How do you know if you're a dual citizen or not?

[Moody]

So now that the dust has settled, I would assume that the following would happen :-

Baa-naby Joyce would realise that voting on legislation and being the Deputy PM whilst his right to even be in parliament is under a long white cloud is .... UNCONSCIONABLE. That was my mistake - he has no conscience.

Julie Bishop would apologise unreservedly for her ridiculous statement that she wouldn't work with an elected NZ government because they raised a question about Baa-naby's nationality. Wrong again - she is now in the Dispicables bucket with most of the her party.

The harpies and hypocrits that DEMANDED Bill Shorten prove his legitimacy to be an MP would now apologise for making complete idiots of themselves, and realise that they now HAVE to remove Baa-naby else be seen as morally bankrupt. Yep - they have done neither of these things.

But apparently we are now going to have a mature debate about marriage equality .....

 

[junbugging]

[44. Any person who -
(i.) Is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power (...)

shall be incapable of being chosen or of sitting as a senator or a member of the House of Representatives.]

Interpreting the "or" as usual leads to:

Any person who (...) is a subject or a citizen (...) of a foreign power

Doesn't seem to leave a whole lot of wiggle room.

From my reasonable understanding of the area of law Barnaby Joyce is absolutely fine. Although the High Court will not be bound by precedent on the matter.

For those not familiar with constitutional law or constitutional interpretation by the High Court, you should note that the court does not favour a literal approach, rather it favours an approach which focuses on the purpose of the law. It is on this basis that I have indicated that Barnaby is fine.

Nice to see the letter of the law prevail. Now it's time to change the law itself.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Nice to see the letter of the law prevail. Now it's time to change the law itself.

Surely the ‘new’ Solicitor General’s giving the advice to the government that the previous one wouldn’t. Surely his position is now untenuous?

 

[junbugging]

Surely the ‘new’ Solicitor General’s giving the advice to the government that the previous one wouldn’t. Surely his position is now untenuous?

Tenuous and untenable, I would presume and hope.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Tenuous and untenable, I would presume and hope.

LOL. Yes. double negatives seem to rule these days. (I blame iOS auto correct of course.)

 

[opusman]

Biguously untenuous.

 

[CaptJCool]

So now that the dust has settled, I would assume that the following would happen :-

Baa-naby Joyce would realise that voting on legislation and being the Deputy PM whilst his right to even be in parliament is under a long white cloud is .... UNCONSCIONABLE. That was my mistake - he has no conscience......

In a land far far away called New England a child was born.

As he grew up he fell down the rabbit hole and all things New became Australia.

"I love love polling day I go for the Sausage sizzle" says Barnaby.

Looks like we're run "bye the village idiot", said Alice

Hes such a wonder.....retorted the Cheshire Cat. He's such a wonder, he wonders if They'll ever notice that Hes from New Zealand. After all all New Zealand New England same difference its all Australia to me.

Is that because they don't have sausage sizzles ? Said Alice

The Cheshire cat just laughed. It's the High court of public opinion, silly. Here it comes!.

Tweedledee and tweedledum

Oh said Alice, that's just sooo dumb. ....but from where I'm from we love our democracy.

Of course the queen of the High Court was having none of that.

Off with his head they said.... how else can we get another Election Day sausage sizzle

So once again tweedledum and tweedledee are off to vote - are conscientious in their consistency in charging to the polling booth but yet find when they get there, their conscience has no consciousness

There, there my dear girl said the Cheshire Cat...

No wonder, Alice mused; where are their morals?

Uproarious laughter. Morale ?

seriously Alice said the Mad Hatter p, eat and drink and have some fun. it really is about democracy, the democracy of the party, the party Alice, its all about the party ......

The moral of this Alice in wonderland inspired mercury-stimulated mad party humour is just right
It's all about the silly sausage sizzle... Malcolm....anyone can Turn bull into dust.

Why was the Mad Hatter mad

 

[Hvr]

Nice to see the letter of the law prevail. Now it's time to change the law itself.

I don't agree that on this matter the Constitution needs changing. The people who run for Parliament want to run our lives, society etc. Surely we only want Australian citizens without allegiance to a foreign power to have this privilege?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't agree that on this matter the Constitution needs changing. The people who run for Parliament want to run our lives, society etc. Surely we only want Australian citizens without allegiance to a foreign power to have this privilege?

It does seem rather bizarre to have this matter referred to a committee for a potential change. The PM's argument is that any Australian should be free to run for parliament... but the thing is... they can already. They just need to renounce any other citizenship. Not hard. I'm not sure we need to have a referendum on this issue. Waste of money.

 

[OATEK]

It does seem rather bizarre to have this matter referred to a committee for a potential change. The PM's argument is that any Australian should be free to run for parliament... but the thing is... they can already. They just need to renounce any other citizenship. Not hard. I'm not sure we need to have a referendum on this issue. Waste of money.

I am not sure every country allows you to just renounce - remember Greece and conscription under the Generals. There is a need for an agreed form to make this renouncement should the other country not play ball, as renouncing may not necessarily remove your rights in a legal sense.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I am not sure every country allows you to just renounce - remember Greece and conscription under the Generals. There is a need for an agreed form to make this renouncement should the other country not play ball, as renouncing may not necessarily remove your rights in a legal sense.

Potentially - but doesn't that also create a problem? Let's say a Greek national who attempts to renounce citizenship but Greece doesn't play ball. Once elected they need to go back to Greece (let's say for a family emergency) and get forced into service. What does that do for their seat in the Australian parliament? By-election? That's not sustainable, either for the MP (not able to go home for a family emergency), or the people they represent.

Apparently the Declaration of Human rights allows people to renounce citizenship and choose another. I guess one avenue would be to only allow election if you have renounced your citizenship from a country that has subscribed to the principles of that declaration.

 

[james4321]

But we will have to have a referendum surely, because that’s the way we run things these days - throw more taxpayers money at all the hard stuff, bury it in some long drawn out boring process and in the meanwhile kid ourselves that we are running the show! Smile and Wave!

It does seem rather bizarre to have this matter referred to a committee for a potential change. The PM's argument is that any Australian should be free to run for parliament... but the thing is... they can already. They just need to renounce any other citizenship. Not hard. I'm not sure we need to have a referendum on this issue. Waste of money.

 

[serfty]

But we will have to have a referendum surely, because that’s the way we run things these days ...!

Yes to a referendum being required - because that's tbe only way to change the constitution. No other reason.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes to a referendum being required - because that's tbe only way to change the constitution. No other reason.

Given the history of referendums I can't really see a good case for this one passing. If pollies are in favour of it there must be something suspect!!

 

[drron]

Of course you can be a dual citizen and be an Australian politician.You just have to be a member of a State Parliament.It is likely that the Premiers of NSW and QLD could be disqualified if the Federal legislation applied to State Parliaments.
In Victoria you have the situation of a Pollie who has declared allegiance to Bashir Assad but that doesn't rule him out.
As to saying reviewing this article of the Constitution is laughable then why has a Senate committee in 1981,the Constitution Commission in 1988 and a House of Reps committee in 1997 all recommend that section 44 {I} be abolished.It is just that the pollies think it would just be too hard to get a referendum up.
Under NZ law although the child of a NZ father was a NZ citizen by descent that child has to apply to be registered to be an NZ citizen by descent and get a NZ passport.So it is not surprising that some people didn't know they were foreign citizens.In fact Prof Orr from UQ whose area of excellence is electoral law only became aware his children were able to be NZ citizens as their mother was born in NZ on a family holiday.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t recall applying to become a NZ citizen. I do however remember applying for my first NZ passport (in Sydney) in 1977. Once travel for kiwis between NZ and Australia required a valid passport. As I recall I only needed to have it for travel in one direction. The irony of this is that I was also a member of the Australian armed services (Army). And my ID card was all I needed to be allowed to enter (return to) Australia.

Of course you can be a dual citizen and be an Australian politician.You just have to be a member of a State Parliament.It is likely that the Premiers of NSW and QLD could be disqualified if the Federal legislation applied to State Parliaments.
In Victoria you have the situation of a Pollie who has declared allegiance to Bashir Assad but that doesn't rule him out.
As to saying reviewing this article of the Constitution is laughable then why has a Senate committee in 1981,the Constitution Commission in 1988 and a House of Reps committee in 1997 all recommend that section 44 {I} be abolished.It is just that the pollies think it would just be too hard to get a referendum up.
Under NZ law although the child of a NZ father was a NZ citizen by descent that child has to apply to be registered to be an NZ citizen by descent and get a NZ passport.So it is not surprising that some people didn't know they were foreign citizens.In fact Prof Orr from UQ whose area of excellence is electoral law only became aware his children were able to be NZ citizens as their mother was born in NZ on a family holiday.

 

[Hvr]

And the saga continues:

Senate President reignites citizenship debacle, says father may be British
Liberal senator Stephen Parry has told the Government he may be a dual citizen, saying he has asked British authorities to examine his history.

Senator Parry is Tasmanian-born but his father migrated from Britain as a child.

Seriously? He didn't think to say anything while the previous furor was ongoing? About time for an audit of all Members and Senators to clear this up once and for all. Then have a process whereby potential politicians get clearance before submitting their application to stand.

It can be paid for by the applicant much like current job seekers pay to prove their identity and lack of criminal record.

 

[TheRealTMA]

And the saga continues:




Seriously? He didn't think to say anything while the previous furor was ongoing? About time for an audit of all Members and Senators to clear this up once and for all. Then have a process whereby potential politicians get clearance before submitting their application to stand.

It can be paid for by the applicant much like current job seekers pay to prove their identity and lack of criminal record.

He was using the duck and hide Turnbull defence. A bit like believing in the Sicilian defence against Bobby Fisher.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

but wait there's more.....Josh Frydenberg now being accused of possible dual citizenship with Hungary which is drawing a long bow as his mother who was seven when she arrived in Australia was stateless as Jewish people were stripped of nationality and classed as aliens back then.

 

[james4321]

but wait there's more.....Josh Frydenberg now being accused of possible dual citizenship with Hungary which is drawing a long bow as his mother who was seven when she arrived in Australia was stateless as Jewish people were stripped of nationality and classed as aliens back then.

But have since had their Hungarian citizenship reinstated including their children so he might have a problem. And spineless Malcolm needs to find a way out of this mess or else he is history.