Email from QFF [FF Account suspended]

[christopherc]

There is scuttlebut on OzBargain that a well known points dealer, Tuvz, is being investigated by Qantas for violating Qantas rules. If true, the thousands of purchases he made over several years and the transactions of those people, could implicate tens of thousands if Qantas so choses to run the ruler over the entire net. I hope for your sake OP that you're not one of them.

nope

 

[burmans]

That's the key though - no bartering. It would be a reasonable presumption that unless sharing with family or something like a wedding gift... just 'giving' away points is pobably more unlikely than not. IIRC one of the cases where AA closed down an acocunt was where someone redeemed flights for themselves plus travelling companion and companion agreed to buy the accommodation. Not allowed as it was a barter.

That's a tough one, how did they know it was a barter and not just redeemng a ticket for a friend given they were travelling together. Not denying AA right, just questioning. I think many would just regard this as sharing expenses rather than bartering.

 

[33kft]

This reminds me of the story of those who purchased the AA lifetime unlimited flights card, only for AA to later realise their mistake as people were taking trips all over the place for lunch or to buy items and then fly back. They used investigative tactics strikingly similar to this to take away one guy's card, as he'd been offering people companion flights which they then paid him for, something that would seem undetectable.

In this case it was worth more to AA than selling some points would be, but it's the same team who investigated and revoked their passes as would investigate fraudulent transfers, and ultimately they did it by getting people to admit they'd paid for the seats.

Story is here, if anyone hasn't read it before: The frequent fliers who flew too much

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Could it be A possibility though that someone has dobbed OP in to QFF?

 

[33kft]

Could it be A possibility though that someone has dobbed OP in to QFF?

Yes, the accounts of all involved tend to get suspended when there are questionable transactions, and the admissions of others can certainly work against OP in this process.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

You know those niggles we have with QF? Inept chatbots, cheap bags of pretzels in J, the website trying to palm you off with Y legs in an F award request? I'm probably happy for those to stay if the company increased its strict enforcement of FF terms and conditions and vigilance of member activity.

 

[christopherc]

Just a question. We’re you by some chance attempting to ‘transfer’ (sell) points yourself?

i didn't sell any points

 

[Kerrodt]

@christopherc have you contacted Qantas yet? If so, what have you told them and what has been their response?

 

[christopherc]

i just call QFF Platinum center and the guy over the phone didn't know anything until he reached someone else. I told him some on the list are not from my family and he said QFF is still investigating until mid january.

i asked him why investigating as i said some people involved in the list are not my family and i bought some points... he doesn't know.

I made a mistake as i didn't know the policies of QFF and i have seen many people transferring points for friend when they needed some.

Telling me my account can be terminated is rude and if so i would never fly QANTAS anymore for sure.

I travel on QANTAS since 17 years and i always chosen QANTAS even if the airfare was more expensive and it was the case many many times as my wife asked why i choose the more expensive...

 

[christopherc]

Urch. But you are wrong. I get you are upset at Qantas due to the shock - and probable financial loss from purchasing a substantial amount of points you have now lost. I feel you’re seeking a way to ‘game the system’ or simply find a big stick to beat Qantas with. No one here can offer you that. Qantas are really, really specific about the rules on transferring points and you can’t really plead ignorance about it. But what isn’t going to work is trying to demonise Qantas over it. Your best chance is to accept that the fault lies with yourself, rather than Qantas. Concede that you were ignorant about the rules and work from there.

it is amazing how you blame people and know more than me what i think.

I don't want to cheat or "simply find a big stick to beat Qantas with" like you said !

i received many advices and i am happy for that.

criticizing people is so easy

 

[Scott K]

it is amazing how you blame people and know more than me what i think.

I don't want to cheat or "simply find a big stick to beat Qantas with" like you said !

i received many advices and i am happy for that.

criticizing people is so easy

I was just thinking the same thing when you were criticising Qantas rather than accepting your own recponsibility for the outcome.

 

[33kft]

The reason they are still investigating until mid January is they are busy closing the accounts of the people you bought from and anyone else who transacted from them. Not sure if you have fully comprehended to what length they will go to stamp out this behaviour but it will not be just you locked out of your account right now I assure you.

 

[christopherc]

@christopherc have you contacted Qantas yet? If so, what have you told them and what has been their response?

just call QFF Platinum center and the guy over the phone didn't know anything until he reached someone else. I told him some on the list are not from my family and he said QFF is still investigating until mid january.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Telling me my account can be terminated is rude

No it isn't. That's the same as driving whilst over the alcohol limit and saying the police are rude for telling you your driving licence can/will be suspended.

 

[christopherc]

No it isn't. That's the same as driving whilst over the alcohol limit and saying the police are rude for telling you your driving licence can/will be suspended.

there is a huge difference between driving drunk and receiving points from people.

 

[sudoer]

Telling me my account can be terminated is rude

Wow, pull your head in. If you break the rules what do you expect? You agreed to the T&C when signing up to QFF.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

there is a huge difference between driving drunk and receiving points from people.

...as there is a huge difference between receiving points from people Qantas does and does not allow.

I'm not making judgment on any specific person as I don't wish to make personal attacks but my opinion is solid and I've expressed it before: if any QF FF member receives points by any method outside the terms and conditions of QF FF then I have *no* issue with, at a minimum, those points being forfeited and at a maximum an account termination.

 

[mannej]

there is a huge difference between driving drunk and receiving points from people.

In consequences yes, but the premise remains the same.

At the end of the day you remain shady about the true extent of the number of points that you have purchased. 100-200k isn’t a small amount. Playing the I have always flown Qantas card won’t necessarily work, and you may end up having to cop this one on the chin.

 

[Scott K]

there is a huge difference between driving drunk and receiving points from people.

Okay. If you want some productive advice, here’s what I can offer you.
1: accept what position you have on the negotiating table. You have mostly everything against you. You have voided the T&C, and aren’t a major customer and you don’t carry a big stick. A businesss customer can spend in a day what you may spend with Qantas in a year. Nothing we can tell you will equalise that. You can’t plead ignorance to the T&C as you have already clicked the ‘Agree’ checkbox when you created your account.
2: be polite. You are exhibiting considerable anger. When trying to resolve problems your anger will only show even more if you aren’t able to contain it. Smile when talking and open up your tone when on the phone so you sound pleasant..Qantas have little to lose by closing you out, but customer service people are always happy if they think they can achieve a positive outcome. Show some humility and accept you did wrong.
3. Cut the ‘my cousins in America, why can’t I’ stuff. That shows you have a sense of entitlement on top of your ignorance if you can’t budge from that position. That’s school-yard stuff. What you retrospectively believed has no baring on the situation. Airlines are required by ASIC to not make points an unregulated surrogate currency. By ‘buying points’ you are in essence changing currencies. Airlines in Australia are regulated to not allow this to happen. This would have happened to you on Virgin, Qantas anywhere. You need to push that reasoning aside and instead work towards an outcome.
Which brings me to my final point.
4: it is all about saving face. You aren’t going to get the outcome you want. Open up an option for a positive outcome. Accept it. You voided the T&C and now it’s up to Qantas to decide what to do. Courts will side with Qantas if you take it legal. Even from the outside public point of view there’s likely to be little sympathy for you. As I said earlier show some humility and accept you did wrong. When negotiating consider the probable outcomes and open up an option for Qantas to steer it in that direction. Accept your purchased points are gone, and maybe some others you have done the wrong thing on. Salvage the other points you have by saying sorry and suggesting to Qantas you would be happy to keep the points earned properly if they can keep your account open. Who cares if you never fly with them again, just save face and let Qantas have an option to save face with a customer and provide a happy outcome.

 

[RoMambai]

I'm prepared to cut OP some slack. Not all of us zealously pore over Qantas rules, especially those based abroad like him. I'm prepared to accept that he believed his actions were within the rules at the time he did it.

I'm not condoning what was done but I do feel sympathy for his plight and wish him success in clawing back his points. I'm not confident though that he has much prospect.