NBN Discussion

[Quickstatus]

Well I may have updated all my apps. And downloaded a heap of Netflix programs for my travel without inflight entertainment.

Yes that’s ok but Netflix plus apps at most downloads at around 5-10Mbps

 

[JessicaTam]

Yes that’s ok but Netflix plus apps at most downloads at around 5-10Mbps

Four 40 minute episodes took about 15-20 seconds, if that. So at least an order of magnitude better than 5-10 Mbps. It surprised the heck out of me.

 

[Cossie]

God Luck for tomorrow. Which ISP did you choose and what cost if you don't mind me asking.
I have yet to bite the bullet. Our cutoff date for ADSL was within 6 weeks from March 8, but still going ok although it stopped for a few days and then revived.

Sorry Roger, I've been a bit slow. Connected the new modem Sunday, was doing stuff on the laptop Monday morning and things happened about 07:30am, no issues since, I've stayed on the same plan, we have fox through that plan as well

 

[coriander]

Sometime over the last 4 weeks we've had NBN connect the worst of all options - HFC - to our work premises with the attached box from the Telstra cable on the other side of the road. They claim it was installed between May and October last year but the pristine nature of the box and the fresh brick dust on the cable gives lie to their claim. Plus it's bl**dy obvious and not something you would miss walking past it daily for 6 months. But I digress. It's located at the front of the building adjacent to the front door and as far away from internal telephone infrastructure as possible, approximately 1.6m above ground and beside the footpath and driveway that lead to the front door.



Over the past 40 years all our phone lines have been underground from a Telstra pit in the street all the way into our building: this has provided security for our telephone lines, fax lines, alarm connection back to base and internet.

But not any more.

One snip of the cable and we lose all communications so landlines, alarm system (which works by high speed dialler back to base), personal duress buttons, internet, etc all drop out. IMHO a massive security threat to our business and an overall dumbing down of our formerly secure telephone network.

It gets better. There's special consideration for commercial premises.
However, my building is classified as a dwelling not a commercial premises - that's what the database says, so that's what it is.
NBN tell me they can move the box for a fee of ~$2000.
It must remain at the front of the building.
It must not be placed behind a wall, fence or gate.
It may not be hidden, concealed, covered or protected in any way.
It must be placed 1.5m above the ground so as to be easily visible from the public footpath for NBN staff..
It must remain accessible 24 hours a day to enable NBN to service the box and for persons of criminal intent to have easy access to cut the cable.

When I point out the security issue to the NBN, they say "go fixed wireless if you're worried".
They claim no-one else has ever raised any security concerns with them.

Quite apart from my business premises, how easy is it going to be for burglars or home invaders to disable private home NBN before attacking their building. Even if you have the latest internet alarm monitoring, you'll lose it in a snip.

I think I'll wait till after the election and talk to my local member who'll hopefully be in government, not opposition.

 

[33kft]

This is what we get when we wish for public administration of our utilities

I think I'll wait till after the election and talk to my local member who'll hopefully be in government, not opposition.

Given the lack of one single NBN related policy on either side (other than in home rewiring for FTTN customers and another review of nbnco by ALP), and given your member does not sound like they are fighting for their seat, they will not give a toss either way. So good luck with that.

 

[rogerkambah]

Agree totally with the security aspect. It stands out like the proverbials.
I dont have NBN yet, but my ADSL got cut off on Tuesday. Have been using mobile phone data for the last couple of days.
We will only get FTTN and I dont even know where the node is. I assume that the existing copper wire will be our connection point. Does everone get a box like yours or is that FTTP?

 

[33kft]

We will only get FTTN and I dont even know where the node is. I assume that the existing copper wire will be our connection point. Does everone get a box like yours or is that FTTP?

You should already have a box like that if your cabling is underground, it's the lead in from the street. I have FTTC (copper lead-in) and my existing lead-in installed by Telstra ~15 years ago looks like that, but with a Telstra logo of course. If you have overhead wires then you might not, it might tether to the roof. For FTTN they won't be changing anything around your property.

 

[rogerkambah]

You should already have a box like that if your cabling is underground, it's the lead in from the street. I have FTTC (copper lead-in) and my existing lead-in installed by Telstra ~15 years ago looks like that, but with a Telstra logo of course. If you have overhead wires then you might not, it might tether to the roof. For FTTN they won't be changing anything around your property.

Thanx for this info. We have overhead wires from the cables strung on poles at the rear of houses so as not to visually de-enhance the streetscape. There is no box like that.
Optus sent an email on Tuesday saying we were going to be cut off soon and 6 hours later that was it.
I must check that this terminates our contract with them and decide on a NBN provider.

 

[33kft]

Optus sent an email on Tuesday saying we were going to be cut off soon and 6 hours later that was it.
I must check that this terminates our contract with them and decide on a NBN provider.

That's interesting, I actually haven't discussed the activation procedure with anyone who is on FTTN before, it sounds like a very poor experience.

I can describe how it is done for FTTP and FTTC:

For FTTP, the fibre is run through the lead-in in parallel with the copper. The points are installed inside your premises and equipment installed within (the NTD). The copper continues to work until the decommission date on the NBN website, before which time you are obliged to have moved yourself, either with your current RSP or a new RSP.

For FTTC, there's a relay attached to the DPU (the curbside box) which senses whether or not the new NBN NCD is connected and is powering the curbside box. If not, your ADSL continues to work until the copper decommission date, when they snip the old copper pairs and you can only use the NBN NCD. Until then, no power means old ADSL is active, power means new FTTC is active. You make arrangements with your RSP and they send out a box with your NCD that you connect.

Now FTTN is interesting. There's no reverse power because they power it at the node, and there's no option to run them in parallel. They need to snip the pairs back to the exchange and reroute them to the node, where the new VDSL signal will originate. I guess, if your modem supports VDSL you'll probably be able to keep working without any interruption, assuming your current RSP migrates you across/enables your service.

Can you check something: Log on to the below website and put your address in, and then let us know the Service Class number that appears. That will describe how ready your premises is for NBN. From that it might be possible to work out where your house is in terms of connectivity.

Aussiebroadband POI Checker

 

[33kft]

Also one other question, is the Sync light on your ADSL modem lit or blinking? I would assume it would be blinking/off if it were trying to sync with an ADSL/ADSL2+ DSLAM and did not have VDSL capability. This would be about as close as possible to confirming that they have rewired you to the node.

 

[moa999]

Overe past 40 years all our phone lines have been underground from a Telstra pit in the street all the way into our building: this has provided security for our telephone lines, fax lines, alarm connection back to base and internet.

Even if you have the latest internet alarm monitoring, you'll lose it in a snip.

Any alarm should have mobile backup and a dedicated battery.

Your previous lines could also have been cut by a simple flip up of a pit lit and snip.

Wouldn't be too hard for someone capable to put some better shielding around that (I assume HFC cable). Even with FTTP it wouldn't have been any better - it also has a requirement for an outside box.

 

[rogerkambah]

@33kft The service class number is 12. Connection to be made via copper line with jumpering required.
The modem internet line is lit. Modem is a netgear DG834GU v5.

 

[Lynda2475]

Coriander that looks like a HFC connection, so can run in parallel to your existing copper until you decide to cut-over - there is 18 months from when your area goes RTC to you have to disconnect. Where it gets challenging is if you are an Optus customer who had Optus HFC, as they seem to be exempt form the 18 months fo coexistence and notorious for disconnecting their cable within 90 days (which nbn does not use) as soon as nbn becomes available, to save on their maintenance costs.

That said you should have been given notice before any termination of existing services occurred, definitely enough to research providers, make your choice and switch to nbn.

IF you have been disconnected and did not select a provider before hand then it is likely you have lost your landline numbers. It can be areal pain to try and get them back once disconnected rather than migrated to a VOIP service.

 

[Quickstatus]

That's interesting, I actually haven't discussed the activation procedure with anyone who is on FTTN before, it sounds like a very poor experience.

I can describe how it is done for FTTP and FTTC:

For FTTP, the fibre is run through the lead-in in parallel with the copper. The points are installed inside your premises and equipment installed within (the NTD). The copper continues to work until the decommission date on the NBN website, before which time you are obliged to have moved yourself, either with your current RSP or a new RSP.

For FTTC, there's a relay attached to the DPU (the curbside box) which senses whether or not the new NBN NCD is connected and is powering the curbside box. If not, your ADSL continues to work until the copper decommission date, when they snip the old copper pairs and you can only use the NBN NCD. Until then, no power means old ADSL is active, power means new FTTC is active. You make arrangements with your RSP and they send out a box with your NCD that you connect.

Now FTTN is interesting. There's no reverse power because they power it at the node, and there's no option to run them in parallel. They need to snip the pairs back to the exchange and reroute them to the node, where the new VDSL signal will originate. I guess, if your modem supports VDSL you'll probably be able to keep working without any interruption, assuming your current RSP migrates you across/enables your service.

Can you check something: Log on to the below website and put your address in, and then let us know the Service Class number that appears. That will describe how ready your premises is for NBN. From that it might be possible to work out where your house is in terms of connectivity.

Aussiebroadband POI Checker

Simple went to complicated with the MTM.

FTTN activation:
The technician does not have to attend the premises. The NBN just comes through the existing phone line. You get the VDSL modem and plug in the phone line and off you go.

FTTC: The curbside box DPU incorporates the existing copper pairs. There is a relay inside. There are 2 circuits inside the DPU - the Telstra side and the NBN side. While the DPU is inactive, the copper pairs remain on the Telstra side. The premises gets a special Modem called the NCD (network connection device) which is just a VDSL modem with a special additional feature. The feature is that this NCD provides reverse power to the curbside box (DPU) via the existing copper phone line. When the DPU senses this power input, it interrogates the NCD and if all correct, the relay switches the copper pair to the NBN side. Ideally this is how it should work. However in reality copper pairs have been mixed up. Some premises have more than one copper pair which also complicate matters. Some streets have copper pair bundles and it requires the techs to get the right copper pairs incorporated into the DPU.

FTTN: The copper pair bundle from exchange is snipped at the Node as the node is installed between the copper pairs coming from the exchange the copper pairs going to the street pillar. So the copper pair bundle (or cable carrying up to 200 copper pairs) have to carry both ADSL and VDSL as each premises switch over progressively. From the time the Node goes live that area will have 18 months of co-existence. During this time the VDSL signal power is turned down so as not to interfere with the ADSL signal on any adjacent copper pairs that may have ADSL within the cable.

Service 12:
NBN internet can be ordered via the RSP. All NBN has to do is to physically jumper the old ADSL to new VDSL at the Node. Once this is done, if even the NBN service is discontinued the jumpering will remain - they dont de-jumper the connection at the Node meaning it is usually impossibly to go from VDSL back to ADSL.

@coriander That is just so very CARP. One would think that at a minimum, the grey conduit goes all the way into the box. It would have taken an extra few cents worth of bendy conduit and an extra few minutes of time. But the techs are subcontractors and are paid per job and have to account for every millimeter of consumables they use. I have a place with FTTP, and B2B alarm providers are recommending 4G for that.

@rogerkambah . FTTN means nothing physically changes (ie no new boxes or bits of any kind) from the Node wherever it is to your telephone socket. You only need to plug the phone line inside your house to an NBN compatible modem. You should be able to see where your node is (by zooming into the map) with NBN MTM Alpha: Sometimes it is worth getting a licensed cabler to check the telephone lines inside your house in case it needs work done to maximise the NBN speed. Things like copper branching, old copper and poor connections can interfere with speed and stability.

 

[rogerkambah]

It all seems to be a bit of an (un) lucky dip with the only thing one can be certain of it that it will cost more.

 

[Lynda2475]

It all seems to be a bit of an (un) lucky dip with the only thing one can be certain of it that it will cost more

Definitely not the case for me - I pay less for my nbn than I did for ADSL2+ and like 10 times the speed

 

[DC3]

Definitely not the case for me - I pay less for my nbn than I did for ADSL2+ and like 10 times the speed

... well, there are winners and losers. Happy for you.

 

[Lynda2475]

You need to shop around and understand what you really need. Prior to nbn a lot of people were paying line rental + internet provider, post nbn there is no line rental as VOIP landline number is free with most RSPs. So an immediate saving there (although not for me as I havent had a land line since 2003).

The monthly cost of my old naked ADSL plan with iinet was $10 more a month than my new 50/20 plan with Aussie broadband. on ADSL I was lucky to get 5/1, now i get 49/19 consistently.

Telstra and Optus try to lock people in with contracts and bundles of stuff they don't really need - the best thing about the nbn is how it offers so much more choice of providers.

 

[Quickstatus]

It all seems to be a bit of an (un) lucky dip with the only thing one can be certain of it that it will cost more.

They call it Node Lotto. Your speed depends on how far your premises is from not only the Node but the Node to Pillar to You because that is the entire copper length. And sometimes a Node can be right outside a premises but the house is actually connected to another node further away, or the pillar is further from the house than the Node is. The closest Node may not be your Node.

For many people it will cost more and be more complicated.

 

[RooFlyer]

Telstra and Optus try to lock people in with contracts and bundles of stuff they don't really need - the best thing about the nbn is how it offers so much more choice of providers.

Very true, which is why I was amazed when, after shopping around for a business connection to my home office, and swearing black and blue that I'd go with anyone but Telstra, I ended up with ... Telstra! I must have just hit one of their rare sweet spots Best thing about them is the 4G dongle back-up if the NBN goes down. NBN has failed twice since I had it connected, apparently ... I didn't even notice, even though one outage was a full day!