CX - Forced Downgrade J to PE

[cosi]

Interesting comments.

Just to confirm, it was personal travel paid by the individual.

She was happy with the compensation but disappointed she was not asked and instead just told.

Hard to build status credits when she only travels once a year.

 

[JohnPhelan]

I think the amount is pretty good, but I wouldn't have accepted it. I expect to get the class of service for which I paid. I would happily wait for the next flight to get what I paid for, unless there was some extraordinarily rare reason for me absolutely needing to be back in Australia on the set date.

But in that circumstance, my first response would be to say "no, offload someone else". (I've been in that situation, done it, and won. Mind you, I was also a WP, which made the difference.) Second choice would be to demand that they fly me on another carrier in my ticketed class.

P.S. The pax had a BP for the sector in question, so they had given her a seat. It sounds like, because her connection was running late, they were expecting that the original flight would depart without the connecting pax, and perhaps put waitlisted pax into the seats instead of those who already had BPs. Not a great response.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think the amount is pretty good, but I wouldn't have accepted it. I expect to get the class of service for which I paid. I would happily wait for the next flight to get what I paid for, unless there was some extraordinarily rare reason for me absolutely needing to be back in Australia on the set date.

But in that circumstance, my first response would be to say "no, offload someone else". (I've been in that situation, done it, and won. Mind you, I was also a WP, which made the difference.) Second choice would be to demand that they fly me on another carrier in my ticketed class.

P.S. The pax had a BP for the sector in question, so they had given her a seat. It sounds like, because her connection was running late, they were expecting that the original flight would depart without the connecting pax, and perhaps put waitlisted pax into the seats instead of those who already had BPs. Not a great response.

I wouldn't be as brave as you! For a downgrade to PEY on a short day flight to get half my airfare back I'd be pretty stoked.

$371 an hour ($550+ pre tax!) for sitting on my butt, in comfort, watching a box set on CX Studio seems like a good deal

If it was a downgrade from business to economy it might be a different story!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

seems like a good deal.... just wondering if work paid for the original J ticket, is the "$ compensation" to me, or to the employer ?

I think this is an interesting question. While not applicable to the OP, I think if someone was travelling on a work ticket, it could well be a compensation due to the employer, not the employee.

But for the employer paying the ticket, the employee would not have gained this windfall. But for the employee travelling on work time, the employee would not have gained this windfall. Compensation for a delay might be different if that delay occurred outside of work hours.

If it was me I would declare the payment to the company and let them decide what they wanted to do with it.

 

[JohnK]

If it was me I would declare the payment to the company and let them decide what they wanted to do with it.

Really? If someone gave you ~$2,600 in cash you'd give your company the opportunity to squander the money?

That's my next 3 trips to Thailand covered. Company doesn't need to know.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

How was refund handled? Returned via same method of original purchase?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

How was refund handled? Returned via same method of original purchase?

This was a cash compensation given at the airport by CX directly to the passenger. This is standard practice for CX when they downgrade on day of departure (downgrades in advance of airport control are handled differently). This happens most commonly when you might have booked F intra-asia and they have to sub the aircraft. HKG-PVG F->C downgrade for example is something like AUD200 cash IIRC.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Really? If someone gave you ~$2,600 in cash you'd give your company the opportunity to squander the money?

That's my next 3 trips to Thailand covered. Company doesn't need to know.

I guess that's why it's an interesting question. If the company pays, and I'm being paid while flying on company time, the downgrade is not out of my pocket.

Let's imagine for example that this was an Australian politician or public servant travelling on official business. Would you, as a taxpayer accept that the politician/public servant keeps the downgrade compensation? Perhaps that is more clear cut than a private company. But I think for me, I'd let my employer know and see what they decide they want to do.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Oh ok - so if a Company paid for an Employees flt and these circumstances arose it would be like zero chance Company would ever see any funds.

Remind me to post the legendary Victor Smorgon story some time.

 

[PLANT]

Well if you were moving $10k...... The payment in cash would cause an issue..... So can you asks and get a cheque?

 

[Peter D]

If when traveling for work my employer’s policy and/or my entitlement is for a business class ticket but I am downgraded to PE then the logic should be.


A. Airline compensates employer/purchaser of ticket.


B. Employer compensates me for not supplying business class travel.


In reality airline gives me an envelope. Practical effect is that justice has been done with minimum of paper work.

Most decent employers would say keep the cash. Most company accountants wouldn’t want the hassle.

Though politicians and public servants may need to be more formal.

 

[straitman]

Really? If someone gave you ~$2,600 in cash you'd give your company the opportunity to squander the money?

That's my next 3 trips to Thailand covered. Company doesn't need to know.

If when traveling for work my employer’s policy and/or my entitlement is for a business class ticket but I am downgraded to PE then the logic should be.


A. Airline compensates employer/purchaser of ticket.


B. Employer compensates me for not supplying business class travel.


In reality airline gives me an envelope. Practical effect is that justice has been done with minimum of paper work.

Most decent employers would say keep the cash. Most company accountants wouldn’t want the hassle.

Though politicians and public servants may need to be more formal.

The company I worked for requires full receipts incl boarding passes to justify expenditure. If I fronted up with PE boarding passes and receipts for business then I would probably have been explaining all the way to and through the door as they said good bye.

 

[Peter D]

The company I worked for requires full receipts incl boarding passes to justify expenditure. If I fronted up with PE boarding passes and receipts for business then I would probably have been explaining all the way to and through the door as they said good bye.

I would certainly tell them what had happened and I know how my various employers would react. But then I have always worked for companies where the MDs and company accountant are colleagues in the same office.

Agree if you buy the ticket and have to claim/justify the expense certainly need to set it all out. I would still hope they would recognise the down grade in some way.

 

[dajop]

The company I worked for requires full receipts incl boarding passes to justify expenditure. If I fronted up with PE boarding passes and receipts for business then I would probably have been explaining all the way to and through the door as they said good bye.

Luckily I don't need to present BPs, but we can't claim air travel as individual expenses (all must be booked through corporate TA and is charged to a central account, which means that there are various controls in place, and it would ensure if a traveller downgraded to PE at their own initiative or in advance by the airline - and a refund was made, it would go directly to the company). So then it comes to what happens following a same day downgrade with cash compensation from the airline - I'd probably be reluctant to tell the company, because I'm pretty sure that a) the process would be a PITA to if they wanted the money from me and b) the money wouldn't come back to my cost centre

 

[Hvr]

I guess that's why it's an interesting question. If the company pays, and I'm being paid while flying on company time, the downgrade is not out of my pocket.

Let's imagine for example that this was an Australian politician or public servant travelling on official business. Would you, as a taxpayer accept that the politician/public servant keeps the downgrade compensation? Perhaps that is more clear cut than a private company. But I think for me, I'd let my employer know and see what they decide they want to do.

As a former APS employee I can tell you that you must tell your employer regardless of what the cash was for. If it was for the difference in fare between J and PE then it would need to be returned to the employer.

If it was compensation then it would need to be determined who would receive it.

At the very least always advise your employer in writing, e.g. email and ask for a response. Then you're covered and have permanent proof you've at least tried.

Remember your reputation (and employment prospects) is far more important than a small amount of cash.

 

[JohnK]

Let's imagine for example that this was an Australian politician or public servant travelling on official business. Would you, as a taxpayer accept that the politician/public servant keeps the downgrade compensation? Perhaps that is more clear cut than a private company. But I think for me, I'd let my employer know and see what they decide they want to do.

Public service is one thing and so are companies such as mentioned by straitman where they require proof of travel.

I used to travel in my own time not companies time. All the company would care about is the work got done and you came back to work on time. They were too stingy to pay for anything more than economy. I/we had to fight to get time in lieu for working Anzac Day in Thailand and travelling back on Good Friday.

Now let's say I was offloaded from the Good Friday flight and airline put me up for the night and also gave me $500 compensation and I arrived back Sunday morning. There'd be buckleys chance I would say anything. I haven't taken a bribe. I can sleep easily knowing that money will go to good use.

 

[serfty]

If on company paid travel - I would be booked in business class for a reason - in which case the downgrade would be unacceptible - game on.

If travelling on own purse I would take thw cash.

 

[get me outta here]

Also, if an employer had paid for the flight, and it did come to light that one had been paid cash to downgrade, whether self induced or not, it could be a serious dent to one's integrity and reputation, and call into question one's overall judgment. As others have pointed out, there are some instances where it would not be tolerated at all

It is important to work out which category one's windfall falls into. Luckily, there is quite a time to mull that over on the way home whilst clutching the cash.

As for the OP on a self funded tkt, it does seem like a shortish flight for a 50% refund is a reasonable outcome.

This is basically an ethics question I suspect. It could be gotten away with because how would the employer know? But, would that be unethical, would the person in receipt of the cash be, or feel compromised?

I think the answer is clear. The outfit paying the fare owns the refund.

 

[serfty]

...

As for the OP on a self funded tkt, it does seem like a shortish flight for a 50% refund is a reasonable outcome.

Fully agree - shame more local carriers can't be proactive like that.

 

[get me outta here]

Yes, I agree generous in a way, but not handled at all respectfully as your Japanese friend now feels - no sympathetic explanation for a minute or two. I can imagine standing there in front of everyone and opening the envelope just to see what it actually was, counting the cash and feeling pretty grubby trying to work out what the hell was going on and what you should do about it on the spot, especially as an inexperienced traveller.

Thanks for the heads up for more experienced travellers

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She was happy with the compensation but disappointed she was not asked and instead just told.
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