that it was worth the visit, but I don't see a reason to return.

Next stop Lucca. Travelled there using the local trains. The journey over was on an almost empty train, with tons of space for us to keep our luggage near. Lucca itself turned out to be an extremely interesting place. Plenty to see and do, and just not crowded at all. A great base for some of the other spots like Pisa. The AirBnB was another wonderful place. A virtually new, and large apartment, within an incredibly old palace. Whilst we'd initially planned on either going to the coast or Pisa, in the end Lucca kept us happily occupied.

Leaving Lucca we were back on to that same inter town train. It started off empty as before, but by the time we arrived in Florence, people were hanging out the doors. I don't know what was on...it was a Sunday. Football somewhere perhaps. A short wait in the Italo lounge, and we were back onto their VFT to Milan. It was a rapid trip, hitting a high of 305 kph. It arrived in Milan Centrale, which is huge and quite confusing. We eventually found our way to the attached subway station, for the journey to the accommodation. Extremely crowded. The BnB was on the Naviglio Grande, more or less the local version of Southbank. The street barely had walking room it was so crowded. After we found our way through, which was fun with bags, we found that the AirBnb, whilst in a building adjacent to this, was also facing away, so it was nice and quiet. On Monday the crowds were gone, and whilst there were plenty of cafes and bars to choose from, it was back to being pleasant. This was only ever planned as a short stop, prior to flying out, so our hiking here was limited. Not as crowded as Florence, and it seemed like there was just as much to see...but everything is shut on Mondays.

Singair had sent us an email telling us that the airport was expected to be unusually crowded, because of the temporary closure of Milan's other airport, and suggested we plan on being there a bit earlier than usual. As we didn't relish fighting the subway on the way to the airport, we elected to move to an airport hotel for the night prior to our departure. As it turned out, the subway mid afternoon on a Tuesday wasn't crowded at all. Malpensa, despite Singair's warning, and various comments around the net, proved to be a very easy experience.

The Singair flight was nicely on time, and this time we flew in an A350. Internally it looked just like the upper deck of a 380. Ride seemed much the same, and it was a notably quiet aircraft. J seating was every bit as bad as previously though. Food and wine were good, way better than catering out of either Melbourne or Singapore. On arrival in Singapore (at about 6:30am) , we spent a few hours a the airport Crown Plaza, putting some sleep back in the bank.

Just for old times sake, I'm currently staying in the crew hotel in Singapore. But up on the top floors in a much nicer room. One more Singair flight to go...a 380 back to Melbourne on Tuesday.

AirBnB has overall been an excellent experience, with accommodation that's ranged from good to amazing, but at much less cost than hotels.

My flights on Singair were in large part paid for by points. So, I have to thank the collective knowledge pool on AFF for showing me how to collect, and use, them. Singair themselves were quite decent in most ways...apart from those damn seats.
what a great trip write up..thank you. Love Airbnb and it is the only way to stay now as most times you get to immerse yourself in the local way of life and not a sterile hotel! Interesting your review of the SQ J seats. I have only been in F and J on EK, QR in J and of course QF in PY and J. Flew F (shower was nice before getting into MEL)with EK ZRHDXBMEL and J DUBDXBPER and have to say the service on both flights and seats were very good Would not bother to waste extra points for F anymore as a bed is a bed and rather keep my points! QR J I would rate above EK for cabin presentation and overall onboard service and looking forward to next trip have just booked on QR A350-1000 ex SIN next year in J (trying the backward seating for double bed!) I still love QF PY/J product. again thanks for the in depth write up...enjoy your retirement!
 
we have stayed in Florence just off the Ponte Vecchio and have to say we loved it there. We are going to Italy again next Sept and was thinking of Lucca ..do you feel it is definitely worth a few days? Last time we took it off our itinerary and put in the Cinque Terre which was breathtaking.
 
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we have stayed in Florence just off the Ponte Vecchio and have to say we loved it there. We are going to Italy again next Sept and was thinking of Lucca ..do you feel it is definitely worth a few days? Last time we took it off our itinerary and put in the Cinque Terre which was breathtaking.

We were staying within about 100 metres of Ponte Vecchio. Apart from a couple of specific museums (and my wife loved the leather school), we really didn’t warm to Florence. Perhaps too many tourists (and I guess we weren’t helping there), but it also struck me as being pretty dirty.

The original plan was to visit Pisa and Cinque Terre from Lucca, as they aren’t far away. In the end we happily amused ourselves within Lucca. A quiet and chill place to be. There’s tourists, but it’s not overrun. Certainly enough for a three or four days. I don’t think I’ll bother with Pisa, but I might tackle Cinque from Genoa next time.

This was the Lucca apartment: rooftop attic with 360° view in old town with lift - Apartments for Rent in Lucca, Toscana, Italy
 
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We were staying within about 100 metres of Ponte Vecchio. Apart from a couple of specific museums (and my wife loved the leather school), we really didn’t warm to Florence. Perhaps too many tourists (and I guess we weren’t helping there), but it also struck me as being pretty dirty.

The original plan was to visit Pisa and Cinque Terre from Lucca, as they aren’t far away. In the end we happily amused ourselves within Lucca. A quiet and chill place to be. There’s tourists, but it’s not overrun. Certainly enough for a three or four days. I don’t think I’ll bother with Pisa, but I might tackle Cinque from Genoa next time.

This was the Lucca apartment: rooftop attic with 360° view in old town with lift - Apartments for Rent in Lucca, Toscana, Italy
That apartment looks terrific JB ! Top views but with an elevator and airconditioning for the warmer months. All important considerations.

I found Lucca a great spot to chill out for a couple of days. The terrain was easily walked being mostly flat and the walls that circle the city are great for a bike ride.

Pisa on the otherhand has little to offer IMO once you have seen the Leaning Tower and Duomo area.

PS ...great photos 🥇🏆
 
But not all bulkheads MEL - some A and K seats still have restricted width

Maybe for the SQ trips and tales thread - but if you come across them perhaps make a note of them? Would be a handy data point(s). The 77W and A380 (at least the old fit out of the latter) appear to all be full width A/K seats at the bulkheads. The 787-10 is different (different type of seat).
 
We were staying within about 100 metres of Ponte Vecchio. Apart from a couple of specific museums (and my wife loved the leather school), we really didn’t warm to Florence. Perhaps too many tourists (and I guess we weren’t helping there), but it also struck me as being pretty dirty.

The original plan was to visit Pisa and Cinque Terre from Lucca, as they aren’t far away. In the end we happily amused ourselves within Lucca. A quiet and chill place to be. There’s tourists, but it’s not overrun. Certainly enough for a three or four days. I don’t think I’ll bother with Pisa, but I might tackle Cinque from Genoa next time.

This was the Lucca apartment: rooftop attic with 360° view in old town with lift - Apartments for Rent in Lucca, Toscana, Italy
now that is a great apt....will keep that one in mind although it is certainly more expensive than what we normally go for but definitely worth notating (checked it for next Sept)
 
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