Flights between Sydney and LA getting slower?

[Jay Cee]

The wind probably has something to do with it

Maybe, but you have got to remember it's up-hill going to LA

 

[Milboo]

The schedule is door to door. 20 minutes is allowed for taxiing.

Today's flight plans are all 1:10 (plus or minus 2 minutes), for the actual flight time, Sydney-Melbourne.



Years ago (when Ansett existed), the airlines would never print a time than was longer than the opposition. Apparently there was noticeable gain to being the claimed 'faster'. The problem was that both airlines were printing utter rubbish. When the QF 767s appeared on what had been the TAA timesheet, we were stunned to find that it was simply impossible to fly the scheduled times...even though they'd been worked out for slower aircraft. It took some years of complaining before sense started to appear, and the times were converted to what was actually achieved.

Could airlines call it differently re flight time?

I ask as I flew 12 sectors last month between MEL and SYD and for the most part, the flight deck announced (before take off) a flight time between 55mins and an hour. Noticeably so as when I flew same sectors last week I remembering inwardly groaning when they announced 1.10 and 1.15 flights times.

 

[AviatorInsight]

I am fairly certain that it used to be more like ~11 hours one way and ~13 the other on Qantas or United's 747s between Sydney and LA. I just got off a 15 hour flight from LA on a VA 777 and I never remember the flights being that long before.

So my questions are:

• Are my memories on the timings correct?
• Is the 777 slower than the 747? (Would make sense 2 engines instead of 4)
• Is VA going slower to be more fuel efficient or something?
• How does the A380 compare here?

I was actually operating that flight that you were on! It was an unusually long flight time (14hrs 50min on the flight plan). We had everything going against us that night before we even boarded the plane. There was a large amount of freight that needed to be loaded, as a result we had a flight plan cost index of 0. This puts us around the .83 mark for the entire trip. Compounded with an average headwind of 32kts along 6500nm and you can quickly see the time blowing out.

We actually saw QF12, DL40 and UA 839 all depart before us (refuelling was also very slow that night). We did make a decision though to speed up a bit to try and get back onto schedule as much as possible. We also made a decision to stay out of the strong winds approaching Australia (up to 130kts only a couple of thousand feet above), which didn't really cost us that much fuel by staying lower, and as a result we actually made contact with BN Centre before any one else (who were cruising higher).

Just as well the coffee held up! Bring on LAX-MEL next year!

 

[jb747]

Could airlines call it differently re flight time?

I ask as I flew 12 sectors last month between MEL and SYD and for the most part, the flight deck announced (before take off) a flight time between 55mins and an hour. Noticeably so as when I flew same sectors last week I remembering inwardly groaning when they announced 1.10 and 1.15 flights times.

The flight plans show us the actual flight time, and that's what we use in the announcements. Melbourne to Sydney is often affected by wind, with strong tail winds giving short flight times. The shortest I can recall was 47 minutes. If you fly that route a bit, not only will you notice that it's generally faster heading north, but you may also see that the aircraft heading south are often appreciably lower, which is an attempt to get out of the worst of the winds.

Having said that though, looking at around 300 (in each direction) of those flights, Melbourne to Sydney averaged out at only 3 minutes faster.

 

[serfty]

15 hours is the normal time frame for Qantas A380 LAX to SYD.

Back in 1998 it was 14:35 for a 744 ...

 

[serfty]

Some others for reference:





(Taken from a "Qantas Worldwide Timetable", March 1998)

 

[Quickstatus]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the real reason: Climate Change!!!

 

[andyhui01]

The schedule is door to door. 20 minutes is allowed for taxiing.

Today's flight plans are all 1:10 (plus or minus 2 minutes), for the actual flight time, Sydney-Melbourne.

On VA, I've never heard 1hr10min during the Captains announcements, longest I've heard was 1hr6min and shortest would be about 58mins iirc. I'm assuming the time in the captains announcements is what he sees in the FMS is based on the actual conditions, runway used and departure route?

 

[jb747]

On VA, I've never heard 1hr10min during the Captains announcements, longest I've heard was 1hr6min and shortest would be about 58mins iirc. I'm assuming the time in the captains announcements is what he sees in the FMS is based on the actual conditions, runway used and departure route?

As I said above, the flight time given in the pre-flight announcements is simply the flight time taken from the flight plan. Airborne, especially towards the end of the flight, it will be the FMS time, plus about 5 minutes for taxi. FMS ETAs are not accurate on the ground.

 

[jb747]

Delving further into the log book. I don't have enough flights on the Melbourne/LA route prior to the A380 to be significant.

Sydney-LA
Prior to 2004, average flight time 819 minutes
After 2004, 744, 805 minutes
A380, 817 minutes

LA-Sydney
Prior to 2004, 868 minutes
After 2004, 744, 880 minutes
A380, 901 minutes.

I'd expect at least 10 minutes, and possibly more, of the A380 differential on the return journey, is the time lost taxiing to 25L. The smaller aircraft are able to use 25R.

 

[juddles]

Maybe as economy classes get worse the flights seem longer. It is strange because as we get older, time usually seems to pass more quickly. On familiar journeys visual cues we get from landmarks help make trips seem faster. But in the air we don't really get these. Wonder if there is anything in that.

I have no idea how long my longest SYD-LAX was in hours, but it was in Y on a United 747. It seemed endless. Time definitely passes more quickly up the front.

Way back (in the mid eighties??)) I did the SYD-LAX trip on a Panam 747SP - that seemed like an endless flight. Was in Y with a broken seat that would not recline.

 

[UP4014]

Hove found the answer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

 

[UP4014]

Way back (in the mid eighties??)) I did the SYD-LAX trip on a Panam 747SP - that seemed like an endless flight. Was in Y with a broken seat that would not recline.

Did they still have those funky reds and blues for the interior, and the panio bar upstairs.

The BAM is a bit like those (now dated) interiors. I'm thinking of putting some carpet on the walls to round it off so AFFers of a certain age feel at home. :mrgreen:



Matt

 

[24601]

As far as I can remember flights, at least SYD-SFO and SYD-YVR, used to stop in Holonlulu en route. The same aircraft for both legs. I don't know if that made it seem shorter, but it broke it up and provided a bit of excitement along the way (for me as a child flying UM). I'm pretty sure that at first you could even leave stuff at your seat, pax just had to disembark. Then later you had to take everything off. Then, maybe the last time I remember, you had to go through US immigration when you got off, even though it was just transit.

After taking off from HNL a meal called "midnight snack" was served, the tray sometimes decorated with a fresh orchid flower.

It all filled in time.