Lost Luggage - Terrible experience with QF

[Phil Murray]

Hi All, I Just wanted to share our recent experience with Qantas and gather any tips you may have to proceed further. We have no interest in settling this partially and dealing with travel insurance (who will probably give us a similar run around and not pay at replacement value).


My recent trip back from Honolulu was and still is an absolute nightmare. Coming from someone who's travelled some of the lowest rated airlines in the world whilst backpacking around Asia my expectation of customer service is very low and I guess I had an expectation that if anything was to go wrong with Qantas we would be looked after, how was I wrong..

We were notified that one of our bags was held up (despite providing both bags to Qantas at the same time at the domestic transfer lounge) and that the second bag would be delivered to us the following day and we would receive a phone call advising a 3 hour window our bag would be delivered. Not ideal as we had been away for a while but we sucked it up and figured it could be worse.

The following day we received a call saying our bag had arrived and we would receive it between 3 and 6 pm. At 8pm we had not heard anything further and our bag still had not arrived, after calling Qantas baggage services and being on hold for 45 minutes (something that we are quite used to now) we were told the courier had arrived at 1pm but couldn't find our bag and they had no idea where it was.

They suspected the wrong courier may have taken our bag and it would come back eventually and they would call us the following day. After not receiving a call the next day we called back and nothing had been received. The 3 staff were laughing at how ridiculous the situation was, something we took great offence to.

3 days later we called back for an update and asked kindly for some form of allowance for everyday items and advice around whether we could start replacing a few items. A member of staff thought this was quite reasonable and couldn't believe we weren't offered anything prior but after speaking to her manager she offered 2 x lounge passes. Absolutely useless, we have no plans to fly Qantas and there's no way they will help us in this situation. We of course declined this offer.

Forward 21 days until our baggage would be considered lost we submitted a lost baggage claim for $3.9k - We were offered $2k as a final claim and asked to sign a confidentiality agreement and a form which relieves Qantas of any responsibility.

I've been asked to do this despite 2 members of staff admitting it was 100% qantas' fault. They couldn't believe couriers could just take whatever bags they wished and there was no need to sign in or out bags. We are told we are free to claim the additional through travel insurance something we have no intention to do.

Qantas need to take responsibility for what they've done and simply reimburse the full replacement cost of our items. We are not asking for anything over and above this despite the countless hours we've spent on this case.

 

[blacksultan]

Have you considered approaching the Airline Consumer Advocate?

 

[Phil Murray]

Have you considered approaching the Airline Consumer Advocate?

Wow, i didn't know this existed. Thank you so much

 

[RooFlyer]

Hi Phil Murray and welcome to AFF - its under circumstances that many newcomers join for. I hope you stick around and enjoy what the site has to offer.

A number of people have been in your situation and have had unsatisfactory experiences with Qantas. If you have 'officially' received Qantas' final offer, with conditions, then I'm afraid I can only suggest is to try to make an appointment in person with someone in the Qantas 'system' - a state manager? That's what I did when my bags went AWOL - fortunately they turned up. Getting above the robots with no authority can often help. Other than that, its either claim the balance on insurance, or formal legal proceedings (Airline Consum. Advocate), as ridiculous as that may sound - sorry. Qantas has little to lose in holding out with their $2K offer. Its cough, but the way it is.

BUT can you adequately document the amount you are claiming? This will be crucial. Personally I now photograph each layer as I pack my checked bag - so I can demonstrate exactly what was in it (and remind myself of the small items too).

The last thing, although its very late in your process, is to remain factual when dealing with Qantas, and keep notes on names, times and content of interactions.

ps sometimes people will come out and imply its the passenger's fault, in not claiming insurance, not having documentation, or its the bag agent's fault etc. Don't worry about that - you have every right to claim the full amount on Qantas but at the end of the day, you have to know when to fold 'em.

 

[Phil Murray]

Hi Phil Murray and welcome to AFF - its under circumstances that many newcomers join for. I hope you stick around and enjoy what the site has to offer.

A number of people have been in your situation and have had unsatisfactory experiences with Qantas. If you have 'officially' received Qantas' final offer, with conditions, then I'm afraid I can only suggest is to try to make an appointment in person with someone in the Qantas 'system' - a state manager? That's what I did when my bags went AWOL - fortunately they turned up. Getting above the robots with no authority can often help. Other than that, its either claim the balance on insurance, or formal legal proceedings (Airline Consum. Advocate), as ridiculous as that may sound - sorry. Qantas has little to lose in holding out with their $2K offer. Its cough, but the way it is.

BUT can you adequately document the amount you are claiming? This will be crucial. Personally I now photograph each layer as I pack my checked bag - so I can demonstrate exactly what was in it (and remind myself of the small items too).

The last thing, although its very late in your process, is to remain factual when dealing with Qantas, and keep notes on names, times and content of interactions.

ps sometimes people will come out and imply its the passenger's fault, in not claiming insurance, not having documentation, or its the bag agent's fault etc. Don't worry about that - you have every right to claim the full amount on Qantas but at the end of the day, you have to know when to fold 'em.

Hi Rooflyer,

Thank you so much for your informative reply and empathy. We have received our 'final' offer to the full value of the montreal convention and have been referred to travel insurance to claim the additional amount. We do have invoices for all items purchased within 6 months but do not have photos of everything we travelled with, something i will definitely be doing from this point onwards. I've again today told Qantas i will not be accepting partial compensation if it means signing a confidentiality agreement. I would be more likely to just accept the offer and try my luck with travel insurance if it was not lost a second time. I was told they found my baggage it arrived in Melbourne and it was being delivered, then it disappeared from a room only Qantas staff and couriers have access to, this is my main argument for why this shouldn't just be paid to the value disclosed in the montreal convention. I also have recordings of staff saying this was 100% Qantas' fault. Surely common sense should prevail given guilt has already been permitted and i should be paid out the complete amount i am claiming (which is reasonable and illustrates market value of used items and invoices for items purchased within 6 months.

I really was expecting a lot more from Qantas. I've now requested an additional internal review from Qantas and submitted a complaint to the airline consumer advocate, despite having nil excess insurance i don't see this as an issue i should be relying on my personal insurance for at this stage and aim to hold the guilty party accountable.

Phil

 

[eric2011]

Just want to clarify. Is this a suitcase and some clothing/personal effects that is lost and you are claiming it is worth just under $4000 ?

 

[opusman]

Montreal Convention limits the compensation to about the $2K mark which is what you've been offered. Bad service yes but legally travel insurance is your only recourse for the remaining value.

 

[Phil Murray]

Montreal Convention limits the compensation to about the $2K mark which is what you've been offered. Bad service yes but legally travel insurance is your only recourse for the remaining value.

Hi Opusman, i've managed to get Qantas to reconsider my claim. I've pointed out that the Montreal convention states 'per person' and this was shared luggage which appears to be a bit of a grey area. Fingers crossed!

 

[Dr Bob]

Just want to clarify. Is this a suitcase and some clothing/personal effects that is lost and you are claiming it is worth just under $4000 ?

My son, when travelling Europe for work, has 2 smaller checked cases for this particular reason. He puts a suit & shoes in each case. That's his 2K done per case & while he hasn't lost one he has had them (usually one) delayed. A pain to drag around but does clip/strap them together.

 

[Phil Murray]

My son, when travelling Europe for work, has 2 smaller checked cases for this particular reason. He puts a suit & shoes in each case. That's his 2K done per case & while he hasn't lost one he has had them (usually one) delayed. A pain to drag around but does clip/strap them together.

This is something i will definitely be doing for now on. Photograph the contents and ensure there's only $2k worth of stuff maximum in each suitcase.

 

[NM]

My personal experience is that it can be easier to make a travel insurance claim than to deal with the airlines. On the few occasions I have had to claim on travel insurance for baggage issues (delayed, not completely lost) they have been very easy to deal with. Provide all the details and claim accepted and paid. Then leave it to the insurance company to decide if they want to make their own claim from the airline to reduce their liability.

 

[Phil Murray]

My personal experience is that it can be easier to make a travel insurance claim than to deal with the airlines. On the few occasions, I have had to claim on travel insurance for baggage issues (delayed, not completely lost) they have been very easy to deal with. Provide all the details and claim accepted and paid. Then leave it to the insurance company to decide if they want to make their own claim from the airline to reduce their liability.

Thanks for the advice. I've already started a claim and have asked for what the net assessable value will be based on my items. If this is acceptable I'll just take the $2k which has been offered. I was thinking the insurance may be a little bit more stringent,
EG - Assessing a hair straightener which is still the current model but 3 years old and is working perfectly at Nil value when we will need to spend $180 to buy the same one again or $100ish for one in a similar condition.

My interactions with insurance at this point have been positive and hearing that the insurance may then make a claim makes me feel better about the situation.

I must say I appreciate all the constructive and positive advise given on the situation. It would be easy to turn around and say 'stop complaining take their offer as per law and claim through insurance'.

 

[n7of9]

i also have recordings of staff saying this was 100% Qantas' fault.

The matter seems to be moving along well, but I read the whole thread and this sentence stood out to me.

I 'think' it might be a legal no-no in Australia to record people without their consent so you might want to exclude this information in any of your dealings with Qantas or the insurer.

I hope it all works out well for you. I used to travel with a small toiletries case (like a 1950's hatbox thing) which for some reason was delayed by 3 separate airlines on 3 consecutive trips. I no longer use the cursed thing, but I know how frustrating it is talking to airlines about such things. Stick it to them for all of us

 

[dajop]

I 'think' it might be a legal no-no in Australia to record people without their consent so you might want to exclude this information in any of your dealings with Qantas or the insurer.

What is the case if the OP knows the conversation is already being recorded (as nearly all customer service calls are)? Alternatively referring "there is a recording of ... " (that QF would have to retrieve) rather than "I have a recording of ...? "

 

[Phil Murray]

What is the case if the OP knows the conversation is already being recorded (as nearly all customer service calls are)? Alternatively referring "there is a recording of ... " (that QF would have to retrieve) rather than "I have a recording of ...? "

Good question. My understanding was the phone call recordings would be inadmissible in a court of law to be used as evidence however it's not illegal just to record a conversation and store it on my phone. Afterall the conversation is being recorded by Qantas so why shouldn't i have my own personal copy to refer to?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The airline's liability under the Montreal Convention (1131 SDRs IIRC) is about what they are offering to pay you out in this case. The rest you would normally get from travel insurance.

One angle you could perhaps try - and I'm not sure how this would work - is that the sequence of events takes it outside the Montreal Convention. The bag wasn't lost during transportation by air, it was lost by the ground handler. It was the ground handler's processes and procedures (taking a bag without signing etc) that caused the bag to be lost, therefore, you'd argue, the limits of Montreal might not apply (because this was ground transportation).

Montreal also has an exclusion to the payout limit if you can show the airline (or its contractors) were negligent or reckless. It might be the case to argue the [lack of] procedures by the ground handler were reckless.

 

[kookaburra75]

S

Good question. My understanding was the phone call recordings would be inadmissible in a court of law to be used as evidence however it's not illegal just to record a conversation and store it on my phone. After all the conversation is being recorded by Qantas so why shouldn't i have my own personal copy to refer to?

It's a grey area, but as you have said it's to maintain a record of conversations for later reference, it's a whiter shade of grey. When I'm getting into some of these conversations with 'agents' I start by saying I am recording the call for quality and training purposes, which is ok. I have had a few awkward moments as well, as they try and process what I've said.

But I feel for you having gone through "almost lost" luggage with QANTAS coming back from New Zealand a few weeks ago. Good luck with it all, and hang around AFF for the lighter side of things, such as the Trip Reports - I could recommend a few of the usual suspects to follow, but that would be telling...

 

[serfty]

The airline's liability under the Montreal Convention (1131 SDRs IIRC) is about what they are offering to pay you out in this case. The rest you would normally get from travel insurance.

"1,131 SDR per passenger" - there is no reference to "per bag".

Montreal Convention - Wikipedia

 

[NM]

Personally, I do not think it is reasonable to expect an airline to pay more than the amount defined under the Montreal Agreement. After all, when they accept a bag for carriage they are accepting the risk/liability for that bag knowing there is a maximum liability defined. If there is an expectation that they are liable for a higher risk value then they would need that value to be defined and agreed at check-in and assign a cost to the customer to cover the increased risk liability. Any insurance policy has an upper limit to what they will cover. It is just that most Travel Insurance policies are structured such that the maximum cover for lost baggage is higher than the risk covered by the airlines under the limits defined in the Montreal Convention.

So regardless of fault, the airline's liability is limited by the Montreal Convention. If we do not like that limit, then we have the option to take out travel insurance or some other form of insurance to cover the value of the personal items being handed to the airline for carriage.

The only other option is to sue the airline for negligence, which technically may be possible in this case, but could prove lengthy and expensive. Hence why I place importance on ensuring I have adequate insurance to mitigate my risk.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Sure, the Montreal Convention is perhaps reasonable... but that assumes the loss of the baggage is actually accidental.

When the airline further contracts with a company that loses the bag, and it appears, according to the OP, that the contracted company doesn’t have solid processed and procedures in place... why should an airline be able to hid behind that?

Where do you draw the line?