Young flyer with various questions (Melbourne - Honolulu Promotion)

[Mattg]

I see thank you for taking the time to explain that, very helpful.

For future reference what's the math your doing to get the cents per point?

Fairly simple, I usually take the cost price of buying a ticket and subtract any taxes payable on an award booking to find a notional dollar value for the points. I then divide the dollar value (in cents, so just add two zeroes to the dollar amount) by the number of points required.

So in the SYD-MEL example, a cash fare costs $725. An award booking costs 16,000 points plus around $32 in taxes. So I subtract $32 from $725 to get $693 - which is effectively what the 16,000 points are worth. Then divide 69,300 by 16,000 to get 4.33.

 

[eminere]

In a nutshell, this is why I and most other people on the forum don't recommend points plus pay... YMMV.

Impeccable logic and I could not agree more.

 

[JessicaTam]

Appreciate it and thanks for your input.

I already was able to pick my seats for free and got as close to the front of the plane as possible with aisle seats but good tip I'll keep an eye out.
Is that something Qantas will email me to advise me or I will have to contently check manually?

You will need to check manually.

 

[RichardMEL]

Welcome to AFF, Alexander. It's good to have you on board!

AustralianPoochie is an unabashed fan of Points + Pay, yet as has been demonstrated here, in this instance, and almost all *international* premium cabin itins this is far from the best value for money. At any rate, given you will only have 90k points in your account the point (pun intended) is moot as you couldn't afford it.

To say an upgrade is unlikely on this route is fair, though October is not a peak travel period (in the shoulder) to HNL, and paid demand is probably small, and it could well be that higher status passengers (eg: Platinum, Gold) may not be flying who would take any upgrade seats. Silver could well be enough to snag a seat, though of course this idea is far from guaranteed. I would certainly rate the chances on SYD-HNL in Oct to be better than if one was trying to upgrade SYD-LAX or SYD-LHR, for example where chances for a Silver would be almost certainly zero baring some miracle (or massive number of misconnects or something)

Here's the current fare bucket availability listing for QF3/12OCT: J9 C9 D9 I9 U0 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 G0

Basically, J (Business) is wide open (and the seat map confirms this with no actual allocated seats showing-though this does not mean none are sold) and no upgrade/reward (U) availability at this point. Closer to departure this would change depending on the paid demand on the flight.

The cheapest international sale fares, as pointed out, do not qualify for upgrades however an option MAY be to buy up to the next Economy fare that would allow for an upgrade, which QF sales could help with. However this option is probably not a great one given the chances for upgrade vs the cost on top of the $1050 you've paid, and possible change fees involved (you'd have to phone QF to enquire on this and make a determination on cost/potential benefit).

Re using QFF points to pay for hotels. Personally I feel this would again be poor use of points, though not unreasonable if you feel your travel may be limited over the near-medium future, so potential to use your points on reward or upgrades. Personally I'd head to hotel search aggreation sites like hotelscombined, wotif, priceline etc for hotel deals. HNL has a heap of hotels and again not peak time so cheaper deals are probably available (with the bonus of earning some QFF's using your new NAB card to pay). Again, a cost/benefit analysis can help you decide if this value is right for you. It's just my opinion.

Another consideration is that in october chances are the SYD-HNL routes would still be served by older config A330's without the Business Suite product. Now this provides more seats potentially available for upgrade, but a lesser quality experience once in J on these overnight flights when you want to sleep if possible (thinking SYD-HNL here).

Again welcome to AFF and happy travels!

 

[AlexanderWalker]

Here's the current fare bucket availability listing for QF3/12OCT: J9 C9 D9 I9 U0 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 G0

How did you find that out and where can I go to see all a breakdown of all individual class types for Qantas?

Basically, J (Business) is wide open

Well that's a good thing for my chances so far, but we're still a while away so we'll see how much it fills up.

option MAY be to buy up to the next Economy fare that would allow for an upgrade

Thanks for the suggestion I didn't know I could do that but I don't think it's worth the time, effort and money.

I'll check out those hotel sites now, in you're experience for off-peak times how much in advance do you recommend to purchase a hotel room for a 1 bedroom suite?
Than again I might just AirBnb it because I know I can find some really unique affordable places on there.

a lesser quality experience once in J on these overnight flights when you want to sleep if possible

Why do you say a lesser quality experience once in J? You mean just becasue it's a A330 and not one of the newer A380's for example?

I know I got a lot of questions but I really appreciate everyone's help, everyone seems to be more than friendly and helpful to a stranger looking for some advice. Good to see.

 

[RichardMEL]

How did you find that out and where can I go to see all a breakdown of all individual class types for Qantas?

No worries. I got this from ExpertFlyer (expertflyer.com) which many here are members of. Very useful for those interested in such things

Well that's a good thing for my chances so far, but we're still a while away so we'll see how much it fills up.

Exactly. Very eary days flight wise. Also remember this reflects what fare buckets QF will sell at on that flight, but doesn't always indicate actual booked load.

Why do you say a lesser quality experience once in J? You mean just becasue it's a A330 and not one of the newer A380's for example?

My apologies. You may notice discussion on AFF regarding upgraded A330's. QF is introducing a new Business Suite product to the A330's both domestic and international - a big improvement on the current product. The A330 is a fine aircraft no issue there, but QF has (now) different product offerings in its J cabin that can result in a vastly different experience (IMHO anyway). Chances are QF3/4 will get the new config by Oct are slim as it likely will be one of the last routes to get the new config due to it being a mostly leisure route.

I know I got a lot of questions but I really appreciate everyone's help, everyone seems to be more than friendly and helpful to a stranger looking for some advice. Good to see.

No worries. That's what we're here for. Keep asking and learning!

 

[drron]

Welcome Alexander.Good to see that you are asking questions.The loyalty world is not as straight forward as many think.
Keep reading here and you are sure to pick up some useful pointers.In particular start off with the Knowledge centre.Just remember we are all different so what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.As well don't get your hopes up too high.Many a disappointment ahead but more than offset by some wonderful experiences.You will not be able to get every award you want.EG we have made a late decision for us to head to Japan at the end of next March.Looked up to see if any J awards.All gone for the dates we wanted-started looking 7 days after they were released.So you definitely need to plan early.
Some airlines though are more likely to release awards closer to the day of flying eg SQ.Just work out what you want from your programs and points.But a friendly warning-it can become addictive.

 

[AlexanderWalker]

Thank you.

No it's awesome I found out about this whole idea through a book I read so I'm glad I was recommended this site.

Everybody keeps recommending all these awards I've purchased one, look forward to it.

 

[RichardMEL]

Thank you.

No it's awesome I found out about this whole idea through a book I read so I'm glad I was recommended this site.

Oh? What book did you read and how did you find your way to AFF?

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

My point with P+P is it lets you earn SC which is important for SC climb.
Don't want to SC climb, fine, go classic award in Y or try for Bid Now. Or be happy flying revY.
Me? I want to try to keep status, or do anything to stay above NB, at the least!

 

[Mattg]

My point with P+P is it lets you earn SC which is important for SC climb.
Don't want to SC climb, fine, go classic award in Y or try for Bid Now. Or be happy flying revY.
Me? I want to try to keep status, or do anything to stay above NB, at the least!

You do realise that if you fly on a business reward ticket, you get access to the business lounge and pretty much all the other benefits that come with SG anyway?

 

[samh004]

A lot has been touched on already, but speaking as someone who used to re-qualify as WP on comfort seat bookings... I'd echo the earlier thoughts that it's nunecessary on an international booking, mainly because I don't think you can extract the value there. Domestic short haul is where it's at

 

[trixydoza]

Let's consider someone who flies from Adelaide to Auckland regularly, something like ADL-MEL-AKL-SYD-ADL.

Scenario (1): Use 72,000 points for return trip Classic.
Cost: AUD210.24 + 72,000 points
Earn: Nothing

Scenario (2): Buy revenue ticket.
Cost: AUD1983 + 0 points
Earn: 12,500 points + 240 SCs

Scenario (3): Use 72,000 points for Points + Pay.
AUD1478 + 72,000 points
Earn: 12,500 points + 240 SCs

So, comparing (3) and (2), you’ve used 72,000 points to save $505.

Comparing this to (1), you’ve effectively foregone the opportunity to do the same trip again for $715, which is a saving of $1268 relative to the revenue fare.

So you've saved $505 so as to not save $1268. Rinse and repeat, and it makes even less sense.

Conclusion: Points + Pay makes sense only if you have an unlimited supply of free points and don't value the flights themselves.

 

[Mattg]

Let's consider someone who flies from Adelaide to Auckland regularly, something like ADL-MEL-AKL-SYD-ADL.

Scenario (1): Use 72,000 points for return trip Classic.Cost: AUD210.24 + 72,000 points
Earn: Nothing

Scenario (2): Buy revenue ticket.
Cost: AUD1983 + 0 points
Earn: 12,500 points + 240 SCs

Scenario (3): Use 72,000 points for Points + Pay.
AUD1478 + 72,000 points
Earn: 12,500 points + 240 SCs

So, comparing (3) and (2), you’ve used 72,000 points to save $505.

Comparing this to (1), you’ve effectively foregone the opportunity to do the same trip again for $715, which is a saving of $1268 relative to the revenue fare.

So you've saved $505 so as to not save $1268. Rinse and repeat, and it makes even less sense.

Conclusion: Points + Pay makes sense only if you have an unlimited supply of free points and don't value the flights themselves.

I would agree with that. Makes sense.

By the way, just as a matter of interest for anyone who is not familiar with AA miles, this is the same trip outlined in the previous example, but paid for with AAdvantage miles:



Less than half the miles and a smaller cash payment compared to what QF is asking for the same flights using the cheapest method!

 

[AlexanderWalker]

Oh? What book did you read and how did you find your way to AFF?

Read a new book called Get Beyond The Grind

Really good book, highly recommend it. But in the 2nd last chapter he was talking about hacks for flying.
However it was American so I could only use some of the tips.

Emailed the author and he referred me to this site.

 

[AlexanderWalker]

My point with P+P is it lets you earn SC which is important for SC climb.
Don't want to SC climb, fine, go classic award in Y or try for Bid Now. Or be happy flying revY.
Me? I want to try to keep status, or do anything to stay above NB, at the least!

That's my main motivation for using points+ pay.

You do realise that if you fly on a business reward ticket, you get access to the business lounge and pretty much all the other benefits that come with SG anyway

But Mattg makes a good point I didn't personally know that.

I still want SG and the superficial side of me strives for that title.

 

[AlexanderWalker]

A lot has been touched on already, but speaking as someone who used to re-qualify as WP on comfort seat bookings... I'd echo the earlier thoughts that it's nunecessary on an international booking, mainly because I don't think you can extract the value there. Domestic short haul is where it's at

Thanks, to clarify your saying Points+ pay on international is more of nuisance and you get more value from doing that on domestic?

 

[AlexanderWalker]

Let's consider someone who flies from Adelaide to Auckland regularly, something like ADL-MEL-AKL-SYD-ADL.

So, comparing (3) and (2), you’ve used 72,000 points to save $505.

Comparing this to (1), you’ve effectively foregone the opportunity to do the same trip again for $715, which is a saving of $1268 relative to the revenue fare.

So you've saved $505 so as to not save $1268. Rinse and repeat, and it makes even less sense.

Conclusion: Points + Pay makes sense only if you have an unlimited supply of free points and don't value the flights themselves.

My god I didn't realise you can save so much on reward tickets!! Reward tickets are the same as classic right? Or not?

Less than half the miles and a smaller cash payment compared to what QF is asking for the same flights using the cheapest method

I didn't even know you could use AA to purchase local Australian flights, only a couple of days and my flying habits have changed significantly!

And its cheaper on AA...I have two questions here. Why doesn't everybody book through AA if it's cheaper and, I learnt that you can only claim points on either AA or Qantas (even though they're affiliated).
I choose to transfer them to Qantas when I was flying domestically in the states, is this a wise decision or should I have kept them on AA?

 

[Mattg]

I didn't even know you could use AA to purchase local Australian flights, only a couple of days and my flying habits have changed significantly!

And its cheaper on AA...I have two questions here. Why doesn't everybody book through AA if it's cheaper and, I learnt that you can only claim points on either AA or Qantas (even though they're affiliated).
I choose to transfer them to Qantas when I was flying domestically in the states, is this a wise decision or should I have kept them on AA?

In a nutshell, most Australians don't use AA miles to purchase Australian flights because (a) they don't know anything about AA miles and (b) it is very difficult to earn AA miles in Australia. You can earn AA miles flying on Qantas but apart from that there aren't many ways. Most credit cards etc. in Australia are geared towards Qantas & Virgin.

(By the way, a fundamental rule is that you can earn miles on any partner airline's flight, so AA miles on QF or vice versa, but you can only credit any given flight to one program - otherwise everyone would be "double-dipping".)

There is one easy way to earn AA miles in Australia though - buying them. AA actually sell their miles for a fixed price and even offer bonus miles from time to time.

The neat thing about AA miles though is that any award within "Oceania" (Australia and NZ) costs the same price - 10K miles in economy, 17.5K in business each way. And they don't pass on the QF fuel surcharge either. So, a business class ticket from Perth to Auckland - or better, Broome to Queenstown via Perth & Sydney - is quite lucrative.

 

[drron]

The AA program Aadvantage does have some advantages(pun intended).Certainly you get better value for your redemptions.For example we can fly business class to NZ for just 17,500 points each way and very little in surcharges.
The problem is that it is much harder to earn points in Australia.You can transfer points from Amex and Diners to AA-best to do it via SPG(Starwood hotels).However it is not as good as it used to be.Until about 18 months ago I could get 2 First class awards from Japan to the USA for 62500 miles + $US2.50 in taxes.Still can do this on partner airlines but not as frequent as AA once were-they now release their premium awards closer to the day of flying.
But you can buy AA miles and they do have "sales" at times with bonus points.Still some good value easy redemptions.When I first joined Aadvantage it was much easier to get status,even life time status,on AA than QF.The reverse is now true.
As I said read the Knowledge centre and keep reading the posts here.an incredible amount of knowledge.I have been a member for nearly 13 years and am still learning new things.