Australian airport security rethink for ‘low-risk’ passengers

[harvyk]

Wouldn't that be very difficult to implement at Aussie airports, where there is a common screening checkpoint for all international flights? IIRC, in HK there is security screening at the gate, which makes it easy to apply different rules to different flights.

Unless HKG has changed in the last year or so, there is still common security screening for all gates just after immi, there is then special LAG screening at the AU gates. But from memory it was nothing special, just a quick glance in all bags on boarding. They already do that here for US flights from SYD gates 8 and 9.

 

[JohnK]

Wouldn't that be very difficult to implement at Aussie airports, where there is a common screening checkpoint for all international flights? IIRC, in HK there is security screening at the gate, which makes it easy to apply different rules to different flights.

No security screening at the gate in HKG. They do though check bags for duty free and other LAGs on flights to Australia and the USA. Same in BKK.

SIN has security screening at each gate.

 

[Jack_OC]

Unless HKG has changed in the last year or so, there is still common security screening for all gates just after immi, there is then special LAG screening at the AU gates. But from memory it was nothing special, just a quick glance in all bags on boarding. They already do that here for US flights from SYD gates 8 and 9.

I haven't been in HKG in years, so obviously I just wasn't recalling correctly!

However, are you sure the LAG restrictions don't apply to all flights from HKG? This link suggests they do: http://www.cad.gov.hk/english/NSM.html

That link also refers to ICAO guidelines on the issue - which I assume Australia and most other developed countries also follow. I'm still perplexed about the fact that they did not apply the same guidelines to domestic flights, but anyway.

 

[JohnK]

However, are you sure the LAG restrictions don't apply to all flights from HKG? This link suggests they do: Civil Aviation Department - New Security Measures for Cabin Baggage at HKIA

No they don't. I take some water from lounge when I head off to BKK. No screening of hand luggage.

 

[Jack_OC]

No they don't. I take some water from lounge when I head off to BKK. No screening of hand luggage.

But the lounge is airside, no? The LAG restrictions don't apply to liquids obtained airside. For example, I took a 1 litre bottle of water onto a flight out of London yesterday, which was fine as I purchased the water after security. I would not have been allowed to take the same bottle through security though.

 

[drron]

Since when has anything the Australian Government done made sense, or was logical in any way? Then they would have done the same as Hong Kong and only had the limits for flights to those destinations.

We have had LAGs confiscated at HKG when transiting with onward flight to BKK,coming from NRT.

 

[JohnK]

But the lounge is airside, no? The LAG restrictions don't apply to liquids obtained airside. For example, I took a 1 litre bottle of water onto a flight out of London yesterday, which was fine as I purchased the water after security. I would not have been allowed to take the same bottle through security though.

Lounge is airside but you can't bring that bottle of water to Australia. You can to BKK as no one checks.

Same applies to duty free purchased airside. In BKK they will not sell you duty free if your destination is Australia.

 

[juddles]

1.- I dislike the LAG rules because, IMHO, the negative impact that they cause on normal people´s lives far outweighs the threat posed. Sort of a ¨win¨ for terrorists and dickheads in general.

2.- I do not mind heavy security checks at airports, such as scanners, etc. The ¨attitude¨ of security staff is to be expected - they only take that employment because they need to, being pretty coughpy jobs.

3.- These days I fear the biggest threat to airliners are the pilots, not the terrorists. (compare stats of crashes due to bombs versus pilot error/suicide/etc)

4.- I have always been amazed at the lack of SAM attacks on aircraft. Goes to show the world security forces do an amazing job of restricting/tracking/intercepting these weapons.

Anyway, get rid of the LAG rule.

 

[Jack_OC]

Lounge is airside but you can't bring that bottle of water to Australia. You can to BKK as no one checks.

Same applies to duty free purchased airside. In BKK they will not sell you duty free if your destination is Australia.

Yeah but I think there are two different things here: Australia, for reasons that I don't understand, imposes additional restrictions on incoming flights. Hence the additional checks and restrictions on duty free that you and others have mentioned when flying to Oz from overseas. I think this does show that Australia isn't just bowing to international pressure, contrary to my earlier speculation. However, this does not mean there are no LAG restrictions on flights going elsewhere.

The standard LAG restrictions that apply to all flights in the EU and US prevent pax from bringing liquids >100ml through security, but they do not prevent pax from bringing larger volumes of liquids obtained airside onto the plane. Therefore, your example of being able to take water from an airside lounge in HKG onto a flight does not mean there are no LAG restrictions. You can do exactly the same thing in the EU or US (and even when departing Australia on an international flight), even though standard LAG restrictions are in place.

 

[medhead]

Yeah but I think there are two different things here: Australia, for reasons that I don't understand, imposes additional restrictions on incoming flights. Hence the additional checks and restrictions on duty free that you and others have mentioned when flying to Oz from overseas. I think this does show that Australia isn't just bowing to international pressure, contrary to my earlier speculation. However, this does not mean there are no LAG restrictions on flights going elsewhere.

The standard LAG restrictions that apply to all flights in the EU and US prevent pax from bringing liquids >100ml through security, but they do not prevent pax from bringing larger volumes of liquids obtained airside onto the plane. Therefore, your example of being able to take water from an airside lounge in HKG onto a flight does not mean there are no LAG restrictions. You can do exactly the same thing in the EU or US (and even when departing Australia on an international flight), even though standard LAG restrictions are in place.

What you're missing is that there is an additional check for lags on flights leaving HKG to Australia. This prevents taking water from the lounge onto flights to Australia. That same lag restriction does not apply to flights to other destinations. So those LAG restriction do not exist for other flights.

Also you assumption about ring able to take liquids from the lounge onto flights is highly dependent on the airport involved. Sin and FRA are just two examples where water can't be taken from the lounge into an aircraft.

 

[Jack_OC]

What you're missing is that there is an additional check for lags on flights leaving HKG to Australia. This prevents taking water from the lounge onto flights to Australia. That same lag restriction does not apply to flights to other destinations. So those LAG restriction do not exist for other flights.

Eh no, I don't think I was missing that. As I said (and as quoted in your reply!!):

Australia, for reasons that I don't understand, imposes additional restrictions on incoming flights. Hence the additional checks and restrictions on duty free that you and others have mentioned when flying to Oz from overseas.

Anyway, it was just something I was curious about - it doesn't really bother me either way what LAG restrictions are in place - but I remain to be convinced that airports such as HKG have no LAG restrictions on most flights (which is what has been stated above).

 

[dajop]

Also you assumption about ring able to take liquids from the lounge onto flights is highly dependent on the airport involved. Sin and FRA are just two examples where water can't be taken from the lounge into an aircraft.

But you can take water bottles from lounge onto a flight originating in SIN, just not the water (ie. Needs to be refilled from drinking fountains the gate side of security)!

 

[medhead]

Eh no, I don't think I was missing that. As I said (and as quoted in your reply!!):


Anyway, it was just something I was curious about - it doesn't really bother me either way what LAG restrictions are in place - but I remain to be convinced that airports such as HKG have no LAG restrictions on most flights (which is what has been stated above).

My take was that JohnK was talking about the lag restrictions between lounge and the aircraft for Australian flights. I didn't see the relevance of the general security restrictions to the existence of those extra checks.

But you can take water bottles from lounge onto a flight originating in SIN, just not the water (ie. Needs to be refilled from drinking fountains the gate side of security)!

Of course, I didn't mention water bottles, just the water. But you are entirely correct empty water bottles can be taken through security, possibly everywhere.

 

[Jack_OC]

My take was that JohnK was talking about the lag restrictions between lounge and the aircraft for Australian flights. I didn't see the relevance of the general security restrictions to the existence of those extra checks.
.

JohnK was responding to my comment saying that general LAG restrictions do seem to be in place in HKG.