Heads up about program changes

[JohnK]

That's a thought....
They are talking regions and zones now, not sectors/flights. Under this new system is a trip like SYD-xNRT-ORD going to count as East Coast Australia-Japan + whatever zone Japan-North America ends up being, or just East Coast Australia-West Coast US?

If there is a change in flight number then it will still count as 2 sectors.

 

[esquire]

My assessment so far is that it is no longer a loyalty program. It should perhaps now be called a "Frequent High Value Spender Program".

Trying to suggest that more flexible fares should be used to earn more points/SC treats us like fools. You pay more to be able to change your mind and if you know your dates and times of travel and do not need flexibility you are less valuable to QF and are penalised for providing QF with a firm commitment to a date and time.


"Not happy Jan"

The differnet earning of SC are not much different to the flexi saver/flexi now. The extra points for DOM (not that many in the scheme of things) seems fair to me- they are making a lot more money of of these flyers and this is who they want. Taking it off the discount economy and OW legs where they don't compete however is a bit mean.

You can move your flying to VA but their programs is based on $$$$ as well.

Ultimately loyalty in most businesses = High Value Spender

 

[JohnK]

It looks like existing bookings will get only current points - not SCs - as per the site

"Existing bookings beyond July 2014For members with a booking made prior to 27 March 2014 in a fare class impacted by these changes for travel on or after 1 July 2014, we will automatically credit your account within a month of flying with the Qantas Points that applied when you made your booking."

Sorry if it has been covered somewhere upthread - I am overloaded.

Hmmm. That could be something that was missed.

I would be surprised if existing bookings would be impacted.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I have millions of FF points in various programs, but never let that get in the way that I spend $50k+ pa on QF which they are at risk of losing to other carriers..

But yes do tell me more, again, about how Amex hates me as a customer pushing $1mil plus through various Amex cards, yes, yes I am sure they don't want me and all the disgusting merchant fees that I generate for them.

It's pretty much irrelevant how much you spend - what's relevant is what *profit* you generate. QF doesn't give two sh*ts if you spend $50K with them, if it costs them $100K to provide the service. They'd be better off if you just took your custom somewhere else.

Likewise, spending $5 on a beer regardless of how much merchant fee it generates for Amex, isn't profitable when they're giving you 1000 MR points for that purchase. Why on earth do you think they spent so much time and effort trying to cut people off from that promotion? Because it was spectacularly profitable for them? Surely you're not that naïve.

I'm astounded that you, and many others, in this forum, have failed to understand the difference between revenue and profit (not just in this thread, but many previous ones).

 

[Ansett]

Ok so checked how many points one can earn flying MEL-BKK in F and this is it

Your SummaryYour Activity StatementYour BookingsYour ProfileClaim Missing Points

• Flights
• Other Partners

Change Your PIN



Home/Frequent Flyer / Earning Points


Join Now

[h=1]Earning Points Calculator for travel up to 30 June 2014[/h]Route: MEL - BKK

Points Earned for Travel
Status	Platinum
Qantas points	10400
Status bonus awarded for your Chairmans Lounge membership	5200
Points that can be earned for this journey	15600
Status credits that can be earned	180

I clearly checked it for after the 1st July yet header is for upto 30 June ----- Fail

tried to book a First Class Ticket in July flexible with dates and low and behold no option to select F only Business Premium and Economy are selectable.

But wait there is NO PE to BKK !!!!

What an absolute shambles heads should roll for this incompetence.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

"Overall, the focus is on making it easier for members to understand the number of Qantas Points and Status credits earned by moving from a distance based calculation, to a zonal earn table for both Qantas and Jetstar. There are also some changes to Status credit earn with other partner airlines.

We believe it’s a fairer way to earn points and Status credits as it will now more closely reflect the fare paid, route travelled and airline you choose, versus the miles flown."


My assessment so far is that it is no longer a loyalty program. It should perhaps now be called a "Frequent High Value Spender Program".

Trying to suggest that more flexible fares should be used to earn more points/SC treats us like fools. You pay more to be able to change your mind and if you know your dates and times of travel and do not need flexibility you are less valuable to QF and are penalised for providing QF with a firm commitment to a date and time.

By that argument, PE, J and F should never have earned any more than the cheapest Y fare. Because the extra money you're paying is for flexibility, a better seat, better amenities and so forth.

Yet, I'm not aware of any other major legacy carrier who runs their FFP like that. All of the reward higher class cabins with more points. And most seem to reward more expensive fares with more points too.

So, are all these other carriers wrong with their FFPs? Or was QF just an anomaly that's being dragged into the 21st century?

 

[Lonely Flyer]

Yep very poor form QF very poor. I hope they are all huddled in a crisis room now working out how they can change it back, after ruining their golden goose overnight!

They will not change it back. Not smart enough!!

 

[pagingjoan]

Hey...the new calculator is fantastic!

View attachment 26668

Yes!
Who knew CL for us all was part of the new regime! One benefit, at least

 

[Limewood]

Lets face it Q can't get their web site right just imagine when this lot arrives...

• Discount economy
• Economy
• Flexible economy
• Premium economy
• Flexible premium economy
• Business
• Flexible business
• First

Please stop shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[drron]

There has been plenty of changes in the frequent flyer world recently. Many are moving to a revenue based system. Just be happy that the cheap Y tickets still earn anything at all, unlike CX.

Not sure why people are bringing up woolworth so much. Most, if not all, frequent flyer program has shopping partners. People in america don't even need to step on a plane to get top tier status.

Not true.For regular status it is BIS.On AA it changed a couple of years ago so now only BIS counts for LT status as well.Previously all points counted towards this.
Even with these changes for most flyers it is still easier to get OWS and LT status through QFF rather than Aadvantage.

 

[Stoopidsteve]

It looks like existing bookings will get only current points - not SCs - as per the site

"Existing bookings beyond July 2014For members with a booking made prior to 27 March 2014 in a fare class impacted by these changes for travel on or after 1 July 2014, we will automatically credit your account within a month of flying with the Qantas Points that applied when you made your booking."

Sorry if it has been covered somewhere upthread - I am overloaded.

I HOPE it's a typo in the "when do these changes take effect" because it's a direct contradiction to the "What if I've already booked" FAQ:
Q: When do these changes take effect?
A: The changes are effective for travel on and from 1 July 2014. This means if you book on/before 28 March 2014, for travel on or after 1 July 2014 you will earn Qantas Points and Status credits in line with these new Airline Earning Tables.
Q: What if I've already booked?
A: If you have flights already booked (booked and ticketed on or before Fri 28 Mar 14) for travel on/after 1 July 2014, you will earn the Qantas Points and Status credits that applied at the time you made your booking. The applicable Qantas Points will be credited to your Qantas Frequent Flyer Account approximately four weeks after the dates of the flight(s) taken.

 

[SeatBackForward]

I'm astounded that you, and many others, in this forum, have failed to understand the difference between revenue and profit (not just in this thread, but many previous ones).

So by reducing revenue they plan on improving profitability? fine thats an acceptable strategy. But you don't reduce your operational costs *much* by having emptier planes.

 

[Oxy]

If they want to make it simpler just make earning based on points/$ spent. No need to employ heaps of people to come up with this new rubbish table. It is in every way more complex.

 

[Himeno]

I just tweeted AA, BA, AY and CX asking about status match for people looking to leave QFFF. AA replied within minutes saying to contact AAdvantage Customer Service for assistance...

 

[Stoopidsteve]

For those who missed it in the avalanche of posts:

 

[ChrisCunard]

I wonder ... Perhaps VA has actually got people on the inside at QF who are trying to tear the airline down from the inside. Because all the Qantas news of late has been designed, it seems, to make loyal customers walk... Oh well, it's not really as if you can fly much on a QF aircraft ex. PER come May anyways. Glad I retained VA platinum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[openseat]

Not true.For regular status it is BIS.On AA it changed a couple of years ago so now only BIS counts for LT status as well.Previously all points counted towards this.
Even with these changes for most flyers it is still easier to get OWS and LT status through QFF rather than Aadvantage.

I could never understand why AA didn't use EQP as the measure for LT status. Surely a better measure of a profitable customer than base miles.

 

[lovestotravel]

It's pretty much irrelevant how much you spend - what's relevant is what *profit* you generate. QF doesn't give two sh*ts if you spend $50K with them, if it costs them $100K to provide the service. They'd be better off if you just took your custom somewhere else.

Likewise, spending $5 on a beer regardless of how much merchant fee it generates for Amex, isn't profitable when they're giving you 1000 MR points for that purchase. Why on earth do you think they spent so much time and effort trying to cut people off from that promotion? Because it was spectacularly profitable for them? Surely you're not that naïve.

Surely you realise that the Amex promotion was about 5 years ago and that Amex has done very well out of me since, so your claims are still false, likewise that one JASA that I did on a double SC promo has since given QF much more revenue and profit than if I hadn't of made Platinum back then.

 

[serfty]

All bookings after 28 march earn according to the new scheme.

Yes, but will any seat awards in P/Z/X/U class booked between 29th March and June 30th inclusve earn points/SC's? (Even under the new scheme)

 

[Cossie]

I'm one of those high status customers who got there by "gaming" the system. I took advantage of double status credit offers and marginal Any Seat Awards for the last few years to reach and maintain WP. I almost always fly discount economy - with the notable exception of taking advantage of the business class MASAs.

But I dispute that I'm an expensive customer and that Qantas loses money on my business. In fact, I'd argue that I generate a disproportionately high profit for them.

Consider: Before I got caught up in the tier hunt game and well and truly earned the "wanker" tag, I only ever flew best fare of the day. Hardly any of my flying was with Qantas, certainly hardly any of my self-funded flying. (For the past two years 100% of my travel has been self-funded.)

But since I started to chase SCs I essentially changed from "best fare of the day" to "best Qantas Group fare of the day". To this effect I:

• consistently flew Qantas domestically over Virgin, even though Qantas's fares are consistently higher.
• consistently flew Jetstar over Tiger, even though Jetstar's fares are consistently higher, and paid the premium for the Plus bundle on top of that.
• consistently flew Qantas (either Qantas metal or Qantas codeshare) over other airlines internationally, even though Qantas's fares are consistently higher. For instance, I recently paid $1299 for a discount economy flight to Los Angeles when Air New Zealand was selling its SYD-LAX flights for a touch over $900, a premium of almost 50%. Before that, I paid over $3000 for a Sydney/London/New York/Sydney trip on QF when other airlines (IIRC it was a mix of Virgin Atlantic and Delta or maybe United) were charging a tad a bit over $2000, again a premium of almost 50%.
• took advantage of several 50% and double status credit offers and marginal ASAs, which meant that rather than paying $400 economy return each for several flights to Perth (the best fare of the day), I paid over $600 business return in cash plus 88,000 in points (which reduced Qantas's liability by around $880 based on a conservative valuation of 1c/point) per trip. Ie, I effectively paid a premium of somewhere around $1280 or more for each of these flights. Yes, I flew in business, but I would normally never fly in business. I'm content in economy. I've even flown Tiger to Perth and found the experience perfectly acceptable.
• I switched to a credit card that charges me hundreds of dollars in fees simply so that my spend will generate points - Qantas of course sells these points to the bank and earns real dollars that way, and "buys" these points back from me in a way that costs them a pittance in real dollars.

The marginal increase in revenue (or decrease in liabilities, which has the same effect on the bottom line) as a result of this - quite frankly utilitarian nonsensical - behaviour is high. Increase in revenue/decrease in liabilities: thousands of dollars.

The corresponding marginal increase in cost is low. (Remembering that substantial fixed costs - such as building and outfitting a lounge - are effectively sunk costs.) A dozen or so entries into the lounge where I consume a few dollars worth of food and drink per visit. A business class meal on those flight when I leverage the MASAs. I'm not displacing a full-fare paying passenger because with Qantas's "65% market share" line-in-the-sand and the relative scarcity of MASAs in the first place there's always room in the business class section anyway, so there's no corresponding loss in full fare business class revenue. Increase in costs: hundreds of dollars.

Probably the only times I've lost Qantas money is the two times I've taken advantage of the First Class international lounge on a cheap Jetstar pseudo-domestic ticket. I paid about $80 for each of these tickets and - factoring in the incremental cost of my lounge meal - may have lost Qantas a few dozen dollars on these two occasions. (It's also possible that my upcoming American Airlines status run may lose Qantas something, depending on the cross-airline transfer costings.) But considering I spent thousands of dollars to get to that point I don't think they should complain about that. Because net increase in profit as a result of my participation in the QFF snipe hunt: thousands of dollars.

But will I continue with this behaviour as a result of these latest changes that further devalue the loyalty scheme? No. I will go back to best economy fare of the day, which will rarely be Qantas.

That's how these changes will personally affect me. Everyone's mileage will obviously vary.


Speaking more generally, these changes seem to have been implemented on the assumption that relatively few people will change their purchasing behaviour adversely as a result, thereby generating fewer liabilities/costs for Qantas for the same travel/revenue. And/or it assumes that relatively many people will pay an even higher premium for the same benefits - eg changing from a partner airline flight to a Qantas flight, or a sale fare to a flexible fare, or from economy to business, in order to chase points and status credits. If these assumptions are correct, then the changes will be to Qantas's financial benefit. If they aren't, it will only further erode their profitability and long-term brand loyalty.

Sums me up pretty much as well, yes I did take some MASA's in January to get to WP, on the flights I took only 1 was full in J. In 2 of the others there were only 2 passengers. Yes I used points but I also had to make a co-payment to get seats that would probably have been empty anyway.

So, would the bean counters really rather I hadn't flown at all and the seats I occupied were empty? Can anyone explain how me using those MASA's has cost Q money given the points don't come free and I paid a co-payment?

OK maybe I did overindulge in the 'no name' brand party pies in the Townsville lounge, that must have cost catering 10 bucks or so! This however was only because I wasn't allowed to change my ticket to earlier flight!
Now I will make damn sure I get my fill in the 'F' lounges on my flights to Europe in April and May, what goes around, comes around.

I also get a lot of points from woolies and shop there in preference to anything else to get said points (but I'm also soon to be a shareholder when an inheritance goes through shortly so this will help with that as well).

Am I wrong in thinking that Q gives these points to woolies for free, so woolies can pass them on to us? Said very much tongue in cheek. As apparently there is no such thing as free lunch, woolies must pay Q for these points, correct?

QANTAS must make money from giving out FF points or they wouldn't do it.

Now don't get me statrted on not being able to fly QF to Frankfurt via Singapore.