What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE?

[Sprucegoose]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

All these business will either change hands or do their time in the sinbin before they bounce back. It was very poorly handled by the current owners of Dreamworld

 

[anat0l]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

Effect on bookings to OOL or BNE?

I'm going to say, no.

As if the majority of people who fly here just go to these theme parks. Get real.

Even if there is an effect, it would not be marked and/or very difficult to attribute this tragedy as the root cause.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

While this is too early to link to decreased flight bookings given that these are typically booked in advance by families, another operator is suggesting that attendances have decreased at other Gold Coast theme parks:

Nocookies | The Australian

 

[moa999]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

I agree the bonus at the AGM which could have easily been deferred and the attempt to re-open quickly was in poor taste.

That said I think the standard Dreamworld has been held to is a bit much...
While there are a helluva lot of safety precautions, the theme parks have risk waivers in their T&C because there is an inherent risk.

Certainly don't see other businesses (including airlines/airports) or even construction sites etc being shut down for weeks on end for a police investigation, let alone to assauge the public.

That said it does seem that the holes have aligned in this instant - a decision about 10yrs ago to remove 2 in 3 slats and some water pump issues.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

Hmmm... a risk waiver. I certainly don't agree to waive my rights in the event a ride turns out to be inherently unsafe, or if there is negligence. I'm not saying that's the case here (I don't know the facts), but in general, for any theme park, I assume rides have been tested to their limits and are totally safe on that basis. sure I waive my rights if I have a heart attack because the ride is scary (or whatever). but not otherwise.

 

[fairbasa]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

Nothing can be totally safe. Everything has an inherent risk. I think the average member of the public would be horrified if they saw a FMECA for something they use without thought like an amusement ride or aircraft. We get in our cars each day knowing there's a possibility the brakes could fail and we die in a crash.

In this case the slices of cheese have lined up a certain way for the first time since opening in 1986. It's horrible, but these things happen unfortunately despite everyone's best efforts. I reluctantly look forward to reading the investigation report, if the rumors are true and the hazard controls were as primitive as they are being made out, there will be consequences for Dreamworld.

Not saying it's right, but it's amazing the contrast between the aftermath of this incident and the aftermath of one of the numerous fatalities at say the Disney parks. E.g. after the Big Thunder fatality the park didn't close, just that particular ride for a number of months. Everything carries on BAU, amazing Dreamworld is still closed. They must be claiming on insurance?

 

[mannej]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

Hmmm... a risk waiver. I certainly don't agree to waive my rights in the event a ride turns out to be inherently unsafe, or if there is negligence. I'm not saying that's the case here (I don't know the facts), but in general, for any theme park, I assume rides have been tested to their limits and are totally safe on that basis. sure I waive my rights if I have a heart attack because the ride is scary (or whatever). but not otherwise.

By underlining the word totally, I have a feeling that you don't fully understand risk in this context.

Nothing by definition will ever by totally safe, it's the measures in place that manage the risk.

 

[fairbasa]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

That said it does seem that the holes have aligned in this instant - a decision about 10yrs ago to remove 2 in 3 slats and some water pump issues.

Although we're talking about effects rather than the causes, it did have me wondering what would prompt such a decision and the engineering risk assessment that was carried out when this was done. I was on this ride about a month before the incident and distinctly remember looking at the conveyor and thinking how far apart the slats were, compared to the Disney one I went on in Feb.

Left is DW, right Disney.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

By underlining the word totally, I have a feeling that you don't fully understand risk in this context.

Nothing by definition will ever by totally safe, it's the measures in place that manage the risk.

I understand the risk. As a consumer I would assume that the ride - properly constructed, properly maintained, only allowing the correct passengers (height and wight) - will have been tested to the limits and would be totally safe. If a human comes along and forgets to screw in a bolt, or modifies the ride, or does something else - that's a different matter. And I ain't waiving my rights for the human error.

This is not mountaineering where a piece of rock might give way. Or diving in the sea where a shark might come and bite me. This is a ride that should have been properly built and properly maintained.

In the context of any 'waiver' I would expect the ride to be totally safe. Not a 99% chance it is safe. I might be waiving an act of God or an injury arising out of my personal health.

 

[mannej]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

I understand the risk. As a consumer I would assume that the ride - properly constructed, properly maintained, only allowing the correct passengers (height and wight) - will have been tested to the limits and would be totally safe. If a human comes along and forgets to screw in a bolt, or modifies the ride, or does something else - that's a different matter. And I ain't waiving my rights for the human error.

This is not mountaineering where a piece of rock might give way. Or diving in the sea where a shark might come and bite me. This is a ride that should have been properly built and properly maintained.

In the context of any 'waiver' I would expect the ride to be totally safe. Not a 99% chance it is safe. I might be waiving an act of God or an injury arising out of my personal health.

Sorry but your post contradicts itself.

If you understand risk, you'd understand that there are mechanisms in place to manage it. You can never completely eliminate the risk unless you shut down the ride full stop.

The waiver is a different argument as to whether or not it is enforceable.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

As a consumer I would assume that the ride - properly constructed, properly maintained, only allowing the correct passengers (height and wight) - will have been tested to the limits and would be totally safe.

Many consumers may assume the same thing ... but that is the problem with assumptions. They're not always correct. I've never yet seen a risk matrix where there is a likelihood of "impossible" or "zero". The lowest is usually "rare" and to be honest, 4 tragic deaths out of millions of pax over 30 years seems to me to be aptly described as rare. Taking a risk assessment a step further, a consequence that may include multiple deaths but a rare likelihood of occurrence, still leaves the residual risk ranking as "high" (on a 3 level and 4 level risk ranking, although the 4 level is slightly lower than the 3).

 

[fairbasa]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

Taking a risk assessment a step further, a consequence that may include multiple deaths but a rare likelihood of occurrence, still leaves the residual risk ranking as "high".

Exactly. I wonder what the risk assessment rated the consequence as when the slats were removed? I would have thought it upped it from a Major to Catastrophic.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

Exactly. I wonder what the risk assessment rated the consequence as when the slats were removed? I would have thought it upped it from a Major to Catastrophic.

Perhaps more to the point might be what type of risk assessment was done. Most of us would automatically consider health and safety being the most important, but it's certainly not the only assessment that industry does. There is also environment (greenies love that one), public perception (shareholders love that one), and it would be unwise to assume the other two take a backseat in decision making processes, those being cost and production (management love those two).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

Sorry but your post contradicts itself.

If you understand risk, you'd understand that there are mechanisms in place to manage it. You can never completely eliminate the risk unless you shut down the ride full stop.

The waiver is a different argument as to whether or not it is enforceable.

I'm talking about the context of a waiver. I get on the ride assuming it is has been properly built and that safe arrival at the other end is not in any way left to chance.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: What effect, if any will the Dreamworld loss of life have on bookings to OOL/ BNE

I'm talking about the context of a waiver. I get on the ride assuming it is has been properly built and that safe arrival at the other end is in any way left to chance.

They're inter-related but different. Waivers would certainly feature as an administrative control measure for both the production/revenue as well as cost sub categories of the risk assessment, however that has no impact on the risk ranking for health and safety, which even with a properly built and maintained machine would still carry a residual risk ranking of high. As said previously by mannej, the effect of a waiver's effectiveness as a control measure could only be determined by the courts and it may or may not hold as much weight as the company may have hoped.