Lunch with Lesley

[Barks]

I would like to attend one of these lunches regardless. Questions submitted, fingers crossed

 

[RooFlyer]

Not all of us know why!

Let me spell it out for those that don't.

Pill etc manufacturers, ("The Drugs industry") were notorious for putting on lavish entertainment at doctors & related professionals' conferences and other events - "nice lunches", nice dinners, golfing at luxury resorts , every sort of coddling and schmoozing you could think of. Whacko! One might think. Lucky doctors. We just guess the drugs industry just wanted the doctors to have a nice time, right?

No, of course not. The schmoozers wanted to curry favour with the people who are responsible for prescribing this product, over this other one. We would all like to think that doctors etc are all professional enough to be resistant to this sort of thing, but I venture that the drug companies didn't shell out millions on entertainment for nothing. I'm sure psycologists would tell us that there would be some latent even sub conscious favourable feelings toward anyone who was really nice to you.

That's I believe why the practice got banned.

Now before people say that I'm accusing Qantas of corrupting practices - no, of course not. But the point I and others make is that if you treat some-one really nicely, they will behave differently towards you than if you treated them indifferently. Like 'embedding' journalists with your troops, like dk4 said. If Qantas simply asked for questions and responded to them, I bet the questions would be different at a nice lunch than you tapping away at your laptop at home while eating a pizza.

EDIT: yes, I know people still ask hard questions at QF lunches. But the principle stands and I think is incontrovertible.

 

[Deleted member]

Let me spell it out for those that don't.

Pill etc manufacturers, ("The Drugs industry") were notorious for putting on lavish entertainment at doctors & related professionals' conferences and other events - "nice lunches", nice dinners, golfing at luxury resorts , every sort of coddling and schmoozing you could think of. Whacko! One might think. Lucky doctors. We just guess the drugs industry just wanted the doctors to have a nice time, right?

No, of course not. The schmoozers wanted to curry favour with the people who are responsible for prescribing this product, over this other one. We would all like to think that doctors etc are all professional enough to be resistant to this sort of thing, but I venture that the drug companies didn't shell out millions on entertainment for nothing. I'm sure psycologists would tell us that there would be some latent even sub conscious favourable feelings toward anyone who was really nice to you.

That's I believe why the practice got banned.

Now before people say that I'm accusing Qantas of corrupting practices - no, of course not. But the point I and others make is that if you treat some-one really nicely, they will behave differently towards you than if you treated them indifferently. Like 'embedding' journalists with your troops, like dk4 said. If Qantas simply asked for questions and responded to them, I bet the questions would be different at a nice lunch than you tapping away at your laptop at home while eating a pizza.

EDIT: yes, I know people still ask hard questions at QF lunches. But the principle stands and I think is incontrovertible.

Drs weren’t the only ones to have conventionsbanned.
However the problem i believe in the most partlay not with the Drs necessarily responding to this largesse (some did forsure) but for the fact that there was an appearance of impropriety for thosewho did (prescribe the drugs) regardlessof motive

 

[drron]

That is right.You couldn't trust doctors so now the big Pharma companies take journalists to Medical Conferences so that the public gets the real facts about new drugs.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Let me spell it out for those that don't.

Pill etc manufacturers, ("The Drugs industry") were notorious for putting on lavish entertainment at doctors & related professionals' conferences and other events - "nice lunches", nice dinners, golfing at luxury resorts , every sort of coddling and schmoozing you could think of. Whacko! One might think. Lucky doctors. We just guess the drugs industry just wanted the doctors to have a nice time, right?

No, of course not. The schmoozers wanted to curry favour with the people who are responsible for prescribing this product, over this other one. We would all like to think that doctors etc are all professional enough to be resistant to this sort of thing, but I venture that the drug companies didn't shell out millions on entertainment for nothing.

All true, but the comparison is not valid in this case. The accurate comparison would be drug companies putting on events for patients.

Drug companies taking a doctor out to lunch/dinner/golf were entertaining someone who could directly order their products for hundreds of patients (and most of the payment for these drugs to come from the government, as they were subsidised under the PBS).

As a patient, I have no problem if Pfizer wants to take me to lunch. But they won't bother, because I'm only one customer, and I don't have the ability to order their prescription drugs for myself, let alone for hundreds or thousands of others (and with most of the payment coming from taxpayers).

Whilst we as individual pax may have some ability to recommend airlines to our friends and colleagues, we - apart from perhaps some CL members - do not have the ability to direct hundreds or thousands of pax to fly with the airline we demand (and have the government pick up the tab!)

 

[zainman]

Punishing? Extremely harsh. Every FF program goes through changes. Jusk ask kpc if he was happy with SQ changes a few years ago?

And I am still trying to work out why you care! Don't you chase points? Manufactured spending? Is that what you call it? Churn credit cards for signon bonuses? It's not like you are losing anything out of your pocket? Is it?

I lose the ability to convert such points into MASA's to retain/attain status on QFF. Also a lot of my flying is on CX/QR which I funnelled into QF. Not anymore though.

Like you said before John, the game has changed and we must evolve

 

[boomy]

As possibly the original 'negative one', may I hazard a reply? I am grateful for mods to allow this free-swinging discussion. It IS about (most of our) favourite airline and how it interacts with its customers and what we thing about that. AFF shouldn't be just a fan club. I do think there should be a bit more humor when our debating gets heated, and I confess to poking fun at Qantas here but I am also happy to believe there are greater crimes.

BTW Boomy, if you have gotten this far - honestly, yes, I would refuse a Flounge visit or an upgrade if I felt it would inhibit me expressing a view that the host may not appreciate. But I do confess to being a bit old fashioned. There are ways to obtain honest, forthright feedback from customers, and it needn't involve schmoozing people. Corporate schmoozing of clients is as old as business itself. Why do you think corporates schmooze customers? Isn't it to make the customer think nicely about the business rather than what's bad about the business?

First I must say I like the way you use humour with your criticism. It's MUCH better then those who take every opportunity to trash QF in general and AJ in particular, with no constructive comments. I wish people would be as "generous" with positive comments as they are with the negative ones. I'm sure that QF has some satisfied customers among their 8 million FFs.
I respect your principals RooFlyer, but you are obviously in the minority. Most people don't mind trashing QF while they wine and dine in the F lounge which they entered using their WP status that was achieved with the help of MASA and cheap JQ flights.

 

[EmilyHoward]

All true, but the comparison is not valid in this case. The accurate comparison would be drug companies putting on events for patients.

Drug companies taking a doctor out to lunch/dinner/golf were entertaining someone who could directly order their products for hundreds of patients (and most of the payment for these drugs to come from the government, as they were subsidised under the PBS).

As a patient, I have no problem if Pfizer wants to take me to lunch. But they won't bother, because I'm only one customer, and I don't have the ability to order their prescription drugs for myself, let alone for hundreds or thousands of others (and with most of the payment coming from taxpayers).

Whilst we as individual pax may have some ability to recommend airlines to our friends and colleagues, we - apart from perhaps some CL members - do not have the ability to direct hundreds or thousands of pax to fly with the airline we demand (and have the government pick up the tab!)

Agree totally John!

EH

 

[drron]

All true, but the comparison is not valid in this case. The accurate comparison would be drug companies putting on events for patients.

Drug companies taking a doctor out to lunch/dinner/golf were entertaining someone who could directly order their products for hundreds of patients (and most of the payment for these drugs to come from the government, as they were subsidised under the PBS).

As a patient, I have no problem if Pfizer wants to take me to lunch. But they won't bother, because I'm only one customer, and I don't have the ability to order their prescription drugs for myself, let alone for hundreds or thousands of others (and with most of the payment coming from taxpayers).

Whilst we as individual pax may have some ability to recommend airlines to our friends and colleagues, we - apart from perhaps some CL members - do not have the ability to direct hundreds or thousands of pax to fly with the airline we demand (and have the government pick up the tab!)

Not as different as you think John.
Quite often 2 companies would introduce similar drugs at the same time.Indeed there were occasions when 2 companies introduced the same drug so they were promoting their brand.
As QF is promoting their brand over other OW members such as CX,JAL etc or indeed competing alliances.
But it is the principal-these events are put on to promote good feeling of the Companies brand whether in Pharmaceuticals,airlines or hotels.
Word of mouth is one of the best forms of promotion.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

In my mind, the robustness of the debate here could easily occur around the table at the restaurant. And maybe Lesley and her team would glean feedback and ideas from the opposing ideas set forth at the lunch? We all want to see an improving and financially stable Qantas.

 

[JohnK]

EDIT: yes, I know people still ask hard questions at QF lunches. But the principle stands and I think is incontrovertible.

This event is nothing like what you have described. Qantas is seeking feedback and constructive criticism at the lunch.

I have only been to one and I think these events are worthwhile.

 

[anat0l]

We all want to see an improving and financially stable Qantas.

Let's be fair - not everyone is wanting to see that.

 

[Austman]

Fair point if that's all they did, which of course is not the case, with focus groups in use and of course the other FF events like the tweet & greet as well as the coughtail receptions in capital cities also held throughout the year. Inviting all QFFers would be a tad impractical given there are over 8 million of them, that's a big hall required.

OK. All they have to do is offer an invite to all QFFers but limit the number of attendees to something reasonable. The last QF AGM was held at a venue that could seat 620. I'd think that would be reasonable.

I've been to some QFF events. All this talk from others who were at the same events I attended about how many hard questions were asked? They can't be serious! The (not really) hard questions that were asked were few and far between. Lots of questions yes... but not many hard ones. These events are more like AFF get togethers. And they are fine to explain new products or similar. To explain major QFF decisions that have already been taken should go beyond a very limited and vetted AFF focus group.

And let's face it, if QF took action based on AFF focus groups, I'd doubt that they'd be making these changes. Either that or it's thanks a lot (NOT) AFF focus groups!

 

[samh004]

And let's face it, if QF took action based on AFF focus groups, I'd doubt that they'd be making these changes. Either that or it's thanks a lot (NOT) AFF focus groups!

I'd hazard a guess that the access to information on MASA's and before them, JASA's, contributed to the downfall of them. If the community hadn't been so willing to share how to do it with every person that joined, they might still be overlooked and available, but that's the case with anything. When you know about a good thing, you want to share, and it's a great community for sharing information like that.

 

[whatmeworry]

I'd hazard a guess that the access to information on MASA's and before them, JASA's, contributed to the downfall of them. If the community hadn't been so willing to share how to do it with every person that joined, they might still be overlooked and available, but that's the case with anything. When you know about a good thing, you want to share, and it's a great community for sharing information like that.

Don't worry, QF will lose heaps more money once people start using their points for Oneworld awards rather then an a ASA.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Don't worry, QF will lose heaps more money once people start using their points for Oneworld awards rather then an a ASA.

I suspect that xASA tickets make up a tiny proportion of points redemptions.

 

[OzEire]

I suspect that xASA tickets make up a tiny proportion of points redemptions.

I look forward to hearing what is discussed, from those who do attend.

Perhaps there will be an AFF only "special" phone number for mASA bookings!

 

[tuapekastar]

Just to add my 2c worth (I have not read all the posts so sorry if anything is repeated). I have no issue with lunches of this nature, in fact I suspect most/all AFF people who attend would be quite forthright with their questions and views, and I'm sure QF think they are a good thing otherwise they would not host them.

I did not end up entering for several reasons. 1) a touch of laziness, 2) an innate dislike for written 'competitions' - "state in 25 words...", and 3) when I did sit down and start to try and formulate some questions I realised my prime motivation and guidelines for framing the questions was to get invited to lunch, not necessarily ask about what I was interested in.

 

[kpc]

I wonder if this lunch is still on...Red Roo?

 

[anat0l]

I wonder if this lunch is still on...Red Roo?

I'm guessing people will get responses either late today or possibly tomorrow (not putting money on tomorrow necessarily, as it's not a standard work day).

Of course, we could find out on Monday, but that'd be a little bit rich....