Monumental Stuff up by Qantas

[drron]

Per the OP, the email of 24/9 made it clear that the booking had not been completed. How could anyone possibly interpret that as confirmation of the booking? It was exactly the opposite!

Because it said fill out the details online which she did.

 

[serfty]

- 24th Sept 2017: l receive an email asking me to provide more information via a link to complete my booking.
I go to the link and provide the required info.

- 4th Jan 2018: l receive an email from Qantas quoting my booking number telling me that there is a 25min time change to the above-mentioned award flight.

The above could easily be construed by a 'layperson' to indicate to that the booking was fine.

Note they used 'flight search assist' for the routing, which itself implies they may not be as aware of the nuances of ticketing to the same degree as many others here.

 

[mannej]

You can still select seats once you have a PNR, even if not ticketed. So that doesn't help as a 'check' and can make it even more confusing for the layman.

Is that completely true? I could have sworn QF would only let you select Window/aisle preference if the booking wasn’t ticketed?

 

[Jack_OC]

Because it said fill out the details online which she did.

It was an email saying that they could not complete the booking as they needed more details. In other words, it made it very clear that the booking was not confirmed at that point.

I understand that the OP then filled out the details as requested, so she could reasonably have expected that QF would go on to confirm the booking shortly afterwards (again, I agree QF stuffed up there). However, it seems she heard nothing further for over 3 months, yet simply assumed that it was confirmed?

In summary, it seems that the only correspondence she received from QF between her original phone call on 18 Sept and the subsequent schedule change email on 3 Jan was a message telling her that they could not complete her booking. And meanwhile she had not been charged for the flights. I believe that set of circumstances would prompt most people to wonder if there might be a problem - not just AFFers.

The above would be indicate to a 'layperson' that the booking was fine.

I agree that the email on 4 Jan may have suggested to a layperson that the booking was fine. But what about during the 3+ months before then? Given her failure to seek (or apparently expect) any confirmation of the booking prior to 4 Jan, it's hard to be convinced that the email on 4 Jan actually made any difference.

 

[Glider_]

Given her failure to seek (or apparently expect) any confirmation of the booking prior to 4 Jan, it's hard to be convinced that the email on 4 Jan actually made any difference.

I disagree, I think it makes all the difference. Why on earth would any airline send anyone a schedule change notification for a flight they're not on? To the layperson (or even an experienced traveller), it makes perfect sense to receive information related to a booking you have made.

No, it is not an e-ticket, and no, it is not an official confirmation. But it is a (seemingly) solid indicator that the airline expects you to need this information and it is an indicator to the customer that the booking exists. The fact that this notification was sent is to me a critical Qantas failure.

It IS odd that the OP would fly with nothing at all in writing from Qantas about the flight. But did they? I think we need some further detail from the OP about what paperwork (if any) they did receive from Qantas.

 

[drron]

I feel sorry for you Jack.You have obviously never made a mistake in your life.
So it makes it nearly impossible for you to know what us mere mortals think.
To many of us once supplying the info requested on line we would think things were fine if QF did not inform you otherwise.

 

[Glider_]

And where did she enter the additional required information into on their website? It wouldn't happen to be a page called "Booking Manager", would it? If so, that's a realllllly strong indicator to a customer that a booking exists. To a customer, a booking and a ticket should be one and the same.

Is there any other way that the Qantas website can accept further passenger details? (I rarely use Qantas so honestly don't know)

 

[dajop]

There are two kinds of people in this world, those who see things in black and white, those who see shades of grey. That is clear from this thread. Those of us who see shades of grey would suggest that both the OP and QF have responsiblity for what went wrong. Those who see black and white blame the OP, or blame Qantas. I just can't see how anyone could entirely blame one or the other party, unless you are a Qantas staff member not wanting to admit fault and incur liability.

 

[Jack_OC]

I disagree, I think it makes all the difference. Why on earth would any airline send anyone a schedule change notification for a flight they're not on? To the layperson (or even an experienced traveller), it makes perfect sense to receive information related to a booking you have made.

No, it is not an e-ticket, and no, it is not an official confirmation. But it is a (seemingly) solid indicator that the airline expects you to need this information and it is an indicator to the customer that the booking exists. The fact that this notification was sent is to me a critical Qantas failure.

It IS odd that the OP would fly with nothing at all in writing from Qantas about the flight. But did they? I think we need some further detail from the OP about what paperwork (if any) they did receive from Qantas.

I don't really disagree with you here - especially about needing more info from the OP.

My comment about the 4 Jan email not making any difference was simply on the grounds that there are multiple people arguing that it's irrelevant if the OP received no confirmation from QF up front. If the absence of any confirmation was irrelevant, then presumably it wouldn't have made any difference if she had not received the email on 4 Jan. She either knew to expect some kind of confirmation or she didn't. If she did know, then why wait >3 months without taking any action?

I feel sorry for you Jack.You have obviously never made a mistake in your life.
So it makes it nearly impossible for you to know what us mere mortals think.
To many of us once supplying the info requested on line we would think things were fine if QF did not inform you otherwise.

What an utterly bizarre comment! I simply responded to your claim that "the OP had an email saying they had been booked on the flights" to point out that I don't think she did receive such an email (based on both her own initial post and my experience with QF). You then went out of your way to claim that an email advising her that the flights had not been booked constituted an email confirming that they had been booked!

I don't think I'm the one refusing to admit a mistake here!

And where did she enter the additional required information into on their website? It wouldn't happen to be a page called "Booking Manager", would it? If so, that's a realllllly strong indicator to a customer that a booking exists. To a customer, a booking and a ticket should be one and the same.

Is there any other way that the Qantas website can accept further passenger details? (I rarely use Qantas so honestly don't know)

I don't know where the info would have been entered (I've never come across such a request). However, the OP has already confirmed that the email advised her that her booking had not yet been completed. So again, I don't see how anyone could have taken this as a strong indicator that the booking was confirmed. Similarly, you can go onto the QF website right now and click on a page entitled "Book a Trip", enter details of the flights you want, add your personal details ..... but even doing all of that doesn't mean you have a confirmed booking. I think most people understand that.

Anyway, my parting thoughts are that I agree QF stuffed up and provided poor service, but I also think the OP failed to take anything like the level of responsibility that she should have taken for her own arrangements. And if QF never confirmed that the booking had been completed/ticketed, and never took any payment, I don't see how there could be any grounds for compensation.

 

[BD1959]

There are two kinds of people in this world, those who see things in black and white, those who see shades of grey. That is clear from this thread. Those of us who see shades of grey would suggest that both the OP and QF have responsiblity for what went wrong. Those who see black and white blame the OP, or blame Qantas. I just can't see how anyone could entirely blame one or the other party, unless you are a Qantas staff member not wanting to admit fault and incur liability.

LOL ... love it!

I definitely see black and white - otherwise known as lack-of-contract - and I definitely don't work for Qantas!

Any advance of three types of people??

Regards,

BD

 

[PJF]

LOL ... love it!

I definitely see black and white - otherwise known as lack-of-contract - and I definitely don't work for Qantas!

Any advance of three types of people??

Regards,

BD

How about 4 types

Those who know they know
Those who know they don't know
Those who don't know they know
Those who don;t know they don't know

 

[opusman]

Actually there are 10 types of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[PJF]

Actually there are 10 types of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

AHHH. A zeros and ones person or is it ones and zero

Anyway does it seem odd that we all have theories on what could of happened or could not have happened with the OP experience but with a lot of missing information. The OP is somewhat silent and has not provided any further info regarding a lot of gaps.

 

[badseed]

The ultimate test is whether a reasonable person in the OP's position would have assumed that the booking was confirmed - not the average AFF forum lurker. So whilst you may not have a terribly sympathetic audience here, but in reality maybe 75% of people would've assumed as you did.

QF will do everything they can to deny any complicity and hence liability. My advice is just keep putting your case forward. Escalate to other bodies when / as necessary.

Best of luck!

 

[SuzieQ68]

An interesting read. The only thing I can contribute to the discussion is a question about the Booking Confirmation vs the E-Ticket. I've just responded to a question by another poster in another thread about them only receiving a Booking Confirmation for an upcoming Vueling Flight.

In July last year (2017) I purchased Vueling flights (whilst I was in Europe) and only received a Booking Confirmation - no E-Ticket. I didn't have a problem with my booking - everything went to plan. Checked in online and dropped our bags off at the airport. Based on the what is being written here, technically I didn't have a booking as a didn't have an E-Ticket.

Is this just an 'airline' thing (ie some airlines send E-Tickets) but some airlines (ie LCC's) only send Booking Confirmations? Just had a look and the same thing happened with an EasyJet booking - only received a Booking Confirmation - no E-Ticket.

Just curious??

 

[JohnM]

The OP is somewhat silent and has not provided any further info regarding a lot of gaps.

Given the storm the OP unleashed, it's disappointing that they haven't come back with at least some clarifying responses.

I think we have periodically seen the same type of thing: an OP comes on with a complaint often expressed in a very long and complex post, sets off a frenzied thread that can get polarised, but then - strangely - fails to continue participating.

 

[drron]

Given the storm the OP unleashed, it's disappointing that they haven't come back with at least some clarifying responses.

I think we have periodically seen the same type of thing: an OP comes on with a complaint often expressed in a very long and complex post, sets off a frenzied thread that can get polarised, but then - strangely - fails to continue participating.

Well the OP has made 2 further posts after the initial post plus liked a response.
As well hasn't just come on to complain with 70 posts prior to this.

 

[RoMambai]

As well hasn't just come on to complain with 70 posts prior to this.

Which is the also the reason I couldn't understand why the OP was being described as a novice. Someone who has been an AFF member for 4 years and who has contributed to numerous discussions isn't what I would characterise as a layman in this incorrigible habit of ours. And not certainly when the issue of ticketing has been such a hardy perenial on this forum.

It could explain why the OP had the confidence to embark on a redemption award from Cuba in the first place which wouldn't typically be a destination one would expect a newbie to cut their milk teeth on. Notwithstanding the valour of many in the AFF community, I suspect the OP isn't as helpless as some have made out and nor was the mistake by Qantas as monumentous as claimed, at least not relative to the responsibility (or possibly lackthereof) of the OP herself.

 

[Peter D]

Hang on folks. There could be many legit reasons for the OP not yet posting further.

As I write it is still less than two days since the original post.

I am embarrassed to admit I can go several days or more between logging on, even when I get emails about threads I am following.

 

[JohnM]

Well the OP has made 2 further posts after the initial post plus liked a response.
As well hasn't just come on to complain with 70 posts prior to this.

I had seen the two further posts - which were both within two hours of the OP.

The 'like' was in response to, effectively, a message of condolence. IMHO, that reinforcement, and early in the piece, doesn't count for much.

I am certainly not wishing to denigrate the OP but, to me, something is passing strange.

I merely make the following observations:

1. It is now two days (OK, not long) after the OP ignited a bit of a firestorm, but so far they have not made a further contribution to clarify/hose down/do a mea culpa/say thanks/object/backtrack/retreat/further explain... the list goes on. But the battle they ignited does go on.

2. I had a quick scan of the headlines of the OP's 70 posts. Maybe it's just my interpretation, and with respect to the OP and subject to the fact that I have not read, in toto, each thread, but the OP seems to fairly often seek advice/explanation on somewhat clumsy matters.

3. My general view (for which I am happy to stand corrected) is that folks who complain the loudest/longest/in the most turgid way/with the most bellicose title invariably contribute in disproportionately large measure to the problem they are complaining about. (That is not to say there is not fault on the 'other' side.)

Summing up in words of one syllable: IMHO there is more to these things than first meets the eye...