Thoughts ? VA in its desire to become a business airline forgot economy

[ap_spd]

Well let me say at the start, the topic may spark some debate.

I remember VA from the Virgin Blue days in early 2009. My first flight with VA was HBA - SYD, the in flight live TV was amazing. crew I dont remember but it was a better experience than flying with JQ. It had me hooked on, then I took my flight with QF in 2011, SYD - ADL and was served a muffin as lunch and my thought was what is this. QF grounding happened, JB announced his ambitious plan for transition to full fare airline. I was pleased, that was about the time VA launched partnership with SQ and EY, flying to India meant status credits and I did make it to gold and then quickly to platinum.
Now that I look at the business product (ignore lounge) food seems decent enuff, A330 does have good hard product for business but somewhere in between VA did forget that the people in Y also need to be looked after.

Lemon biscuit, chocolate, cream pastry, muffin are NOT food to offer. I think better not offer.

Well enuff of my rant, would love to hear what senior members think.. Enjoy, the long weekend and doggies win..

 

[MarkD]

There are a lot of other similar threads. General consensus is, yes, VA are a LCC, they are in no way "Full service". The offering is meagre and they would be far better off going back to DJ days when they weren't living in fantasy land thinking they were some awesome full service quality airline.
I for one was solely VA unless they didn't fly where I needed to go. I haven't set foot on a VA domestic flight since May and have nearly achieved QF Gold since then. VA believe I am not worth looking after and believe that a stale biscuit and a 50ml cup of water is a meal, they are joking, QF are far superior and JQ are cheaper, so take your pic as to your preference, either way its a QF group airline who gets the money. I do have a few flights coming up that were booked prior to my decision to avoid them, will be interesting to compare now since I have been flying QF for a bit.

 

[Moopere]

There are a lot of other similar threads. General consensus is, yes, VA are a LCC, they are in no way "Full service". The offering is meagre and they would be far better off going back to DJ days when they weren't living in fantasy land thinking they were some awesome full service quality airline.

I see a bit further on in your post that you've moved allegiances and refer to food as possibly one of the reasons. I can't disagree and join you with the comment 'they are joking'

However, to say this: they are in no way "Full service", is a bit harsh, unless you also believe that QF are not "Full Service" either. On that front, we could possibly agree.

I find the differences between the two majors domestically to be quite superficial and which of the two one prefers essentially boils down to edge case stuff that fits ones personality. To give you an example of what I mean; I actually pretty much stopped flying QF when they introduced the kiosks to PER years ago. Yes, they annoy me that much But we all have our thing. Nevertheless, I still regard QF, like VA, as a 'new age' full service airline - my meaning there being that yep, they're both penny pinching, yet expensive to use and I'd flee them both at the first opportunity should a 'real' full service airline become available domestically. Real full service airlines are, in my view, operations like CX and SQ just to name two.

VA believe I am not worth looking after and believe that a stale biscuit and a 50ml cup of water is a meal, they are joking, QF are far superior and JQ are cheaper, so take your pic as to your preference, either way its a QF group airline who gets the money.

Fair enough. JQ -are- cheaper, but I'd never willing fly them domestically. I have used 3K in Asia though and they proved just fine for inter-asia hopping about. My take is different to yours on QF being far superior though. Along with my hate of kiosks (which VA now has in PER as well ... no differentiator any more, but I use the manned priority check-in anyway), I hate how QF was never able to manage my experience with relation to priority boarding, priority bags, etc. Both base lounges are about as bad as each other domestically. I lament that VA doesn't have a higher tier lounge in PER, but you know, again, its horses for courses.

My view, and my experiences will be strongly coloured by my flying habits, which, for the last couple of years have been PER-SYD, PER-MEL - transcon on the 330's in J upgrades ... so, hard to fault VA there honestly (or QF with its own similar offering). 2 years ago or so I was doing a little bit of north south along the east coast and still vividly remember being remarkably unimpressed with VA (or QF) at the time. I put this down to horrible hard product.

Internationally I have always loved SQ and having them on board with VA has just made me happier.


But, back onto the OT (apologies all).

I still do a tiny bit of east coast city hopping, or bounces through ADL, meaning short flights on the horrible 738's. Honestly, its nothing to get excited about in Y or J and in fact I won't pay or exchange points for J on 738 flights any more.

But is it worse today than before JB? I cant really agree. Back in the virgin blue days I used to fly a bit for work (different company to now) and we road engineers would simply, flatly, refuse to fly virgin unless there was absolutely no other choice. My memory, fading fast now, of the product and service was just horrible and not something I'd subject myself to in the name of business or the working day. When we went BFOD, still in the virgin blue era, I'd pay out of my own pocket, the difference to fly QF.

 

[PLANT]

I have flown only economy on VB, VA and JQ in the last 15 years..... Same product as far as I experienced.
Now mate has flown QF for business in economy and is silver..... Thinking he is not going to get gold and planning to switch his business to Virgin in the aim of getting gold quicker..... Once I have his feedback.... I will post!

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Am now resigned, to the fact that VA as OP surmised/mentioned, they dont care anymore.
5 VA SC earnt on their cheapest fares, on the lowest band of the route they fly.
Buggey that mate.
Only small saving measure/grace is when they price their fares, (when they have a sale), about 80% of QF's fares. Maybe they are only useful when they price their fares below that of QF.
MEL - ADL 13 Mar 17, VA asking $95.
MEL - ADL 13 Mar 17, QF asking $130/$138.

 

[Mattg]

I agree with the OP's comments.

After a series of disappointing flights I've basically stopped flying VA, and will only really use them now if (a) there's no other choice, or (b) I'm using points to fly J. The "catering", which does not at all live up to its marketing hype, is one (but not the only) reason.

I actually used a VA flight to book a Jetstar Price Beat fare yesterday. I see more value in a $94.50 Jetstar fare than the $105 Virgin fare. And that's saying something.

 

[bean]

I recently flew J Melbourne Perth. The crew were sensational, went above and beyond. But for a $2K ticket the food and alcohol was just pathetic. A tough old tortilla and scrambled eggs...really? Absolute vodka or Grants whisky...please...should be at least Chivas or Ciroque minimum. In flight entertainment was pretty ordinary, and what on earth is with there music selection? Not one single popular hits offering.

Flying back in economy it was actually not bad. Sure the seats are small and the meal though looking like jail food was actually quite nice.

I thought gee is it really worth paying an additional $1,700 to stretch my legs out for 3 hours....nope, no its not. So Id almost go against the OP and say the economy offering is quite good and the J still leaves room for improvement.

And don't get me started on J on the 7 threes lol

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Well let me say at the start, the topic may spark some debate.

I remember VA from the Virgin Blue days in early 2009. My first flight with VA was HBA - SYD, the in flight live TV was amazing. crew I dont remember but it was a better experience than flying with JQ. It had me hooked on, then I took my flight with QF in 2011, SYD - ADL and was served a muffin as lunch and my thought was what is this. QF grounding happened, JB announced his ambitious plan for transition to full fare airline. I was pleased, that was about the time VA launched partnership with SQ and EY, flying to India meant status credits and I did make it to gold and then quickly to platinum.
Now that I look at the business product (ignore lounge) food seems decent enuff, A330 does have good hard product for business but somewhere in between VA did forget that the people in Y also need to be looked after.

Lemon biscuit, chocolate, cream pastry, muffin are NOT food to offer. I think better not offer.

Well enuff of my rant, would love to hear what senior members think.. Enjoy, the long weekend and doggies win..

I also agree with what you have stated. Pre 2009 was a different story with DJ. JQ was far better as with JQ, we didn't have to put up with giggling idiots masquerading as cabin crew. The short period between giggling clowns and game change was the best period for DJ. A good product with affordable fares. Trouble is (as I recall) they were making losses year after year.

QF are far superior and JQ are cheaper,

I think this is the crux of it all which VA have missed. Not only that, but there are now quite a few examples being raised here on AFF of QF also being cheaper than VA. I feel you and I are very similar with our flying patterns and both of us (amongst others) are genuinely feeling let down by them. All VA are doing, is allowing JQ to raise prices higher than they should be, yet not advancing themselves to any great degree. I think many, like us, who were reasonably loyal to VA have uttered the words "stuff 'em" and are now flying whoever best suits at the time. I now fly VA, QF and JQ (not in that order) and as Mattg has said, I also value JQ about equal with VA. I know I'm running the risk of poor service recovery with JQ, but as of yet, I haven't experienced that and I'd suggest most, if not all, of my JQ flights have flown on time. Time will tell, but as soon as the QF SG rolls into play, there will be absolutely no desire to fly VA unless their service/prices improve again.

 

[bcworld]

what on earth is with there music selection? Not one single popular hits offering.

LOL...I have considered starting a thread on this...maybe there is one? Talking about the music they have on the Entertain app, it's just a bizarre selection. I'm 39 years old and not averse to listening to triple J, but seriously out of the 24 albums they have the only things I'd heard of were I think 3 x Jimmy Barnes + 1 Faith no More album. Oh and there was a Garbage album with zero well known tracks. The rest...well I can't work out if its just too cool for school or really cheap content. Whatever, they are certainly leaving a whole lot of people with nothing to listen to. Meanwhile the Qantas app seems to have all bases covered.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

LOL...I have considered starting a thread on this...maybe there is one? Talking about the music they have on the Entertain app, it's just a bizarre selection. I'm 39 years old and not averse to listening to triple J, but seriously ...

Hence my investment in a wireless hard drive. BYO in case of cough or faulty equipment!

 

[BAM1748]

I think it simply didn't have a large enough war chest to fund all that was needed in the time needed at the same time the economy was flattening out.

 

[Marty_]

Can anybody list the objective measures on which QF is "far superior" to VA?

I am fascinated by this recurring rhetoric as I cannot see it. I get that the VA snack in economy is poor... But otherwise?

Flying 3-4 times every week I thought I would have encountered all this talk of hopeless staff and so forth, but I just haven't. 95% of them are just fine, if not lovely. Every time something has gone wrong they have been more than professional and accommodating, and as a WP I frequently receive special attention and staff go right out of their way for me.

I fly QF every so often and find it unremarkable. I've not found any real basis in which to claim they are "far superior"... In fact, I've had some "meh" experiences and a couple of hopeless staff on QF flights.

Am interested in being enlightened.

 

[BAM1748]

Can anybody list the objective measures on which QF is "far superior" to VA?

I am fascinated by this recurring rhetoric as I cannot see it. I get that the VA snack in economy is poor... But otherwise?

Number of routes, frequency of flights.

 

[Buzzard]

Even the food offering in J is poor.
Flying VA J BNE - ADL I was served a pie. An ordinary meat pie. My local sells pies for $4.50.
Do VA seriously think that a $4.50 pie is a suitable business class meal? OK, there was some sort of cake too.
I'm not sure what VA would pay for that pie but it's what they should be offering in Y instead of a biscuit IMHO.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Even the food offering in J is poor.
Flying VA J BNE - ADL I was served a pie. An ordinary meat pie. My local sells pies for $4.50.
Do VA seriously think that a $4.50 pie is a suitable business class meal? OK, there was some sort of cake too.
I'm not sure what VA would pay for that pie but it's what they should be offering in Y instead of a biscuit IMHO.

I couldn't agree more !! The J meals are very patchy offerings indeed.

 

[bean]

Even the food offering in J is poor.
Flying VA J BNE - ADL I was served a pie. An ordinary meat pie. My local sells pies for $4.50.
Do VA seriously think that a $4.50 pie is a suitable business class meal? OK, there was some sort of cake too.
I'm not sure what VA would pay for that pie but it's what they should be offering in Y instead of a biscuit IMHO.

And let not forget the alcohol. If Im paying $2k for a ticket compared to $290 economy I think they can spend the extra $15 and get a nice bottle of whiskey for example. Geez a good drinker would only see half the bottle finished on a trip to Perth-so they are going tight on $7 for a $2k airfare....just crazy!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Number of routes, frequency of flights.

A web site that works, more lounges, one world, Aquire points ...

 

[bcworld]

one world

The EY alliance was always good enough for me...until they introduced world record breaking surcharges! Transfer to SQ seems the next best thing.

 

[williamsf1]

This will not a popular comment, but in this day and age people want a champagne experience for $99. Gone of the days of regulated airfares where it would cost over $400 return to Melbourne ( that’s in 1991 prices) and you would get a decent feed. Airlines operate on very low margins and the mass market demands low airfares, low airfares = basic service.

 

[Princess Fiona]

This will not a popular comment, but in this day and age people want a champagne experience for $99. Gone of the days of regulated airfares where it would cost over $400 return to Melbourne ( that’s in 1991 prices) and you would get a decent feed. Airlines operate on very low margins and the mass market demands low airfares, low airfares = basic service.

Except the other major domestic carrier offers significantly more in onboard F&B than what VA does for more or less the same flight cost