Heads up about program changes

[medhead]

Maybe different routes on different flights

The medium haul and short haul example tables are exactly the same, at least last time I looked. Someone screwed up with copy and paste.

 

[amaroo]

So, you're saying QF should no longer be an international carrier? Granted their more than halfway there already, whats the point of being in OneWorld then?

Your Q and A sums it up. IMO they want customers that fly with them and pay them directly.....OW seems to be the ugly cousin that gets invited to the parties but no one wants to talk too.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Your Q and A sums it up. IMO they want customers that fly with them and pay them directly.....OW seems to be the ugly cousin that gets invited to the parties but no one wants to talk too.

I think you, and potentially QF underestimate the power of OW. This is a marketing alliance. Based on an ever-shrinking route map, QF needs alliance partners to fill in the blanks. By penalising those of us who use the partners, they are handing business to the others who respect their alliances.

If QF hate OW so much, why would they start a DFW service to feed into AA?

I can't imagine WP will be worth much apart from a business lounge domestically if QF drop OW and stop flying internationally. Where would you burn your QFF points with no partners? There certainly aren't many destinations to burn them on QF metal alone.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Your Q and A sums it up. IMO they want customers that fly with them and pay them directly.....OW seems to be the ugly cousin that gets invited to the parties but no one wants to talk too.

If QF gave options that meant not relying on OW partners, I'm certain a high % of QFF's would pay (and that means cash or points) to stay with QF. But QF doesn't even offer the options, and by being part of OW, and now penalising those who are doing the most "patriotic" option possible, they are also going to lose those QFF's on any domestic sectors.

On a similar vein, it'd be interesting to hear any thoughts from OW about this, although they have their catch all statement about each member having their own earn rates, so probably nothing is their answer.

 

[Sunhill]

My five cents worth.

I can understand the commercial reason why Qantas has made a number of changes in the last few months, including these changes to the Frequent Flyer programme. That doesn't bother me. I also realise that the FF programme is not an entitlement, and if rules change, then I simply have to suck it up - play the game by the rules in place.

However, it's also quite clear to me that Qantas do not want my custom. Various changes to the program, from my perspective, seem to be aimed at the weekly traveller. I fly frequently, about once every 3 weeks, but that's not enough to gain most of the benefits now. It's now harder to earn points, and you now need more points to buy the rewards than before (i.e. stealth increases to flight upgrades). And there's not even any reward for loyalty, as the badly named "loyalty" bonus is only available to the frequent traveller. It's no longer available to the traveller who might only fly once a month, but stays LOYAL and chooses no other airline.

So for me, it now simply comes down to price and service. In the last three months, good service on Qantas flights has been an exception rather than the rule, and other airlines are doing this better. I can't see too much difference between the "low cost" and the "full service", so what am I paying extra for? As of February this year, I'm a swinging voter.

And I'm also a Qantas shareholder.

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

Quite a positive and clear write-up on the changes at Australian Business Traveler:

Status credit surprise: many Qantas frequent flyers better off

Despite the outcry over sweeping changes to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program, this cloud has a silver lining – or, to be more correct, a gold and platinum lining.

The number of status credits earned on Qantas flights will in many cases increase under the new zone-and-fare-based system.

The majority of route/ticket combinations which don't get a bump in status credits remain the same as today.

Relatively few frequent flyers will come off worse in the status credits stake after the new system kicks in on July 1 and business travellers making long-distance international trips on flexible fares will find it much quicker to climb up the status ladder – as long as they fly with Qantas rather than any of its Oneworld partners...

The articles goes on to outline the impact on a selection of domestic, European, American and Asian routes.

 

[amaroo]

I think you, and potentially QF underestimate the power of OW. This is a marketing alliance. Based on an ever-shrinking route map, QF needs alliance partners to fill in the blanks. By penalising those of us who use the partners, they are handing business to the others who respect their alliances.

If QF hate OW so much, why would they start a DFW service to feed into AA?

I can't imagine WP will be worth much apart from a business lounge domestically if QF drop OW and stop flying internationally. Where would you burn your QFF points with no partners? There certainly aren't many destinations to burn them on QF metal alone.

I'm an advocate of OW and hope QF continue to be a member. What I'm saying is that QF seem to have little interest in members that predominantly fly OW airlines and deposit the credits to their QFF account.

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

This SMH article solicits comment from a number of observers:

The airline ‘‘ought to be very careful in how they tread in this area’’ because of increased competition from Virgin Australia, the editor of AirlineRatings.com, Geoffrey Thomas, told Fairfax Media. [...] Mr Thomas said the change was ‘‘absolutely profit driven. ‘Doing something like this may look good to an accountant on paper, but in the cut and thrust of intense competition, this may be a frequent flyer point too far.’’ [...]

Consumer group Choice spokesman Tom Godfrey said the news did not bode well for consumers. ‘‘A lot of consumers who are looking for discounted airfares and seeking to get a benefit from signing up to a rewards program will have to think twice before looking at Qantas,’’ he said. ‘‘Maybe it’s time Frequent Flyers should change its name to Premium Purchases, because, at the end of the day, Qantas is not rewarding your loyalty or how far you fly, but rewarding the premium price you pay for tickets.’’ But Mr Thomas believes Qantas’ reputation is ‘‘good enough to withstand the backlash in the long run’’. [...] ‘‘Yes, they’ve taken a bit of a battering, but as long as they continue to deliver a valued product, they will survive,’’ he said.

David Flynn of Australian Business Traveler is also quoted in the article.

 

[Danger]

I am mass producing coffee mugs with the slogan "Keep Calm and Leave Qantas" who wants one?

I'm in.

A lot of hate going on here... Don't worry Qantas - I still love you (and Red Roo!!!)

I think hate is a bit strong. Yes, there have been one or two who have probably shown that, but the overwhelming majority are simply dumbfounded, bewildered, flabbergasted, gobsmacked . . .

I'm a little late to this discussion but....

It's a competitive world, do people think that Virgin will retain their current earning rate when the competition has reduced their rate so aggressively?

I predict that Virgin would already have had a heads up, allow people to vent their Qantas venom and will quietly bring about some changes as soon as people have all committed into their scheme.

Just a thought that we have seen before.

Alby

I would say the chance of VA changing their table negatively is next to none. Only someone with experience as a QF marketing or PR employee would suggest VA do that. Far and away VA should simply sit back and let the numbers flow to them. Twelve months down the track, maybe, but they would be beyond stupid to take some of QF's negative publicity by taking a similar path at this point in time.

 

[Robert K]

It has me completely confused. AJ's aim in life is to turn QF into a LCC, via Jetstar. Making air travel affordable to all, offering the lowest fare at all costs, holding out for the 65% market share, cheap, cheap, cheap! But don't book the cheap fare or your QFF points will never rack up! A loyalty programme that discourages loyalty? Give me a break! He is destroying the company and not by accident either.

How does the programme discourage loyalty? It has just changed, and maybe you benefit a bit less from it.

If they were killing a baby seal every time you flew with them, then that would be discouraging loyalty.

 

[Sunhill]

Quite a positive and clear write-up on the changes at Australian Business Traveler:

Yes. The opening paragraph illustrates my point. It's all good for the gold and platinum members. Very positive changes. But for silver and bronze?

 

[hossein_au]

Go to the terms and conditions of the program. The text below the Qantas tables state that XPUZ will earn for ASA bookings made by June 30.

There is an "*" after each, without the corresponding footnote.... A safe presumption is that the footnote would read "* Only valid up to and including 30 June 2014".

 

[amaroo]

If QF gave options that meant not relying on OW partners, I'm certain a high % of QFF's would pay (and that means cash or points) to stay with QF. But QF doesn't even offer the options, and by being part of OW, and now penalising those who are doing the most "patriotic" option possible, they are also going to lose those QFF's on any domestic sectors.

On a similar vein, it'd be interesting to hear any thoughts from OW about this, although they have their catch all statement about each member having their own earn rates, so probably nothing is their answer.

OW is still a critical partner - just not a major earner for QF status. Lets stop beating around the bush. IMO they needed to kill the golden status running geese....ASA and OW partner status runs! They've knocked both off in the one move.

 

[SeatBackForward]

OW is still a critical partner - just not a major earner for QF status. Lets stop beating around the bush. IMO they needed to kill the golden status running geese....ASA and OW partner status runs! They've knocked both off in the one move.

Why aren't they? if QF can provide its FF to other OW partners, why aren't they providing an equivalent number to QF?

 

[leadman]

I have to pick up on the point some have made that these changes reward those Qantas flyers who are "loyal" at the expense of those who are leeching off cheaper oneworld fares to obtain status.

Let's take my Dad for example (Platinum for 15+ years). Around five years ago, my Dad would easily retain Platinum (and then some) on QF only due to it having a decent international network. He could get to Frankfurt before 8.50am in the morning. He could fly to Beijing on a Qantas aircraft. He could take an overnight flight to Hong Kong on Qantas and connect throughout Asia. Through the BA partnership he could fly Europe-Tokyo/Shanghai/Hong Kong/Bangkok/Singapore-Sydney. This used to allow him to kill multiple meetings in the one trip.

Over the years he had to change his flights over to airlines such as CX, because of QF network decisions. The QF/EK alternative to Frankfurt, as mentioned above, gets in at 8.50am - too late for Business. The QF flight numbered alternative to Beijing is a China Eastern codeshare operating via Nanjing (enough said really.......). There is only one flight per day to Hong Kong. However, in order to stay loyal to QF where possible, he leveraged on the oneworld partnership of airlines such as Cathay Pacific. And where Qantas was available as a viable alternative, like on domestic flights, to New Zealand, the USA, Manila etc. - he has stuck loyally to QF.

Now, because of QF own decisions network wise, he is left with an option that makes it unrewarding to stay with QF because he gets punished for flying partners that offered an alternative where QF could not. But this is a choice that is beyond any reasonable person's control, other than the incompetent decisions of Qantas management.

People flying oneworld partners are not leeches trying to get status cheaply and are not any less "loyal" to Qantas. I understand that QF cannot be all things to all people. I do not expect QF to fly everywhere. But in a world of airline partnerships, it is not unreasonable to expect to be rewarded for flying partner airlines that offer an alternative where your business cannot.

I agree 100% as this is the position I am in. You stay loyal to QF and OW, but in this move you are penalised. Clearly with their separation of east/west and almost specific routings they have closed us off from OW carriers and channelling us through EK. The loyalty with OW and their FF's seem to be about the same!

 

[RSD]

QF core game is domestic.

I don't think that QF know what their core game is any more, and I'm not even sure if they still see flying as being a core part of their business!

 

[amaroo]

Why aren't they? if QF can provide its FF to other OW partners, why aren't they providing an equivalent number to QF?

Not sure. My best guess is status abuse. Isn't QF regarded as the easiest OW airline to gain status?

 

[RSD]

I hope that once you have logged into your frequent flyer account, that you can then go to book a seat and it will show you the points and SC you will earn for the $ price under the Red-e-deal and other columns so as you can see what you will get for your $ and can make an informed choice. Otherwise most of us aren't going to have a clue as we wouldn't have a clue past that we fly in Y or J. One thing for sure - this isn't going to be simpler!

 

[PineappleSkip]

Looking at the regions page, and this is challenging my concept of 'Northwest Australia'. Its like this whole exercise is designed to maximise confusion.

North West Australia

Darwin/Perth

https://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/program/regions

Cheers skip

 

[albatross710]

Clearly you'd pick the part of the business with the record result to screw with, especially when it has such a big impact on the former.

Perhaps they just want to bring QFF back down in line with the other poor results to stave off those investors.

I feel most sorry for the ma&pa shareholders.

I'm thinking...
But it is the loss making divisions that are paying for the points, so reducing the points helps their business.

Changing the 'Redemption' rates would improve the Loyalty business.

One thing to consider is no change to how miles are earned through credit card purchases. In my case, these account for the majority of my miles.

I was disappointed/frustrated that in this current earning year, I will make 6 Qfi flights 3 to Asia, 2 to USA and 1 to Europe plus limited domestic travels and yet still only make silver. It was easier just to buy a QC membership.