Why do we hold unreal expectations of Qantas??

[downgraded]

The old adage "under promise and over deliver" springs to mind...

Or "low expectations and you might just get a surprise".

 

[Vic]

Whatever your experience as a platinum, those of us without status get it a whole lot worse Your short flights might be ‘mundane’, ours are still a struggle.

Pretty much the thinking behind my last sentence.

Mundane is a struggle...

 

[RichardMEL]

Personally I do not feel I have unrealistic expectations of ANY airline, but specifically QF.

I base my expectations on either what is published (for example, status benefits due) or my own experiences.

I am also a pretty endependent sort of soul - I am not one that worries about First Hosts (for example) and escorts, and I am not one who cares about being given a special greeting or whatever. I expect to get what I paid for, and things like food quality are kind of secondary. And, like many of us I have had numerous experiences over years... decades... to know how this thing works and what's likely to happen on a particular flight on a particular airline.

I also tend to try to be as eelf sufficient as possible... so I will use kiosks to check in, I will research the lounges at an unfamiliar airport and decide what to aim for, and I will as best as possible understand what I should be entitled to.

... and with vast experience(as above) and knowing hos "Consistently Inconsistent" QF can be (to get back on topic) then I probably expect less than I state abov - less ways to be disappointed.

And actually this way I feel there's opportunity for unexpected surprises.. a nice service element, or a lounge having an unexpectedly yummy dish, or whatever.

And finally with a lot of experience I feel that I can absolutely acknowledge the (many) failings/issues/problems. Often I accept them and work around them as much as possible, but also very aware of how much better things cold be done - and I've not been shy about those opinions on this and other forums. I've also nted good things when I see them - and that doesn't make me an apologist... just one who isn't only interested in always pointing out the bad or poor things but also being able to appreciate something good.

but that's just me.

 

[Max Samuels]

Oh wow I saw this and thought it was a click-bait trap!

But seriously..... my 2 cents.

I worked for the airline briefly in the 90s, and again in the 2000s
I have family who work for airline.
I have family who where were until recently CL (and boy do they drop you FAST when you're done!)
I have been WP for probs 15 years plus, and FF flyer way before that

So that's just the background as some context for my comments. I know the "company" from many different angles.

But basically, Qantas is a product of the Australian tax payer, and although privatized, still benefits greatly from the Aussie tax payer in ways of preferential treatment etc from the Government. It is the "de facto" national carrier, and we have it shoved down our throats 24/7 in some for or another. So people (rightly so, in my opinion) expect more from them. Just like we "expect" more from our footy players or anything else that is seen to represent "us". Is that the correct attitude to have on our part? No. But it is what it is.

I like the arrangement that JAL has with the Japanese Government.... JAL is a private company. JAL has shareholders. But it is also the "national" carrier and has some kind of alignment with foreign image etc. So, what do they do? In return for being the "national" carrier, they are also the VIP transport for the Government. Official Government trips are on chartered JAL aircraft. The cosiness between the 2 is public, official and no one questions or cares. Qantas seems to benefit from perferential gov't treatment but there is nothing "official".

I can only speak for myself, but I hate that, And I think lots of other people do too.

 

[Isochronous]

A better question is why do people defend it so much?

As a whole, this is a company that has little regard for its customers. Backend support is terrible, customer care is non-existent... the list goes on.

I was once a Qantas sheep but I must say that now I’ve moved on, I do see that many airlines actually run as decent businesses.

You’re spot on. They are not a public service or government department, so we should expect them to provide a competitive service. On an international scale at least, they simply do not.

I think a lot of it is to do with people being so blinkered that they don't actually go out and try other airlines and realise that QF is not really a market leader in either hard product, service, food etc. Most QF staff, for example, are totally unaware of what product other airlines offer so they do generally believe the hype that they are the best airline in the world.

 

[p--and--t]

Qantas comes to the government, cap in hand, demanding taxpayer support and guarantees when things are going tough.

I think I have seen this statement several times on AFF. I cannot recall if it was you who has made it several times.

I see almost daily companies of all persuasions complain to the press, put their hand out and cry poor and expect the government to help them out with reduced taxes, handouts, controls on competitors, un-levelling the playing field, special asset improvement grants etc etc etc. It is almost an expected culture of corporates both here and abroad.

I would be interested to have any information (with associated evidence) presented where QF has actually received any commonwealth government handouts or special preferences or concessions in, lets say, the last decade that would unfairly preference them against any other carrier operating in Aus.

I am aware both QF and VA have received significant encouragement and funds from WA and QLD to move or start up special initiatives in those states where it is quid pro quo.

 

[sjk]

I like the arrangement that JAL has with the Japanese Government.... JAL is a private company. JAL has shareholders. But it is also the "national" carrier and has some kind of alignment with foreign image etc. So, what do they do? In return for being the "national" carrier, they are also the VIP transport for the Government. Official Government trips are on chartered JAL aircraft. The cosiness between the 2 is public, official and no one questions or cares.

Your information is out of date. Things have changed since JAL went bankrupt and a considerable effort is made to keep things more balanced. The official government aircraft are now mantained by ANA.

ANA snatches 'honor' from JAL as designated firm for official aircraft

Japan, China, India and Southeast Asia news and expert analysis published by Nikkei, an award-winning independent provider of quality journalism.

asia.nikkei.com

 

[p--and--t]

You’re spot on. They are not a public service or government department, so we should expect them to provide a competitive service. On an international scale at least, they simply do not.

I would have thought a competitive service in respect of private companies is an operation that succeeds and thrives where there is direct competition on a relatively level playing field.

Given there are other players in Aus (both international and national) and the QFs largest national competitor was bankrolled by some very large worldwide players with (was) deep pockets and QF is still there, is still growing, the only one making a profit, and has the highest load factors on some very hotly contested routes - by at least my definition they are more than competitive.

 

[OATEK]

I think of QANTAS as a Legacy carrier. Their legacy comes as several have said from being a national airline, still partly controlled by Government, yet trying to pretend that is is just another commercial venture. That plays out in the cosy arrangements for legacy staff, who as others have said "disappear" behind the curtains very quickly after take-off. It plays on the national carrier theme, with its heart jerking adds, and in seeking to place its logo on every national sporting team's shirts.

However, while QANTAS has a good safety record despite some major scares (QF30, QF32, QF72), it has gone steadily downhill on customer service, while keeping prices high. The best customer service I have experienced in the last couple of years is on FINNAIR, and it is in stark contrast to QF especially when you are on back to back flights (eg AY99 transitting to QF128).

I no longer see QF as a major player in the international skies. Since 2015 I have flown with CX, AY, BA, OS, A3, and rarely with QF. My expectations of QF are driving this, with the next trip being a single reward flight on QF and mutliple flights on BA and LH. I see no realistic prospect of that changing.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

If by unreal expectations you mean consistency and premium customer service in line with the premium prices charged then yes my expectations are very unreal.

They are usually the highest priced fare, generally the only available carrier for a certain route at a certain time I require and they share their logo with half of our national emblem - that is enough reason for me to have unreal expectations

 

[p--and--t]

Qantas always gets many comments and feelings. We have within the forum everyone from basic pax to Qantas pilots.

Having watched these perspectives over many years, I get a sense that Qantas is somehow special. Despite it being a true independent company, there seem to me to be many opinions that do not see it as such. Everything from the CEO's wage to day-to-day changes. What is it that we believe of this airline? Is it an independent company? (I think the answer is yes) But if it it is so, why do we think that it should be pax-focused rather than shareholder focused?

I understand the misgivings of employees that want the best deal. I understand the desire by pax for things that are best for them. But what I see in the whole matrix is that Qantas is somehow viewed as the beast it tries to be with its sales pitch - the "Aussie" airline. Hence the expectations. Even though it is not.

I think I realized many years ago that despite my love of the concept of a true "Aussie" airline, this is just another business. It is not a thing created for the benefit of its employees. Or the passengers. It is strictly an entity that exists to try to make money for its shareholders. All businesses in Australia are like that, but with Qantas, they get held to a different expectation.

Why are we so (as a group) so socialist when it comes to Qantas? Do we desire that entity be Aussie and of the people?

I find myself defending much of what Qantas does. But I do it from the perspective of respecting that it is a private company. I feel that many here do not see that, and are held back by the nostalgia that Qantas is a public entity. It is not, it has not been for many years.

But despite what I say in support of Qantas, I also hold the desire in my heart that it could be public company. That it could make decisions based on support for its staff and customers.

And i see as truth that this is not the real case, so everyone, again from pax to pilots, will just get constantly disappointed.

Qantas is a company. They are not a public service. If there was scope for something better, it would have appeared.

Juddles, when I read the toing and froing etc across many sites and outlets, I'm beginning to think many reactions I read come from "familiarity breeds contempt".

If you live in Australia you cannot help but have QF in your face, regardless of whether you are a Statused FF or never flown.

When I am overseas, other travellers (particularly from US & UK as well as some others) tell me how lucky we are to have QF, how is it possible they give you a drink and food on a one hour flight and what no charge for checked luggage!!!. They bit.. and complain about their domestic and international carriers ad finitum.

When I am in Melbourne the locals bit.. and complain saying we have the worst public transport in the world. When I meet some friends from Sydney they tell me how lucky we are with free transport in the CBD and the prices generally are lower to what they are used to and how shocking Sydney public transport is. Similar story when I visit Adelaide.

I think the answer is people like to complain about anything and everything and QF is an easy target. Classic tall poppy syndrome.

 

[OZDUCK]

I don't hold unreal expectations of QF but last year on our first International J flight with QF in 14 years I expected :-

- That if a snack is listed on the menu to be served it is actually served - it wasn't

- That a J seat would be in reasonable condition - it wasn't. On the first leg, half of the seat functions did not operate and the retractable seat belt didn't retract.

- That the flight crew would give some basic information to the passengers - they didn't direct one word to us for the entire Sin - Per leg and didn't even warn that descent was about to start.

- That in line with normal practice the cabin light's would be dimmed on landing - they were not.

- That, on the same leg, as with every other airline that I have flown in J class, or even ScootBiz, the cabin crew would attempt to give J class pax the chance to disembark before Y class pax - they did not.

Now the planes were on time, the cabin crew were friendly, the food was ok and we got there and back. And I know that this is a very small metric to base an opinion on, but QF did not meet my reasonable expectations let alone any unreasonable ones.
-

 

[esseeeayeenn]

- That in line with normal practice the cabin light's would be dimmed on landing - they were not.

I have noticed lately that despite announcements, the lights are never actually dimmed at take off or landing on QF flights anymore.

 

[BAM1748]

I understand they don't have the Singapore girls, QF has it's issues and sometimes fail.

But as I've said before, I live in Aus and they are the home team so I go with them.

 

[OZDUCK]

I have noticed lately that despite announcements, the lights are never actually dimmed at take off or landing anymore.

All I can say is that on all of our night-time flights with QR, CX, SQ and Scoot they were dimmed for both takeoff and landing.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

All I can say is that on all of our night-time flights with QR, CX, SQ and Scoot they were dimmed for both takeoff and landing.

Yes as I have clarified i was only referring to QF flights.

 

[dajop]

Very simple. QF creates the expectations through their wondrous marketing machine. Every time they do something negative they dress it up as a positive. People either swallow their marketing spin, and thus expect more (general public) or become cynical (AFF community). The cynical amongst us probably expect less than the general public.

 

[jakeseven7]

I think I have seen this statement several times on AFF. I cannot recall if it was you who has made it several times.

I see almost daily companies of all persuasions complain to the press, put their hand out and cry poor and expect the government to help them out with reduced taxes, handouts, controls on competitors, un-levelling the playing field, special asset improvement grants etc etc etc. It is almost an expected culture of corporates both here and abroad.

I would be interested to have any information (with associated evidence) presented where QF has actually received any commonwealth government handouts or special preferences or concessions in, lets say, the last decade that would unfairly preference them against any other carrier operating in Aus.

I am aware both QF and VA have received significant encouragement and funds from WA and QLD to move or start up special initiatives in those states where it is quid pro quo.

Thank you for answering this - it baffles me when people chuck this up as if QF is the only company that does this, but VA is a huge beneficiary of government corporate welfare, as are loads of other AU companies.

 

[pjohn]

I fly a lot and there's no doubt many who fly more than me. I've had my fair share of great experiences with Qantas and also one's that have left me questioning what I did to have the CSM or other attendants on board think I was a leper. What I do believe through all of it is, that despite all the 'talk' and marketing that goes on by AJ and his bunch of merry executives on how they're bettering the airline towards the customer experience, you primarily get what get 'on the day'.
The complete lack of consistency from Qantas staff, particularly on board, is what makes me question them, and to be honest, getting back to back flights where the experience was the same is proving to be a harder and harder find.

 

[juddles]

.... all the 'talk' and marketing that goes on by AJ and his bunch of merry executives....

pjohn, I think a key problem is exactly them - that "merry group of executives". I suspect AJ is well shielded from any pax satisfaction issues.
Without actually knowing them, I suspect that there is a very competent team just below AJ - competent in painting pretty pictures that is.