Qantas New Check In Seating Allocation

[serfty]

I don't see a no status LOL getting 4C as an issue.

Maybe a high status PAX on a flex fare jumped to an earlier flight on half an hours notice; leaving 4C available as one of the few remaining seats for LOL to get when checking in at T-31 minutes.

Note the earlier posts on how this is supposed to work ...

 

[htchapman]

Oops! That should have been 4C.

Not a big deal but when you see people seated in front of you holding a boarding with no status then it becomes a little confusing. And I was allocated row 45F on a 767 last month....

I've had some rediculous seating allocations recently AKL-SYD and SYD-AKL obviously on a 767.

Common for me to get >40 now. Its only a recent development...maybe last couple of months. Before that I was 24/25 EVERY time without fail.

I go to checkmytrip.com and see what seating is available and there are always some up closer so I just make a quick phone call.

My pref is: Forward Aisle.

 

[JohnK]

No different for tomorrow's flight. Allocated 7D with almost every aisle seat down to row 29 available. Did the smart thing and grabbed 4A, yes window seat but row 4, as almost every forward window seat is available.

 

[JohnK]

I am trying hard to analyse the new check-in system and without any specifications I think I may have an explanation.

On todays flight there are only 7 aisle seats allocated at the front of economy. There is 4CD, 5CD, 6CD and 7D, the one I was originally allocated. The rest of the aisle seats, apart from 18D and 29D which I think are OLCI or rear aisle preference, are all vacant.

So it would appear that on my flight there are only 7 passengers with any status and have a forward aisle preference and they have been allocated the first 7 aisle seats in economy. As a Platinum I have the last of these aisle seat allocations which makes me think that there could not be another 6 Platinums in front of me and then no-one else with any status behind me, either Gold, Silver, QC or Bronze. So what is happening? I think seat allocations are done on cost of airfare first and then any status.

Not a big deal but it would explain some of the strange seat allocations recently and I do travel on the cheapest red e-deals. Any thoughts on my analysis?

 

[Tooner]

It's a new system and is bound to have glitches - I noticed the techos were all over the J Lounge desk in MEL on Friday afternoon - but for me the hardest thing is remembering to OLCI at T-23:59 having learned not to with the previous system. I'm constantly OLCIing 2-3 hours later and finding Seq# 30+ and a lot of good seats gone.

I do find, however, it is still worth checking back from time to time as people jump flights and seats open up in better locations.

Also noticed a new message when using OLCI: "Flight within 24 hours so cannot be changed" (or words to that effect). A bit odd considering the kiosks ask if you want to change!

 

[serfty]

It's now somehwat revenue based ...

here's a reminder of another post:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...antas-new-check-seating-allocation-14147.html
The author lists their occupation as an "Analyst for Airline Industry":

Alright before this speculation gets out of hand (and believe me, this article is way off base with its story!!!), let me explain this concept.

With Qantas' switch of reservation system, there are alot of behind the scenes changes that have taken place. One of these new concepts is called 'Theoretical Seats,' and believe me when I say that it is an excellent idea in theory, but it will take some time to iron out the issues Qantas is currently going through. Basically, Qantas has setup a list order (call it a value) of each pax for each and every flight (as well as values for individual seats on an aircraft). The ranking order takes into account FF status, PNR associations, SSRs, booking class, etc.

So, behind the scene before a pax even shows up to check-in, the system has allocated 'theoretical seats' for EVERY pax on that flight, depending the ranking order. What this means is that a pax with a high ranking order will have access to almost every seat available on the flight. A pax with a low ranking order will ONLY SEE SEATS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN BLOCKED BY THE 'THEORETICAL SEATS' FOR HIGHER RANKING PAX. Generally, if a flight is booked full (oversold), a low-ranking pax will see maybe 1 or 2 seats, or none at all available to them.

What this concept tries to do, is give pax with FF status, higher fare tickets, etc. better seats on an aircraft when pre-assignment is out of the question (QF doesn't pre-assign domestic seats, same for intra-Europe flights and Eurpoean carriers). Now, the issues that QF has had with this function relate to the way in which it had set up the ranking of pax. Families were checking in for flights and being spread out throughout an aircraft, and FF bookings (for status pax) were showing up at the bottom of the ranking order. QF has since fixed a lot of these issues internally, and regarding the article in question, THIS HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BUMPING PAX. ZERO, ZILCH, NADA. I'm not sure where that idea came from.

Now, the most difficult as you can imagine, is a check-in agent trying to explain this to pax as they are checking in bright and early for a flight, and not being allowed to access an open seat. It's a very complex situation, and not an easy one to explain.

So, hopefully that sheds some light onto the issue, but I would definitely take the article with a grain of salt, because there is very little valuable substance to it.

 

[garyjohn951]

It's now somehwat revenue based ...

here's a reminder of another post:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...antas-new-check-seating-allocation-14147.html
The author lists their occupation as an "Analyst for Airline Industry":

STILL does not explain wht a booking for two people, totally on the one booking, linked together end up with say 4C and 5A.......................

 

[straitman]

It's now somehwat revenue based ...

here's a reminder of another post:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...antas-new-check-seating-allocation-14147.html
The author lists their occupation as an "Analyst for Airline Industry":

This article is quite similar to an explanation I had from a friendly lady in QF the week before last. She emphasized that the new system looks at every passenger and their perceived value to Qantas. In addition to what the article mentioned she did include dollar spend and frequency of travel as important subgroups within each of the status levels.

ie all WP's are ranked higher than SG's etc but those WP's who fly and spend more are ranked higher than those who fly and spend less and so on etc.

She did offer the information freely but was very cautious to ensure that I understood the distinctions being drawn.

 

[WTL]

Used OLCI for the first time on Saturday. Allocated seats online, no problems. Got to the airport and tried to print boarding passes and it spat out a generic error message and gave me a ticket for the Service Desk queue. Staff member said nothing seemed to be wrong with it, and printed out my boarding pass and I was off. Same thing happened on the return trip. Staff member this time said any kind of itinerary change in the history of a booking will trip up the OCLI system. I don't know if he knew what he was talking about but it made sense in my case as I had moved the outbound leg to a later flight. The fact that they have dedicated queues for this purpose might say something too.

Also, during the seat allocation I found it interesting that I assigned a seat for the Mrs and then went immediately back into the seat allocation page and better seats were available to her (even though she was SEQ 1) and I was able to move her to one of those. Ohh well, who knows.

On a good note, on the outbound flight (where I was ticketed J and she Y) an On Departure Upgrade was a cinch, and during the return flight (same ticketing) an Adelaide QP desk lady worked until the last possible moment (while passengers were well and truly boarding) to get the Mrs the only remaining J seat which was apparently sold but a no-show. The computer hadn't changed the status of the seat to make it available for an ODU so she called the service centre to have it done. She was also able to allocate her the seat next to me which I guess means the single traveler who was previously in that seat had their boarding pass swapped at the gate for a different J seat(?). Service above and beyond.

 

[JohnK]

It's now somehwat revenue based ...

Nice article but still does not go even part of the way to explaining some of the situations i have encountered over the past couple of months. I think the system has not being configured correctly and is producing erroneoous seat allocations. Either that or the status of the passenger is not high on the priority list of automatic seat allocation for domestic flights.

I am still puzzled that for yesterdays flight there were 9 aisle seats pre-allocated when I did OLCI the night before. I had sequence #9. If QF silver, QC, Gold, Platinum and CL get seats pre-allocated then at best there was 9 status passengers with some sort of aisle preference. So me as Platinum got pre-allocated 7D which was the 7th ranked forward aisle preference for that flight.

OK, so row 7 is not so bad and I am on a cheap ticket but I am also Platinum and should have a higher ranking than a Silver who paid $20 more for their seat. But according to the new check in system they will get preference over a Platinum. This could end up being a mistake for Qantas along with their implementation of select your seat sometime next year....

 

[simongr]

I am still puzzled that for yesterdays flight there were 9 aisle seats pre-allocated when I did OLCI the night before. I had sequence #9. If QF silver, QC, Gold, Platinum and CL get seats pre-allocated then at best there was 9 status passengers with some sort of aisle preference. So me as Platinum got pre-allocated 7D which was the 7th ranked forward aisle preference for that flight.

OK, so row 7 is not so bad and I am on a cheap ticket but I am also Platinum and should have a higher ranking than a Silver who paid $20 more for their seat. But according to the new check in system they will get preference over a Platinum. This could end up being a mistake for Qantas along with their implementation of select your seat sometime next year....

How were you sure that PS were ahead of you?

The article does say that WP will get a better allocations than PS irrespective of fare paid.

 

[serfty]

Note that with this new system, it may be possible for a PS on a "B" fare to have a higher "Value" than a WP on the same flight on an "O" fare.

As a QB WP[PG] I have generally scored great seats when OLCI'ing as early as possible - in every case on an O fare.

 

[medhead]

So it would appear that on my flight there are only 7 passengers with any status and have a forward aisle preference and they have been allocated the first 7 aisle seats in economy. As a Platinum I have the last of these aisle seat allocations which makes me think that there could not be another 6 Platinums in front of me and then no-one else with any status behind me, either Gold, Silver, QC or Bronze. So what is happening? I think seat allocations are done on cost of airfare first and then any status.

Not a big deal but it would explain some of the strange seat allocations recently and I do travel on the cheapest red e-deals. Any thoughts on my analysis?

My thought is that your analysis is baised by your status. I've recently done adl- bne with seq number 1 and 8. On 737-800 and 400. Basically all window and aisle seats have been gone from 4 to about row 10. Plus many other seats >10 have been unavailable. But many forward center seats are available. So what you're seeing as open behind you is showing up as occupied in front of me. Clearly this refects your status and you could choose to bump me from my pre-allocated 18D.

On the 737-800 adl-bne the other day (seq 1) I was pre-allocated exit row 14D I think. Stupidly I missed the exit row thing and moved. Ended up in 7 or 8D after rechecking a number of times. The one exception was that I could have got 4A on this flight.

BNE to ADL, seq 8, I was preallocated 18D and managed to get to 13C. Again MANY more seats then 8 were taken. my low status means I have fewer options.

edit:

I am still puzzled that for yesterdays flight there were 9 aisle seats pre-allocated when I did OLCI the night before. I had sequence #9. If QF silver, QC, Gold, Platinum and CL get seats pre-allocated then at best there was 9 status passengers with some sort of aisle preference. So me as Platinum got pre-allocated 7D which was the 7th ranked forward aisle preference for that flight.

OK, so row 7 is not so bad and I am on a cheap ticket but I am also Platinum and should have a higher ranking than a Silver who paid $20 more for their seat. But according to the new check in system they will get preference over a Platinum. This could end up being a mistake for Qantas along with their implementation of select your seat sometime next year....

However, my take on this says that you will not see the seats assigned to anyone lower than WP. You were the 7th highest ranked CL or WP. on the flight. You have the option of moving to another seat and that would then bump the theoretical seat allocation of a lower status/value pax.

Me, as a NB, sees very few options forward of about row 15 except center seats. But those seats do open up over time, I guess as the higher value pax start to check in and the theoretical seats become actual seats.

 

[JohnK]

How were you sure that PS were ahead of you?

I am not certain. If the first 4 rows of economy had 7 aisle seats allocated and a Platinum was in the last of these allocated seats I would assume that passengers with lower status were in front of the Platinum. Unless of course the only people to get pre-allocated seats on the flight were Platinums and no other status passengers with aisle preference were on the flight. I find that scenario almost impossible.

The article does say that WP will get a better allocations than PS irrespective of fare paid.

Not from what I have experienced recently.

However, my take on this says that you will not see the seats assigned to anyone lower than WP. You were the 7th highest ranked CL or WP. on the flight. You have the option of moving to another seat and that would then bump the theoretical seat allocation of a lower status/value pax.

If you say this happens then I believe this to be totally unsatisfactory programming from QFs side. I should not be able to bump, using OLCI, anyone from their already allocated seat.

I think my original statement is correct. The seats on a flight are pre-allocated with a higher weighting on fare type and not status. How exactly this works I do not know and I think QF is struggling to cope with the configuration and implementation of the system.

 

[jamesatfish]

Just an interesting observation from a quick CBR-SYD-CBR trip I took last Friday. I thought I'd give the new checkin rules a whirl and trust whatever seats OLCI gave me. I'm a WP but not a huge earner - only 1400SCs last membership year.

CBR-SYD was a points redemption in Business on the first jet out of Canberra - a fairly busy flight most mornings. I used OLCI at about T-23:45 (7:00am the previous morning) and was SEQ #1. My forward isle preference scored me 3C - I checked the seat allocation and each of the rows in front had one seat already taken. Business was chock full (perhaps one free seat in row 5).

SYD-CBR was a paid economy ticket (cheapest fare available though I can't remember the booking class) on the pink Dash-8. Again I used OLCI at about T-23:30 and was SEQ #2. This time OLCI allocated me 8B, though looking at seat allocations I could have moved up to about row 4. My faith on OLCI was well founded - the flight was again fairly full but somehow I ended up with a free window seat next to me.

So whilst there might have been 4-5 'higher status' flyers ahead of me on the CBR-SYD leg, it didn't really affect my preference as I still got forward isle allocation.

On the SYD-CBR leg with maybe 10 'higher status' flyers I still got a forward isle allocation but somehow I managed to get a row to myself, where as all the 'higher status' flyers ended up with passengers next to them. I'd certainly take 8B with a free 8A over 1B with someone sitting in 1A.

 

[serfty]

Earlier this month, my NB B-I-L and I travelled from SYD on the same flight separate bookings, showing Y0 on the day of the flight.

I OLCI'd for both of us; we were allocated on a ZX, High 30's aisle with about 20% of the aircraft to pick from; none on the front 10 rows of WHY.

I had 23D; with 5 or 6 seats blocked from selection.

I do not think one can kcick others out of an allocated seat where the PAX has checked in; I do think there's a bug in the system whereby those travelling together on the one PNR with a "lower value" can be separated by a "higher value" PAX selecting the seat of one of these "lower value" PAX.

 

[medhead]

I should not be able to bump, using OLCI, anyone from their already allocated seat.

I think my original statement is correct. The seats on a flight are pre-allocated with a higher weighting on fare type and not status. How exactly this works I do not know and I think QF is struggling to cope with the configuration and implementation of the system.

I did not say you could bump someone from an allocated seat, but from a theoretical seat. The system allocates seat to everyone, then they start checking in and then seats are allocated. So I was less then clear. Inyour case you had 9 seats blocked so that would be the CL and WP theoretical allocation. The people behind you, assuming you are the lowest value wp, could be checked in sg. Your value ranking allowed you to pick row 10. If you did that the theoretical allocation for a lower value passenger would change.

That's my theory because when I check in first there are 30+ seats blocked. Obviously for higher value pax then me. But as they start to check in better seats open for me.

I'm not commenting on how the ranking is done but I don't think your conclusion is valid from the info presented. I'll have a better look when back at a computer.

SERFTY was your BIL travelling with a different itinerary? My brother was recently travelling on a multi sector itinerary, mum booked a single flight the same and asked to link the bookings. While a person could see the link against the bookings in the system, olci didn't. Whereas I've linked same itinerary bookings and both pax have been able to be checked in together via 1 booking reference.

Edit: I had to change some mistakes from my fingers typing on iphone. I had another look at JohnK discribed situation, I'm not sure how it means that a PS was given a better seat. IMO it means that there were 6 higher value people on the flight who may or may not have checked in already, and that there were 2 lower value people who had checked in by the time JohnK checked in.

 

[serfty]

... SERFTY was your BIL travelling with a different itinerary? ....

... same flight separate bookings ...

The bookings were not linked (with TCP's) either - as a WP i preferred to see what I would get on a fully sold flight (without carrying NB baggage) ...

 

[JohnK]

I'm not commenting on how the ranking is done but I don't think your conclusion is valid from the info presented. I'll have a better look when back at a computer.

I don't know the answer just my opinion from what I have observed since the new check in system was implemented.

In the first couple of months I was getting first row or at worse the second row of economy. To me this would suggest that my flights did not have that many Platinums on board and I was getting better seat allocations. The last couple of months I have noticed that I am getting seats allocated further back in the cabin. This can be due to a couple of factors. One is more Platinums are travelling on my flights or the weighting of seat allocations is done on airfare paid rather than status. I am travelling on the same flights for the past 4 months so I can almost rule out the possibility of more Platinums travelliing on my flights.

Now as to my observations for Sundays flights where there was 6 aisle seats blocked from me and I can almost be certain that these were not all Platinums. Last Friday nights flight had a Platinum across the aisle and the people in front of us did not even look like status flyers. I have also observed the boarding pass of people sitting in front of me on many other flights and most of them have a lower status or no status at all.

 

[medhead]

Now as to my observations for Sundays flights where there was 6 aisle seats blocked from me and I can almost be certain that these were not all Platinums. Last Friday nights flight had a Platinum across the aisle and the people in front of us did not even look like status flyers. I have also observed the boarding pass of people sitting in front of me on many other flights and most of them have a lower status or no status at all.

Well, that totally blows my theories out of the water.
But as a NB my limited experience has been that the most forward seat I could get was about a 7B for sequence number < 9.