The demise of the flying kangaroo?

[Ducatiman]

Unfortunately I believe that the tie-up with Emirates was a major mistake for Qantas. I earn about 6000 status points a year, mostly international business, and several of my colleagues are also Platinum or Platinum One. I have found over the last few months that more and more people from the company are requesting Emirates flights rather than Qantas. Previously for business trips to Europe it would have Qantas to London and then BA to somewhere else. Now its fly into Dubai and then an EK flight to wherever in Europe. Recently I flew to Munich and the EK flight with a QF number was $1000 more expensive, I booked the flights as EK. Qantas planes feel old compared to Emirates and there is no comparing the service, Emirates win hands down. Also the Sinagpore flights from Melbourne are on old planes with even older staff! I do this trip nearly every month and SIA are very close to getting all of my companies Singapore flights, they offer better times and better service.

I do fear for the future of Qantas. Perhaps they will just end up a domestic carrier?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Can you please provide any credible verifiable evidence that Qantas (or indeed any other airline) "go on" about their safety record? In what publication or advertisement?

Indirectly they do: Customer Charter | Qantas

Their commitment to safety is their #1 priority. It was also evident during their handling of the volcanic ash issue.

The blurb from this QF video posted on youtube begins with the words 'we are very proud of our safety record'. The video is actually titled 'safety in style': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa6xCUp8bvI

Or this one... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgvw3kN6sAw (also posted by Qantas) - listen to the first few sentences of the video

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Agreed. Too many people here on AFF make statements without any credible verifiable evidence to support.
We must have 25 (or is it 50, 100?) of the worlds best airline managers posting on AFF.

have posted proof

 

[Shan ia]

I flew with Ansett and Qantas in the good days. Ansett had a service ethic, Qantas was all about profit. Until Qantas gets into the real world of SIA, Etihad and Emirates, then they are doomed. I still wonder why Emirates got invloved with Qantas, perhaps they plan on a takeover to move into the Pacific and West Coast of USA, just like SIA planned. The best thing that Qantas could do is sack the Lepricorn and the Board. Recruit a CEO who has some idea of making money and for gods sake buy the 777-300X and not 787 dreamliners. If it aint broke, don't fix it. SIA has the best airline cabin service in the world followed by Etihad/Emirates. Talk to Tim Clark, I think he has an idea. If Air NZ can drag themselves out of a hole Qantas can. They should split Domestic off on its own and run the Intl as a state owned non profit outfit. Bring back the core routes and use A380's and 777-300X. Once QF flyers travel Emirates, they will forget QF. The area that needs some thought is Premium Economy, this must be a growth area done right. The major problem is aircrew cost and Australia's unions. If we are not careful Australia will end up like QF, a second grade carrier..

 

[Dee Thom]

I flew with Ansett and Qantas in the good days. Ansett had a service ethic, Qantas was all about profit. Until Qantas gets into the real world of SIA, Etihad and Emirates, then they are doomed. I still wonder why Emirates got invloved with Qantas, perhaps they plan on a takeover to move into the Pacific and West Coast of USA, just like SIA planned. The best thing that Qantas could do is sack the Lepricorn and the Board. Recruit a CEO who has some idea of making money and for gods sake buy the 777-300X and not 787 dreamliners. If it aint broke, don't fix it. SIA has the best airline cabin service in the world followed by Etihad/Emirates. Talk to Tim Clark, I think he has an idea. If Air NZ can drag themselves out of a hole Qantas can. They should split Domestic off on its own and run the Intl as a state owned non profit outfit. Bring back the core routes and use A380's and 777-300X. Once QF flyers travel Emirates, they will forget QF. The area that needs some thought is Premium Economy, this must be a growth area done right. The major problem is aircrew cost and Australia's unions. If we are not careful Australia will end up like QF, a second grade carrier..

Yes! the Red Roo could be sporting a multi color striped tail in the near future. Emirates would love to have a major domestic carrier in Aus, to control the Asia Pacific areas. Etihad already has VA capacity internally, K1W1 also has this same capacity---Maybe a new Compass Airline is needed, or better still a very new East West Airlines.
In regards to the P.E. seating, QF have always been neglecting this seating, strange how a Company that started Business Class could fall behind so quickly in this area.

Cheers Dee.

 

[dajop]

In regards to the P.E. seating, QF have always been neglecting this seating, strange how a Company that started Business Class could fall behind so quickly in this area.

Have never experienced it, but I thought QF had some of the better PE seats installed on it's A380. I get that some people want to see PE on A330, but will it work commercially? Are people willing to pay a significant premium for PE on the relatively short hops that the A330 does - that are not part of a longer journey (eg. to LHR, like on CX)? BA oftens sells PE SIN-SYD cheaper than SQ sell Y on the same route, I suspect without the SYD-SIN-LHR traffic it wouldn't work at all. QF seemed to struggle also filling PE on the 744's that terminated in SIN from BNE & SYD. Fine to have a good product, but people have to be willing to pay for it.

 

[Onepoppa]

My wife and I switched from flying Qantas in 2010 when Westpac introduced its Singapore Airlines Visa card. Why were we happy to give up Qantas, apart from the fact that redemption flights were much easier to obtain, and cost at least a third less miles than with Qantas? Becuase we found that on a good day, Qantas might be average. This was an airline where the management cared little for passengers, and the flight crew never understood the fine line whih separated informality from flippancy.

On domestic routes, except from the east coast to Perth it matters little whose seat one occupies for up to a couple of hours, so most people are happy to chose on the basis of price. Internationally, what is offered to passengers and particularly FF members? - a diminishing route network on which it gets harder and harder to obtain redemption flights. When SQ, MY, CX, and CZ offer three flights a day out of Melbourne, what has QF to offer? Less and less.

It looks like the first airline to operate 747s outside the US might well be the last, and when they go what will be left?

At least Ansett's demise was quick - Qantas looks like it will be a slow lingering death.

 

[Fynsie]

I just don't understand who Qantas is trying to attract internationally. They just don't fly anywhere anymore. I go round the world J class at least once and sometimes twice a year (well one year, but expect to do it again some time). RTW is not that much more than J return to LAX and almost the same as return to London. That's why I do it. But I want to fly on to Europe or the States from a first stop in Asia, and I can't even book it on the Qantas site, much less use any Qantas metal. SIN to LHR via DXB does not count, as that is just silly. And when it's Cathay and BA for most legs, it's hard to specially select Qantas from Brisbane to Asia, just to support an airline that doesn't do anything else. And their J is not a patch on the latest CX version.

At least I used to get full SCs on the Oneworld carriers. Kept me Gold and even swung into Plat in the double trip year with some other travel. Now I will lose Gold if I only do one big trip in a year and don't have much domestic flying.

They don't want to attract or keep me, at $25,000 to 50,000 plus per year (for 2). So who are their target market? Got me buggered.

 

[harvyk]

Just out of interest Fynsie, for a RTW where else would you want them to fly? It's not like they are going to start up a SIN-LAX service any time soon, and they have the resources of OW to support RTW...

Also technically, from LHR-SYD via the US is not really that much further than LHR-SYD via DXB or SIN. In-fact QF used to offer such as service which it called the southern cross route. So I can sort of understand a RTW being a similar price as just a straight SYD-LHR return...

 

[Fynsie]

From Asia to LHR is the short answer. As they did until recently. I was happy to structure a RTW trip specifically choosing Qantas for 3 of 4 long legs, taking BA across the Atlantic, and having options of 3 Asian cities served from Oz to anchor the second leg to Europe via LHR, depending on where in Asia I spent a few days. They will still have the last leg on an east to west trip by default, but the carrier that takes me on the 12 hour second leg is going to get the first. Agree that they can't go west to east, except direct to USA. So it's really just saying that dumping 3 Asian options for Dubai or nothing has made me dump them, and my post was really: they have rejected me and others with that change (and recent SC downgrade); who did they expect to pick up?

 

[thedrivesman]

I flew with Ansett and Qantas in the good days. Ansett had a service ethic, Qantas was all about profit. Until Qantas gets into the real world of SIA, Etihad and Emirates, ..

i.e. on the whole answerable to Arabs and given huge tax concessions or cheap funding?

 

[Dick Savage]

I'm a career aviation professional who for years averaged around 350.000 annual international miles and who on several occasions flew almost 30,000 First Class miles in a week. Among airports I worked an 80-120 hour week across half the world. I flew my last international Qantas leg on Chrismas Eve in 1983. During that flight, those of the First Class passengers who weren't a couple of ACT bludgers and three PAX-ing Air New Zealand pilots, were dead-heading QF stews, who, for eight hours, talked like militant shop stewards. I'd been fed up with sharing premium space with the help (ACT and QF) on a diminishing number of QF trips -- but that one was the straw. Since then I've been code-share-booked QF on the final, domestic, leg of a number of inbound international trips and on every one of them a QF Earth person with delusions of importance has gone out of her way to seriously inconvenience me in one or another ways. Usually by insisting I check-in an "oversize" cabin bag. That has likely been at my side for a million or more Any-Other-Carrier Miles!

And then there's the psychopathic gang um I mean the airplane plumbers' union. Whose like has not been seen on Earth since Charley Bryan's machinist's union destroyed America's Eastern Airlines[FONT=arial, sans-serif]. [/FONT]

 

[amaroo]

I'm a career aviation professional who for years averaged around 350.000 annual international miles and who on several occasions flew almost 30,000 First Class miles in a week. Among airports I worked an 80-120 hour week across half the world. I flew my last international Qantas leg on Chrismas Eve in 1983. During that flight, those of the First Class passengers who weren't a couple of ACT bludgers and three PAX-ing Air New Zealand pilots, were dead-heading QF stews, who, for eight hours, talked like militant shop stewards. I'd been fed up with sharing premium space with the help (ACT and QF) on a diminishing number of QF trips -- but that one was the straw. Since then I've been code-share-booked QF on the final, domestic, leg of a number of inbound international trips and on every one of them a QF Earth person with delusions of importance has gone out of her way to seriously inconvenience me in one or another ways. Usually by insisting I check-in an "oversize" cabin bag. That has likely been at my side for a million or more Any-Other-Carrier Miles!

And then there's the psychopathic gang um I mean the airplane plumbers' union. Whose like has not been seen on Earth since Charley Bryan's machinist's union destroyed America's Eastern Airlines.

Best first post ever! Look forward to some more - welcome.

 

[marki]

My wife and I switched from flying Qantas in 2010 when Westpac introduced its Singapore Airlines Visa card. Why were we happy to give up Qantas, apart from the fact that redemption flights were much easier to obtain, and cost at least a third less miles than with Qantas? Becuase we found that on a good day, Qantas might be average. This was an airline where the management cared little for passengers, and the flight crew never understood the fine line whih separated informality from flippancy.

On domestic routes, except from the east coast to Perth it matters little whose seat one occupies for up to a couple of hours, so most people are happy to chose on the basis of price. Internationally, what is offered to passengers and particularly FF members? - a diminishing route network on which it gets harder and harder to obtain redemption flights. When SQ, MY, CX, and CZ offer three flights a day out of Melbourne, what has QF to offer? Less and less.

It looks like the first airline to operate 747s outside the US might well be the last, and when they go what will be left?

At least Ansett's demise was quick - Qantas looks like it will be a slow lingering death.

This is awful statement but true!

 

[ChrisDPom]

I flew with Ansett and Qantas in the good days. Ansett had a service ethic, Qantas was all about profit.

I also used to fly Ansett in the 80s, but had a totally different view.

Used to fly Perth to the Pilbara airports monthly for 7 years. I remember the "Ansett WA" monopoly, the East West Airlines competition and service improvement, the Ansett takeover and back to rubbish service and the eventual service improvement when Qantas started flying to the Pilbara.

I can remember the old milk run from Perth to Karratha, Headland, Newman and Paraburdoo and return. 6 hrs wasted each way and the only Paraburdoo flight some days. Don't like the flight? Take a car instead and thank you for flying Ansett WA.

My PA booked me on this flight twice when I refused to approve some overtime before her wedding.

I learned after that that and always approved the overtime and gave her a paid day in lieu every now and again!!

Price example from 1984. Ansett return KTA to SYD via PER was $1,006 in cattle class. $632 return PER to KTA.

I also remember with with some affection the old "Ansett Boilers" - the roughest bunch of hosties ever who had to cope with the Burrup construction workers and iron ore company miners getting their first booze in weeks and chatting up the first female they had often seen since they left Perth airport.

They were rough, tough and had some of the best one liners I have ever heard - and that is just the Hosties.

Ansett good old days?? - rose tinted glasses I think from a WA perspective.

Chris

 

[cosi]

I get that some people want to see PE on A330, but will it work commercially? .

CX believes so, because ALL of their daily flights from all Australian ports have the PE product.

I use this class for my regular trips from PER-HKG-PER and cannot understand why QF never offered this product on the A330 (now it does not matter because they no longer service Asia from PER)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Have never experienced it, but I thought QF had some of the better PE seats installed on it's A380. I get that some people want to see PE on A330, but will it work commercially? Are people willing to pay a significant premium for PE on the relatively short hops that the A330 does - that are not part of a longer journey (eg. to LHR, like on CX)?

maybe it works commercially for the same reason business class works for even the shortest flights? People want extra space.

 

[dajop]

CX believes so, because ALL of their daily flights from all Australian ports have the PE product.

Yes, but they have PE on the routes to support long haul flights - primarily Australia to Europe and Australia(PER) to USA. QF has PE product to UK and US too. A side benefit for CX is that they can sell left over PE seats to those terminating in HKG as well (like QF do between DXB & LHR). QF do not connect to anywhere "long haul" from their A330s (apart from to codeshares) and therefore they are only selling to the medium haul market, mostly 7-9 hr routes. I question if demand is enough for PE on these length routes, most people seem to able to survive 7-9 hrs in Y, it's the 22 hrs that's more difficult in Y.

maybe it works commercially for the same reason business class works for even the shortest flights? People want extra space.

It seems people are willing to pay 2-3x Y fares for PE to go to Europe, but would enough be willing to pay the same multiple just for a relatively short hop to Asia (say $1500-2200) to make PE profitable?

 

[katiebell]

From Asia to LHR is the short answer. As they did until recently. I was happy to structure a RTW trip specifically choosing Qantas for 3 of 4 long legs, taking BA across the Atlantic, and having options of 3 Asian cities served from Oz to anchor the second leg to Europe via LHR, depending on where in Asia I spent a few days. They will still have the last leg on an east to west trip by default, but the carrier that takes me on the 12 hour second leg is going to get the first. Agree that they can't go west to east, except direct to USA. So it's really just saying that dumping 3 Asian options for Dubai or nothing has made me dump them, and my post was really: they have rejected me and others with that change (and recent SC downgrade); who did they expect to pick up?

I agree: the loss of routes via Asia is a major loss of service. It is now almost impossible to fly rtw using QFi for most long sectors as they do not fly many any more. I would like to support the airline; the safety record, but no longer the food and drink, the FAs have improved beyond all expectations and I have had the most fantastic service on recenet trips. It is not possible to fly QFi if they do not fly the route. EK is on my banned carrier list (so if the ownership rules allow EK to buy a major stake in QF this really will be the deathknell for QF in my travels). My rtw flights are now mostly BA & CX and flghts to Europe depend on which of BA, CX and QF have the cheapest fare at the most convenient time (& this usually reflects which carrer is least popular with my fellow premium cabin pax).

The loss of SC for non QF flights is another death knell for the airline: they do not fly the route or provide the schedule and are now degrading the link to OW that encourages staying in the QF FF programme.

QF needs to stop being a virtual airline and start flying to places we want to travel to. If not, the airline will not succeed: such a pity when they have finally got so many of crew attitude matters fixed

 

[leadman]

What starts to worry me is that reading this and other threads, I don't see anyone fighting hard for the Qantas name. There does not seem to be anyone who is pushing back on anybody's comments correcting us in the "error of our ways" in criticizing/commenting on our national carrier. Is it that we recently have Holden drop out and finally admit, under country pride, it is GM a US company and we are prepared for anything including loss of national identity?

In my line of business, with the criticism being voiced I would certainly take notice (if not, I would not last too long), but is Qantas doing that? I know there was a meeting with a select few, but its not rocket science to read the many well balanced comments that are being made. Maybe they can add a kangaroo to the orange star?