Qantas: 'one of the worst airlines in the free world'

[Choosethedrew]

My, my. I do seem to have touched a nerve. Thank you to m0hamed at flyertalk for alerting me to this thread. I did rather enjoy reading all of your comments, both positive and negative. We are back home and must say that my wife and I had a simply marvelous time in Australia. Tassie was a real treat with great weather, scenery and friendly people. And what's not to like about Hamilton Island, the GBR and Qualia, where we enjoyed one of the best meals of the past year.

Apologies to all for my ignorance about the MEL/SYD lounge set up and lounge titles. As a double One World Emerald (AA and BA), my status gets me access to any One World First Class Lounge anywhere, even when I don't fly international First. Indeed, I'm a regular in the LAX QF First Lounge when I fly domestic AA. When I'm not in a familiar airport, I have no problem asking even if others think that it may be a stupid question.

As for my criticism of your national flag carrier, a little perspective if I may. I am fortunate to accumulate millions of miles each year thru my businesses, so we travel Internationally frequently and virtually always in international First using miles. Since we've experienced the best of the best, anything less is obvious. Sorry, but QF First is closer to the bottom of my international First Class rankings. No doubt, the way I tell it as I see it may come across as entitled and whiney. If you think my criticism of QF is bad, you should read my FT comments about AA, UA and BA, three generally dreadful airlines much of the time. To anyone on FT, my reference to QF "as one of the worst in the free world" was clearly hyperbole. But I guess it worked as click bait. However, my characterization came after brutal day with QF which started with a 4:30am wake up call in Hobart. Between the comical HBA lounge, inedible breakfast on HBA-SYD, dire SYD lounge, no priority boarding anywhere despite Priority boarding signage that gate agents dutifully roll out for no apparent reason, breakfast offered on a lunch flight, uncomfortable 717 J seats and no Wifi, I was probably a little cranky.

By contrast, our 717 HTI-BNE flight (Economy exit row) was pleasant and comfortable, more comfortable than the J seats IMO. And our 789 BNE-LAX flight home was quite nice with an excellent crew and good food, albeit still no Wifi. Not very impressed with BNE domestic to international transit though, with the BNE international terminal so far away that it wouldn't have surprised me if it was in a different time zone. (Hint: hyperbole).

Some thoughts on some of your comments to correct the record or just to have fun.



We were flying First Class and indeed there is no nonstop (First Class) competition on the route.



Indeed there is an escalator at MEL. But how is non-regular to know where it leads? It was in the middle of the terminal with no apparent signage that I saw. It could have led to a bus gate or the airport prison for all I know. (Hint: hyperbole on the prison thing)



I wasn't complaining about lack of free wifi. I was complaint about the lack of wifi, period. As noted by another poster, every other airline flying from the US to Australia has wifi.



"Masses" or even "unwashed masses" are tongue in cheek flyertalk terms, which is where my report was posted. Other FT terms are lounge dragons who decide on access, and gate lice which refers to pax crowding the boarding lane prior to a boarding call, something that is annoyingly typical in the US and parts of Europe. Amazingly, I saw none of that in Australia.



LOL. Good one.

Kudos to you SFO777 for coming on here and facing the wrath! Seems like Qantas will be defended to the death whatever its misgivings by many, which I'm intrigued about since I conceded my national airline BA is an appalling carrier ages ago. But then even you must agree that BA is far worse than Qantas!! Might not fit with your thread title though

 

[SFO777]

Kudos to you SFO777 for coming on here and facing the wrath! Seems like Qantas will be defended to the death whatever its misgivings by many, which I'm intrigued about since I conceded my national airline BA is an appalling carrier ages ago. But then even you must agree that BA is far worse than Qantas!! Might not fit with your thread title though

Thanks Choosethedrew. I do agree with your assessment of BA as far worse. But at least BA adheres to Priority Boarding, allowing me to get to my phony Economy-seat-with-an-open-middle "Business Class" seat a lot faster and before the masses board.

 

[juddles]

My, my. I do seem to have touched a nerve. ...... As a double One World Emerald (AA and BA), my status gets me access to any One World First Class Lounge anywhere, even when I don't fly international First.......As for my criticism of your national flag carrier, a little perspective if I may. I am fortunate to accumulate millions of miles each year thru my businesses, so we travel Internationally frequently and virtually always in international First using miles. Since we've experienced the best of the best, anything less is obvious. Sorry, but QF First is closer to the bottom of my international First Class rankings. .....If you think my criticism of QF is bad, you should read my FT comments about AA, UA and BA, ..... my reference to QF "as one of the worst in the free world" was clearly hyperbole. But I guess it worked as click bait. ..

Hey there SFO777,

I have a couple of comments to make. And I state from the outset I am torn with respect to your apparent first thread, and also your appearance here. I agree and disagree with much.

I fly a "fair bit", and I agree that Qantas is not perfect, and as any other airline, can fail - especially after what you seem to describe as a cough day. I get that. We have all sufferred cough days. And we also forgive posts that are flavoured by that experience on the day.

But I want to help you by attempting to explain a few things you seem to have failed to grasp in a cultural sense. Let me explain....

(and for the record, in true Australian spirit. I recognize that these are just my opinions and I certainly make no claim to speaking for even the neighbours dog, let alone all my fellow Australians )

Yes, you touched a "nerve". But I suspect it is not what you think it to be. It is not about "attacking our national flag carrier". This is a simple yet very important concept. Australians are not 'nationalistic" like many other countries. We do not beat our chests and yell "Australia is the best". Your audience here in AFF are frequent flyers, and I don't think I have ever come across a single poster who is blindly nationalistic. some love Qantas, but others love Virgin. But that love has nothing to do with national pride. We are far more relaxed about such things.

In Australia, when you first post in a forum, or introduce yourself to a new crowd ( a new group of people), we value modesty far more than self-aggrandizement. You state you make your comments as a "double One World Emerald", as if that may impress or give you credit.To educate yourself more about Australia, please look up the meaning of the expression "whoopty doo", and how we use it here

Yes, we are a smaller nation than the USA, but you will find in our small forum people that make your travels look like a pauper's weekender.

The alleged title of whatever of your posts was seems to refer to Qantas being the "worst of the free world". Yet you say that you also hammer the major English and Yank carriers. Can you please tell me what are those amazing carriers that are the best in the "free world"? I would assume by those terms you will not be including the middle-eastern carriers? Please share who those free airlines are.

Again, this forum, and Australia, are tiny compared to comparitive forums and audiences in the USA. You express the success of your "click-baiting". That is a tad less acceptable here than in the USA.

I do like that you appeared here. I hope it is not just a single post. Just remember that here you are talking to an albeit smaller group, but you are not talking to a bunch of peasants that will hang off the every word of a "double Emerald" - Aussies despise pretentious people. If you want to do that, get involved in the other travel forums and social media tailored to half-wits - we carry our fair share in this great country - but they are not here

 

[SFO777]

The alleged title of whatever of your posts was seems to refer to Qantas being the "worst of the free world". Yet you say that you also hammer the major English and Yank carriers. Can you please tell me what are those amazing carriers that are the best in the "free world"? I would assume by those terms you will not be including the middle-eastern carriers? Please share who those free airlines are.

Just to be clear, I did not say "worst of the free world", I said "one of the worst".

FWIW, I do have a current personal ranking of all the international F products I've flown, free world or not since we can probably debate what constitutes free. These are overall rankings which include inflight hard and soft products, service, amenities (like wifi) as well as ground services such as lounges and personalized services.

1. Air France
2. Garuda Indonesia
3. Emirates
4. Qatar
5. Lufthansa
6. Cathay Pacific
7. Singapore
8. Swiss
9. Etihad
10. ANA
11. JAL
12. Korean
13. Malaysia
14. Thai
15. Asiana
16. Qantas
17. American
18. British
19. Air China
20. United (recently mercifully discontinued)

 

[juddles]

Just to be clear, I did not say "worst of the free world", I said "one of the worst".

FWIW, I do have a current personal ranking of all the international F products I've flown, free world or not since we can probably debate what constitutes free. These are overall rankings which include inflight hard and soft products, service, amenities (like wifi) as well as ground services such as lounges and personalized services.

1. Air France
2. Garuda Indonesia
3. Emirates
4. Qatar
5. Lufthansa
6. Cathay Pacific
7. Singapore
8. Swiss
9. Etihad
10. ANA
11. JAL
12. Korean
13. Malaysia
14. Thai
15. Asiana
16. Qantas
17. American
18. British
19. Air China
20. United (recently mercifully discontinued)

That is a very interesting list. I cannot argue the merits of the ranking, as have only flown half those in F. But apart from a few, I personally would not use the term "free world airlines' to describe the first 16 of your 20 airlines.

 

[juddles]

Can you also post a list of the "non-free world airlines" you take into your consideration?

 

[juddles]

Last comment - you rate Garuda over Emirates in First. Can I ask you how many flights you have done in each, and on what aircraft?

 

[Choosethedrew]

Hey there SFO777,

I have a couple of comments to make. And I state from the outset I am torn with respect to your apparent first thread, and also your appearance here. I agree and disagree with much.

I fly a "fair bit", and I agree that Qantas is not perfect, and as any other airline, can fail - especially after what you seem to describe as a **** day. I get that. We have all sufferred cough days. And we also forgive posts that are flavoured by that experience on the day.

But I want to help you by attempting to explain a few things you seem to have failed to grasp in a cultural sense. Let me explain....

(and for the record, in true Australian spirit. I recognize that these are just my opinions and I certainly make no claim to speaking for even the neighbours dog, let alone all my fellow Australians )

Yes, you touched a "nerve". But I suspect it is not what you think it to be. It is not about "attacking our national flag carrier". This is a simple yet very important concept. Australians are not 'nationalistic" like many other countries. We do not beat our chests and yell "Australia is the best". Your audience here in AFF are frequent flyers, and I don't think I have ever come across a single poster who is blindly nationalistic. some love Qantas, but others love Virgin. But that love has nothing to do with national pride. We are far more relaxed about such things.

In Australia, when you first post in a forum, or introduce yourself to a new crowd ( a new group of people), we value modesty far more than self-aggrandizement. You state you make your comments as a "double One World Emerald", as if that may impress or give you credit.To educate yourself more about Australia, please look up the meaning of the expression "whoopty doo", and how we use it here

Yes, we are a smaller nation than the USA, but you will find in our small forum people that make your travels look like a pauper's weekender.

The alleged title of whatever of your posts was seems to refer to Qantas being the "worst of the free world". Yet you say that you also hammer the major English and Yank carriers. Can you please tell me what are those amazing carriers that are the best in the "free world"? I would assume by those terms you will not be including the middle-eastern carriers? Please share who those free airlines are.

Again, this forum, and Australia, are tiny compared to comparitive forums and audiences in the USA. You express the success of your "click-baiting". That is a tad less acceptable here than in the USA.

I do like that you appeared here. I hope it is not just a single post. Just remember that here you are talking to an albeit smaller group, but you are not talking to a bunch of peasants that will hang off the every word of a "double Emerald" - Aussies despise pretentious people. If you want to do that, get involved in the other travel forums and social media tailored to half-wits - we carry our fair share in this great country - but they are not here

So if we substituted Qantas for a different airline in SFO777s review, would we get the same reaction? I can't see how we would, which leads me to believe Qantas is being conflated with Australians which I do not think is the poster's intention.

Personally I didn't read this trip report as in any way highfalutin or entitled, the poster uses the word "fortunate" to frame his mileage accruals. Nowhere did I interpret that bigger (USA) = better, nor did I read anything that made a value judgement on his status as somehow making him a superior individual, so your 'peasants' comment here is somewhat inflammatory. Instead, I read his review like a forensic analysis of what's marketed vs. what's delivered.

As for the "click bait", can we honestly say we were seduced by the title and the content was left wanting? It's a very full and informative trip report and it has only increased my desire to visit Tasmania.

 

[love_the_life]

So if we substituted Qantas for a different airline in SFO777s review, would we get the same reaction? I can't see how we would, which leads me to believe Qantas is being conflated with Australians which I do not think is the poster's intention.

Personally I didn't read this trip report as in any way highfalutin or entitled, the poster uses the word "fortunate" to frame his mileage accruals. Nowhere did I interpret that bigger (USA) = better, nor did I read anything that made a value judgement on his status as somehow making him a superior individual, so your 'peasants' comment here is somewhat inflammatory. Instead, I read his review like a forensic analysis of what's marketed vs. what's delivered.

As for the "click bait", can we honestly say we were seduced by the title and the content was left wanting? It's a very full and informative trip report and it has only increased my desire to visit Tasmania.

I think they would have had the same reaction from people who had a good knowledge flying whatever airline it was and who were able to comment. This happens to be a forum where most people have/do fly QF regularly and have seen the good and the bad. I don’t think people are acting as QF fanboys at all. We have acknowledged that QF comes up short many times and that the lounge in Syd in particular was bad. Not everything else in the report though seemed to warrant the assessment of one of the worst airlines in the free world.

Dang, I wasn’t going to comment any more.

 

[JohnK]

It's not exactly 'at all times'. I've sat in a QF lounge for a couple hours and not a single pass through with a sweeper.

And I'm sitting here now and I've dropped egg on carpet. Tried cleaning some of it but still spots there. Can't upload photo for some reason. I wonder how long before they notice and clean it.

 

[opusman]

And I'm sitting here now and I've dropped egg on carpet.

Deliberately?

 

[RooFlyer]

My, my. I do seem to have touched a nerve. Thank you to m0hamed at flyertalk for alerting me to this thread. I did rather enjoy reading all of your comments, both positive and negative. We are back home and must say that my wife and I had a simply marvelous time in Australia. Tassie was a real treat with great weather, scenery and friendly people. And what's not to like about Hamilton Island, the GBR and Qualia, where we enjoyed one of the best meals of the past year.

Generally well said @SFO777 - your FT post and your entry here. I stopped doing Flyertalk some time ago, as I found the level of abuse there spoiled my enjoyment in using it.

I also enjoy a good rant - and have frequently ranted about Qantas (as juddles will testify ). As a Tasmanian, one of my favorite rants is about the Qantas Club at Hobart Airport - and all of Hobart Airport for that matter. You were there in summer - imagine those long tarmac walks (can be +200m) in the middle of winter! I hope you come back to AFF for time to time - non Australian perspectives are always good,

The Islington was always going to be a good choice in Hobart.

 

[Pushka]

There isn't someone on hand to keep the floor spotless at all times. And one thing we easily forget is these are not Qantas staff in the lounges.

I'll see if I have time to check the floor in the BNE Business lounge tomorrow morning taking daughter back to Sydney.

This is irrelevant. It’s like the Council when it tells me the rubbish collection is not their problem and that I have to call the contractor if there is an issue. When the operator tells me this I point out that I pay the council to collect the rubbish and they they have to fix up the issue their contractor created.

Irrelevant - Qantas contract out their lounge operation and related services and for consumer intents and purposes the staff/management in the lounges are working for Qantas.

Exactly.

It's not exactly 'at all times'. I've sat in a QF lounge for a couple hours and not a single pass through with a sweeper.

Adelaide is pretty good at this but I’ve only been into the Sydney lounge once in recent times and it was pretty cruddy. This was mid afternoon.

If the OP achieves one thing then it might get Qantas to review its standards of cleanliness more frequently. If this mess was in the eating area of the airport I suspect it would reach the broad media.

However, I suspect that if by chance anyone at Qantas did see the title of the report, they would not get past that headline and dismiss the entire review as just a rant. Use of hyperbole and rectification of issues do not go hand in hand. If you need to exaggerate something to prove a point then you lose me right there.

 

[Choosethedrew]

That is a very interesting list. I cannot argue the merits of the ranking, as have only flown half those in F. But apart from a few, I personally would not use the term "free world airlines' to describe the first 16 of your 20 airlines.

Germany, France and Switzerland are not part of the free world?!

 

[Sprucegoose]

Look I couldn't take lounge criticism seriously from any American looking at their paucity of travel sophistication. They are still catching up to the rest of the world in that regard.

 

[Choosethedrew]

Look I couldn't take lounge criticism seriously from any American looking at their paucity of travel sophistication. They are still catching up to the rest of the world in that regard.

Setting sweeping generalisations aside for a moment, the OP himself is clearly well-travelled and has visited very many airport lounges and countries, as evidenced by his blog. Is his opinion null and void because of his nationality?!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Look I couldn't take lounge criticism seriously from any American looking at their paucity of travel sophistication. They are still catching up to the rest of the world in that regard.

I dunno. There's a lot to like about travel in the US:

• they usually manage ok in challenging conditions - snow, T-storms, you name it. We don't do so well with seemingly 'mild' weather by comparison.
• they have jet service to even very small cities, often multiple daily flights
• they have amazing rebooking policies - even putting you on other carriers. Unheard of here.
• they have priority boarding
• they actually answer their phones at call centres!
• their lounges can be basic, but I don't see them as any worse than our QF clubs here.

 

[justinbrett]

No ... but that's hyberbowl.

I ignore it in this context and concentrate on the reality.

Deity help us if VA ever goes under ...

Hyperbole even?

Hyperbowl - our answer to Super Bowl?

 

[straitman]

Both the FT thread and this are an interesting read and are all about perspective.

Just to be clear, I did not say "worst of the free world", I said "one of the worst".

FWIW, I do have a current personal ranking of all the international F products I've flown, free world or not since we can probably debate what constitutes free. These are overall rankings which include inflight hard and soft products, service, amenities (like wifi) as well as ground services such as lounges and personalized services.

1. Air France
2. Garuda Indonesia
3. Emirates
4. Qatar
5. Lufthansa
6. Cathay Pacific
7. Singapore
8. Swiss
9. Etihad
10. ANA
11. JAL
12. Korean
13. Malaysia
14. Thai
15. Asiana
16. Qantas
17. American
18. British
19. Air China
20. United (recently mercifully discontinued)

From an Aviation perspective I do not know of anyone who would ever rate Garuda near the top of any list, or would even fly on them for that matter.

I dunno. There's a lot to like about travel in the US:

• they usually manage ok in challenging conditions - snow, T-storms, you name it. We don't do so well with seemingly 'mild' weather by comparison.
• they have jet service to even very small cities, often multiple daily flights
• they have amazing rebooking policies - even putting you on other carriers. Unheard of here.
• they have priority boarding
• they actually answer their phones at call centres!
• their lounges can be basic, but I don't see them as any worse than our QF clubs here.

Once again perspective.

• From an Aviation perspective 'seemingly' is a good word to use.
• Agree
• Agree
• QF has priority boarding they just choose not to enforce it. Try walking to the front of the normal line as that works much better than the priority line.
• ... and if you are lucky you'll get someone you can understand. I couldn't the other day when I rang AA.
• Totally disagree

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Both the FT thread and this are an interesting read and are all about perspective.

From an Aviation perspective I do not know of anyone who would ever rate Garuda near the top of any list, or would even fly on them for that matter.

Once again perspective.

• From an Aviation perspective 'seemingly' is a good word to use.
• Agree
• Agree
• QF has priority boarding they just choose not to enforce it. Try walking to the front of the normal line as that works much better than the priority line.
• ... and if you are lucky you'll get someone you can understand. I couldn't the other day when I rang AA.
• Totally disagree

Coming from this that I don't know what an 'Aviation' perspective is... but GA is consistently rated in the top for its first and business class product (although first is largely being withdrawn now). Not relevant here but they also have an excellent economy class product compared their Australian competitors on flights to Bali - full service with lots of legroom. If you are in any doubt about GA's first class please see here:

• Review: Garuda Indonesia First Class 777-300ER London To Jakarta - One Mile at a Time
• Review: Garuda 777-300ER First Class Jakarta - Amsterdam - Live and Let's Fly

Airlineratings gives GA 7 stars. The highest available. Garuda Indonesia - Airline Ratings Same category as Qantas.

Some of AA's flagship lounges (OW Sapphire gets entry) are far superior to QF clubs, including champagne, tequila stations, bloody mary stations, varied and interesting buffets. But granted that's not all lounges. Their 'regular' clubs have cheese and olives and soups compared to our sliced (processed) ham and a camembert wheel. Same same.

I don't have any issues working with any of the AA or UA agents I've come accross. Calls answered either instantly or within a minute or two. And agents that consistently know what they're doing. Which is a marked difference from the 'general' line in Australia where it's often us that have to guide agents to get the correct outcome.