Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[drron]

I'm a bit confused by this. Under the Aircraft section it has the 737-800 and NG listed which I thought were different from the MAX.

But read the pilots reports which all say the Max.

 

[JB expat]

But read the pilots reports which all say the Max.

In lay person terms - what does that document say? or more precisely, what should my take away be as someone who is supposed to fly - with my entire family - on a Max 8 in 3 weeks.

I'm looking for what you would tell me today - and not what we will know in 3 weeks time as I need to make a decision by Friday as to whether we eat the costs of our current booking and just rebook this leg. Thank you

 

[RooFlyer]

This is worth a read, ( but right through) especially re US pilots experiences: ( this is not meant to 'counter' drron's post/ link )

Two Boeing 737 MAX 8 pilots reported nosedives after engaging autopilot in 2018, data reveals - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Ummm...

"The problem as described by the pilots, however, did not appear related to a new automated anti-stall system that was suspected of contributing to a deadly October crash in Indonesia."

and

However, that anti-stall system — known by its acronym MCAS — only activates if the autopilot is turned off, according to documents Boeing has shared with airlines and the FAA.

"That's not to say it's not a problem," American Airlines pilot Dennis Tajer said of the incidents reported to NASA, "but it is not the MCAS. The autopilot has to be off for MCAS to kick in."

American Airlines spokesperson Ross Feinstein said the airline had received no reports from pilots about problems with the anti-stall technology. Southwest has said the same thing.

Leaders of the union representing United Airlines pilots, some of whom have flown the airline's 14 Boeing 737 MAX series jets since last May, said the airline has tracked 23,000 hours of flights and found no performance or mechanical problems.

 

[JB expat]

This is worth a read, ( but right through) especially re US pilots experiences:

Two Boeing 737 MAX 8 pilots reported nosedives after engaging autopilot in 2018, data reveals - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Ummm...

"The problem as described by the pilots, however, did not appear related to a new automated anti-stall system that was suspected of contributing to a deadly October crash in Indonesia."

Thanks for this (I think) - this is so disturbing. $(*%) I'm going to have to write-off $2000 of tickets (for 4 of us) and re-book our April Air Canada flight from Vancouver to Maui. I cannot believe Air Canada will not goodwill me a full refund.

 

[DC3]

…. I cannot believe Air Canada will not goodwill me a full refund.

… yes, and they continue to fly the MAX. What happened to safety coming first at all cost.

 

[ozfflyer]

I’m debating whether to write off $2000 to change a Vancouver to Maui flight. Neither USA nor Canada has grounded so out of options except self-funding change for 4 of us. It stinks. But nose diving into ground is worse.

Why ? Media hype ?

 

[ozfflyer]

Couldnt one of your kids get a virus a day or so before departure and you have to cancel your Max booking?

how would that help ? Airlines aren't charities.

 

[eric2011]

how would that help ? Airlines aren't charities.

I would assume that #denali is talking travel insurance

 

[ozfflyer]

I would assume that #denali is talking travel insurance

travel insurance companies aren't charitites either. Heard cases of supposedly sick people having to go to the insurance companies doctor & then their dodgy claim being denied.

 

[Daver6]

Thanks for this (I think) - this is so disturbing. $(*%) I'm going to have to write-off $2000 of tickets (for 4 of us) and re-book our April Air Canada flight from Vancouver to Maui. I cannot believe Air Canada will not goodwill me a full refund.

This is going OT for this thread. However, Air Canada don't owe you anything here. This is a choice you're making. There is zero conclusive evidence that suggests the two crashes are linked.

Having said that, I'd wait a little longer anyway. Seems each day more airlines/countries are grounding their aircraft. Maybe Canada/Air Canada are next.

 

[JB expat]

This is going OT for this thread. However, Air Canada don't owe you anything here. This is a choice you're making. There is zero conclusive evidence that suggests the two crashes are linked.

Having said that, I'd wait a little longer anyway. Seems each day more airlines/countries are grounding their aircraft. Maybe Canada/Air Canada are next.

How is it over the top when so many countries have grounded the planes? my home country (Australia) has grounded the planes. Here is the quote from CASA - sounds like the perfectly rational mindset:

CASA’s CEO and Director of Aviation Safety, Shane Carmody, said that in light of the two recent fatal
accidents, the temporary suspension of Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operations was in the best interests of
safety. “This is a temporary suspension while we wait for more information to review the safety risks of
continued operations of the Boeing 737 MAX to and from Australia.” Mr Carmody said.
“CASA regrets any inconvenience to passengers but believes it is important to always put safety first.”


Doesn't seem over the top to me to believe that I shouldn't fly on a Max 8 at the moment. The more I read, the more firm this belief becomes.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

How is it over the top when so many countries have grounded the planes? my home country (Australia) has grounded the planes. Here is the quote from CASA - sounds like the perfectly rational mindset:

Difficult decision. Good luck with your deliberations. Hopefully AC will announce a grounding soon.

 

[Daver6]

How is it over the top when so many countries have grounded the planes? my home country (Australia) has grounded the planes. Here is the quote from CASA - sounds like the perfectly rational mindset:

CASA’s CEO and Director of Aviation Safety, Shane Carmody, said that in light of the two recent fatal
accidents, the temporary suspension of Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operations was in the best interests of
safety. “This is a temporary suspension while we wait for more information to review the safety risks of
continued operations of the Boeing 737 MAX to and from Australia.” Mr Carmody said.
“CASA regrets any inconvenience to passengers but believes it is important to always put safety first.”


Doesn't seem over the top to me to believe that I shouldn't fly on a Max 8 at the moment. The more I read, the more firm this belief becomes.

OT - off topic
OTT - over the top

 

[jakeseven7]

Thanks for this (I think) - this is so disturbing. $(*%) I'm going to have to write-off $2000 of tickets (for 4 of us) and re-book our April Air Canada flight from Vancouver to Maui. I cannot believe Air Canada will not goodwill me a full refund.

Fingers crossed Canada follows the rest of the world and grounds the Max shortly. Or Air Canada do. Sorry to hear of your situation might be worth waiting a few days...

Back on topic, US aircraft mechanics and FA’s have broken ranks and demanded Max 8 should be grounded

Union Leaders Call for Grounding of Boeing 737 Max 8 Planes

 

[serfty]

To me it seems that if Boeing management felt the MAX was inherently unstable enough that it considered implementing augmentation software to be a higher priority than specific pilot training then there is a big issue.

 

[JB expat]

I will continue with my off topic as I have an update. Note I posted a new thread earlier today, but it didn't receive the input this thread has. I spoke to Air Canada after reading a new post about a goodwill gesture on its Facebook page. They had found me alternative flights on non MAX aircraft for only the $50/person change fee - waiving the fare difference. Routing would be painful - but doable and a huge relief. Spent 1 hour 20 minutes on the phone - much of the time on hold. At the very last minute after identifying the flights, finding 4 seats on both legs (as it is now a stopover), confirming that the planes were not MAX 8s, the agent returned after a very long hold and told me he was unable to process the flight because the goodwill policy requires that I be flying on the MAX 8 in the next 14 days. I am flying in the next 21 days. I am outside the goodwill window. He apologized for not knowing this 75 minutes earlier. He tried to convince me to wait until I'm in the window - who knows what the policy will be then. I guess that's what I'm doing. This is just way more stress than I need.

 

[JB expat]

Fingers crossed Canada follows the rest of the world and grounds the Max shortly. Or Air Canada do. Sorry to hear of your situation might be worth waiting a few days...

Back on topic, US aircraft mechanics and FA’s have broken ranks and demanded Max 8 should be grounded

Union Leaders Call for Grounding of Boeing 737 Max 8 Planes

WOW - somehow I'm feeling that there may be a grounding, which would actually open way more re-booking options. Can flight attendants refuse to work a specific plane? what would happen to them? What a legal mess. I also think that the legal exposure to both Boeing and any airline still flying the Max 8 is potentially bankruptcy size - isn't it just better to ground these planes from multiple perspectives?

 

[tgh]

A cynic might opine that Boeing are atm burning considerable resources in considering their options.
Denial keeps the ship sailing, pulling down the sails leads to the risk of being overcome by stormy seas.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

A cynic might opine that Boeing are atm burning considerable resources in considering their options.
Denial keeps the ship sailing, pulling down the sails leads to the risk of being overcome by stormy seas.

On the other hand, failing to pull in a few reefs when being over powered is poor seamanship that can wreck the vessel!

 

[coriander]

Rachel Maddow tonight reporting ""U.S. officials have said the federal government’s recent shutdown also halted work on the (Max8) fix for five weeks."