The totally off-topic thread

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When you work in a dangerous industry, the Union is your friend.

Already many strong rebuttals but I will add mine with a caveat..
I spent my working life in heavy construction and saw no good in union involvement.
My caveat is that Unions SHOULD HAVE A VALUABLE ROLE.. and they do not.

 
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When you work in a dangerous industry, the Union is your friend.

Already many strong rebuttals but I will add mine with a caveat..
I spent my working life in heavy construction and saw no good in union involvement.
My caveat is that Unions SHOULD HAVE A VALUABLE ROLE.. and they do not.


I've observed that when Unions need to have a valuable role then they are invisible.
 
Business Consultants! We've been in the consulting business for mmm - 25 years. Most of our work was Adelaide based until 5 years ago. Now - the work here has dried up. It's petty low paying fee stuff. Constantly cancelled at the last minute. Adelaide is now FIFO for us - work is in Melbourne, Sydney and NZ. Where it pays well. It's why we have leased an apartment in Melbourne when we live in Adelaide.
<snip>

I'm in the same boat, although I chose to live in Tasmania, and then put out the shingle. Only once had a job/client in Tasmania in all that time, but it was a pretty good one :)
 
I'm in the same boat, although I chose to live in Tasmania, and then put out the shingle. Only once had a job/client in Tasmania in all that time, but it was a pretty good one :)

Yes - I can imagine the same situation. SA used to have a number of thriving companies headquartered in Adelaide. It's all gone east now so the decision makers have vacated the building.

We are still 'based' in SA but have removed reference to SA in our emails. (We *might* put a reference to the Crows if they win the AFL GF. :D I'm betting our dysfunctional govt will be sucking in the kudos publicity if they do so maybe I'm prepared to forgo the win.)
 
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I suspect you really have never done a hard days labour in your life and never will. When you work in a dangerous industry, the Union is your friend.

I know plenty of individuals whose life's and families had been saved due to union intervention and help.

Their effectiveness has been nullified by subsequent governments which I suspect you're blase about.

P.s Do you like correcting my grammar and altering my quotes? Does that satisfy the empty place in your heart?

Depends on what you mean by a "hard days labour". If you mean by working in a dangerous industry where physical health and safety is a big, big issue, then fair enough - you're right. All the jobs I've had so far are pretty much white collar. To us, a "hard days work" means you solved some really difficult problems and the biggest risk is not death but litigation. I suspect, as you say, I'll not likely be in a job that will experience "danger" as you put it.

But if you mean I'm in some molly-coddled position where I don't lift a finger and expect the world to rotate around me while getting paid for it, then you're sorely mistaken.

I'm glad that unions have come through for your friends and family. In fact, to a greater degree since it seems unions are necessary in lines of work where people are at risk of significant cripple or death, which quite frankly means whatever industries those are seem to have a rather flippant attitude to safety and well-being, and should be called out on that, not just in a union arena, but on a larger scale, e.g. reported to governments and law enforcement agencies.

Unions are supposed to help in my line of work (as I've been told) mainly if we get sued. But having sat in a (previous, not current) union meeting, the attitude of the leadership is very concerning. I've also had stories of colleagues and friends who have obtained no help from unions (especially in the case of whistleblowing), and in some cases they themselves have uncovered underhanded dealings within the union but are powerless to report or expose that behaviour for fear of reprisal, bullying or physical threat.

Finally, no one should be bullied into joining the union, even where the union and hence union membership is known to be plentifully useful. I'm lucky that at my workplace that no one is bullied nor made to feel inferior if they choose not to join the union. I remember when VSU was introduced, there were several stories (never mainstream, of course - they were usually squashed by the perpetrators) on campus of verbal and physical threats against some people who wanted to opt out of student union membership. One such victim was a friend of mine who resolved to move to another city and transfer to another university than remain and risk her life and professional future.

P.s Do you like correcting my grammar and altering my quotes? Does that satisfy the empty place in your heart?

Seriously? One word, it didn't change the intent of your quote and I didn't even go to town against you on it, and you're going to get sensitive about it?

As for altering your quotes, I can't see where I've misquoted or changed your tack........
 
It seems to me that everyone bagging unions has forgotten that we have unions to thank for sick leave, holiday pay, long service leave and the 38-hr week.
Not to mention forcing life-saving changes to mining and construction and other dangerous industries.

For myself, my union is pretty useless at pursuing wage rises, BUT they have also helped me once or twice with legal issues that have arisen so I would not be without my membership. Colleagues have also been helped a great deal when pursuing changes to their working conditions when management is resistant. We also get very cheap professional indemnity insurance through them, so it is still worthwhile for me.
 
Returned hire car and having breakfast while waiting for check in.

Needed a chain saw to get through the toasted sour dough bread. And that's my second attempt. First was with plastic knife and fork, had to ask for metal cutlery.

Despite the hard toast, it was good breakie.

The sun is shining in Hobart today.
 
I suspect you really have never done a hard days labour in your life and never will. When you work in a dangerous industry, the Union is your friend.

I know plenty of individuals whose life's and families had been saved due to union intervention and help.

Their effectiveness has been nullified by subsequent governments which I suspect you're blase about.

P.s Do you like correcting my grammar and altering my quotes? Does that satisfy the empty place in your heart?
An unnecessarily aggressive post IMHO.

My first intro to unions was working in a paper mill as a school kid. It was join the AWU now or get off the job! Never held that against them but also I never forgot.

I later worked in the oil industry for nearly 30 years and saw the unions in involved in creating and solving some major issues. About 50% of the time they were wonderful for the workers but about 50% of the time they caused the issues.

i.e. I believe they have a great place but they are just as often not the saviours that you portray.
 
It seems to me that everyone bagging unions has forgotten that we have unions to thank for sick leave, holiday pay, long service leave and the 38-hr week.
Not to mention forcing life-saving changes to mining and construction and other dangerous industries.

For myself, my union is pretty useless at pursuing wage rises, BUT they have also helped me once or twice with legal issues that have arisen so I would not be without my membership. Colleagues have also been helped a great deal when pursuing changes to their working conditions when management is resistant. We also get very cheap professional indemnity insurance through them, so it is still worthwhile for me.

Ah yes... the appeal to "I did this, so I'm perfect and you have no right to disrespect me".

I'll confess - I wasn't old enough to know when unions won all of those things, of which I am grateful for. It would be interesting to think whether the tyrannical conditions of work predating unions would have persisted today had they not intervened.

Having worked with the mining industry, I'm glad unions helped drive those changes, though one really had to wonder how much longer the mining industry could have gone on operating with the thought that killing under 10 people per year would be considered socially acceptable.

We can thank unions for what they have done, but that doesn't mean that they are infallible and are not worthy of any scrutiny, because while you have mentioned another case of where unions have helped you, others have shown how they have not and/or have done the direct opposite. And when unions start to hurt workers, that's worse than the corporation doing the hurt.

Unions should have a place today, that should be a complement and assist those who are working for a corporation. They should not exist to undermine their membership, and they shouldn't just exist to be 100% antagonistic towards corporations.


Also, work this one out: how do we live in a country where we would think that unions have a place, but are instantly outraged when they propose strikes?
 
...............
Needed a chain saw to get through the toasted sour dough bread. And that's my second attempt. First was with plastic knife and fork, had to ask for metal cutlery........
The sun is shining in Hobart today.


I do not understand the love of "sour dough" anything. It is always hard and chewy IMO. I wont eat it.
 
Five blondes walk into airside and have a discussion on if they are flying Qantas or Virgin but none have a clue and none check their boarding passes.

I feel like asking, "Are you sure you shouldn't be at the other airport", and just see what happens.
 
Five blondes walk into airside and have a discussion on if they are flying Qantas or Virgin but none have a clue and none check their boarding passes. I feel like asking, "Are you sure you shouldn't be at the other airport", and just see what happens.

Nasty..... but I like it. :D
 
I really have to say what does hard physical labour have to do with the right of being able to have an opinion on unions?
Teachers are often criticised for their working hours and holidays but to me they have a thankless job nowadays with someone looking over their shoulder all the time and everyone being an expert.
Although in Medicine hard physical labour is extremely unusual the hours and stress take their toll.There is a high rate of suicides of younger doctors which is a tragedy.

The problem with Unions today is the changes in Unions and their leaders.Back when I was young fellow unions were smaller and represented industries.Their leaders often had experience in those industries.They were generally respected by workers.This was the time of most of the major reforms won by the unions.
Now the Unions are an industry in their own right.Most leaders went to University,were active politically and then went straight to an union job with an eye on a parliamentary seat.Often they lack the respect of the workers.
 
We came to the conclusion that some parents of school aged children thought their child was gifted. We kept away from them and it proved to be a very good idea.
 
Friends of mine adopted 2 Thai orphan girls. The first was quite mentally disabled, the 2nd was normal, but by comparison seemed gifted. The parents tried to get her into a school for gifted kids. She didn't get in luckily as it would have made her life a misery. Instead she went to a local government school and became a successful well rounded young woman with a satisfying job.

We came to the conclusion that some parents of school aged children thought their child was gifted. We kept away from them and it proved to be a very good idea.
 
I'll confess - I wasn't old enough to know when unions won all of those things, of which I am grateful for. It would be interesting to think whether the tyrannical conditions of work predating unions would have persisted today had they not intervened.

it's a good question to which to don't really know the answer... but I suspect these changes would not have come around. I don't know the skinny on the union situation in America... but there's plenty of workers there on low wages, long hours, no job security ('you're fired'), and leave entitlements which are a fraction of ours. If you left these things to 'the market' like they appear to do in the USA, it would be a very different place to work.

How about developing nations... plenty where children still work, and adults work in dangerous jobs with little or no safety protections, for long hours and poor wages. Yes there are other drivers going on there, but one wonders if unions would have brought about some of the protections we enjoy in other nations?
 
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