WSI for Western Sydney Airport

[Saab34]

Not sure if SQ would move ops, I can certainly see Scoot moving over, plus AirAsia, JQ Long Haul, Batik.

Rex might have no choice if they have no Mascot slots. Would be a bonus for the crews who live out west way if they base aircraft at WSI also.

 

[justinbrett]

Does anyone know why WSI seems to have Departures on the ground floor and Arrivals on the upper floor? Seems like Arrival passengers will have the best view of the runway.

Without seeing the plans I assume it's only international arrivals on the second floor - domestic arrivals will go into the departure area. Baggage claim etc will be on the ground floor - I hope (that would be very weird if not).

Con for this setup is not having separate drop off / pick up levels, but I guess you can achieve the same effect with a bit more space (SYD T3 is very cramped)

 

[exmc]

Pretty common in newish designs - the arrivals section is mostly corridors so takes up less space, so you can have lots of double height areas at the gates.

Plus you've got to remember it's a combined domestic/ international terminal more akin to Canberra and Adelaide.

Ah now that you mention it, I seem to remember Oslo having something similar with arrival passengers having a separate suspended corridor above Departures. Be interesting to see how the WSI design shapes up.

Con for this setup is not having separate drop off / pick up levels, but I guess you can achieve the same effect with a bit more space (SYD T3 is very cramped)

One can only hope they don't whack a carpark in the middle of a confined area like how they did it at SYD. The whole of SYD just feels cramped across International and Domestic.

 

[AIRwin]

One can only hope they don't whack a carpark in the middle of a confined area like how they did it at SYD. The whole of SYD just feels cramped across International and Domestic.

Good chance for a redesign now that the domestic car park will be demolished...

 

[justinbrett]

One can only hope they don't whack a carpark in the middle of a confined area like how they did it at SYD.

And a bit like MEL.

I guess BNE has single level road access and the traffic flow is OK - it has it's moments but I've never seen it as bad as SYD.

That said, WSI probably won't allow private vehicles anywhere near the terminal - that seems to be the new trend. Pay for parking or go on a very long walk to be picked up/dropped off.

 

[HS-TQE]

We don't know the mix of airlines and destinations there yet. For all we know, it may become Bonza's primary airport for Sydney once they launch their Sydney<>Bali direct flights.

That's assuming Bonza 'gets merged' into REX by then (regardless if PAG Singapore/Kim Lim or 777 partners are the 'acquiring' party) .

Can't see Bonza applying for an international AOC in their current form at the moment.

 

[dajop]

Not sure if SQ would move ops, I can certainly see Scoot moving over, plus AirAsia, JQ Long Haul, Batik.

Rex might have no choice if they have no Mascot slots. Would be a bonus for the crews who live out west way if they base aircraft at WSI also.

I don’t think it’s a matter of moving ops for many carriers. Probably more a matter of supplementing operations at SYD, with extra services (and for international carriers at times that curfew won’t allow at SYD. Probably internationally some LCCs will move if they get a better deal than at SYD.

 

[jpp42]

As much as HSR would be nice, I highly doubt they'd have a terminus at WSI. One of the big touted advantages of HSR is the ability to get into the city centre.

It doesn't need to be a terminus, just a stop. HSR works well in countries that have large spread out populations, as the intermediate stops with major population centres are just as important as the end point. For Sydney, we need to be looking at HSR in the context of Canberra, Wollongong, Newcastle ... Melbourne is simply too far.

Connecting major international airports to HSR is important in Europe, for example, because it allows easy transfer from long-haul flights to outlying destinations, which are way more populous. The ICE route through Frankfurt Airport is a great example as it serves not just the surrounding major cities in Germany but other population centres nearby that can get a one-seat ride to the airport, such as from Switzerland or France. Similarly, CDG airport's TGV station, although not serving quite as many places due to the limitations of the French rail network, allows connectivity to many places - I took a direct Thalys from Amsterdam for example - yes AMS airport exists, but I got an amazing deal out of CDG that wouldn't have made sense without this good connectivity.

If cost were no concern, an ideal HSR route in NSW could run something like Canberra -> WSI -> SYD (for CBD) -> Gosford -> Newcastle. This would anchor the route by the two airports & CBD but connect important outlying population centres. Melbourne is too far away and is better served by air.

 

[wandering_fred]

-> Gosford -> Newcastle.
Did you miss the Newcastle airport on the way intentionally?
Trains sometimes offer more comfortable wandering
Fred

 

[Lynda2475]

HSR works well in countries that have large spread out populations, as the intermediate stops with major population centres are just as important as the end point.

Except for the areas you are proposing there is no obvious corridor to install this high speed rail without acquiring and bulldozing 100s of houses or drilling a tunnel the whole way. Sydney is very built up from CBD to Central coast, and you cant put HSR on same track as the suburban rail or metro without it becoming just a regular express service.

HSR isnt practical on east coast of Australia, for it to work the corridor would have had to be acquired decades ago - we dont even have a standard rail gauge between heavy rail and metro or between states.

 

[jpp42]

-> Gosford -> Newcastle.
Did you miss the Newcastle airport on the way intentionally?
Trains sometimes offer more comfortable wandering

Newcastle Airport (Williamtown) is north of Newcastle, it's not on the way at all... what am I missing?

Williamtown airport is a tiny place (on the commercial side). It doesn't fit in with the strategy I was talking about, which is to offer connectivity from places like Canberra and Newcastle to the major international airports in Sydney. Williamtown could probably close to airline traffic entirely if there was a reasonable high speed rail connection to Sydney.

Except for the areas you are proposing there is no obvious corridor to install this high speed rail without acquiring and bulldozing 100s of houses or drilling a tunnel the whole way. Sydney is very built up from CBD to Central coast, and you cant put HSR on same track as the suburban rail or metro without it becoming just a regular express service.

There have been credible plans put forward, but I agree they are very expensive and yes involve lots of tunnelling. You deleted the part of my post where I said, "if cost were no concern" - I'm aware that it would be prohibitively expensive.

Anyway off track but I just wanted to point out that a HSR rail station at an outlying airport like WSI is not actually a terrible idea in some markets, but I think the primary problem is simply lack of population outside of the Sydney basin to justify it.

 

[moa999]

Good chance for a redesign now that the domestic car park will be demolished...

I can only imagine the only replacement for the SYD P1 carpark is a bigger carpark, and possibly some nicer walkways through it. Suspect they will also utilise the airspace over the Airport station.

If anything SYD T2/T3 is very similar to LAX, PER T1/T2 and the future WSI being a horseshoe style design.

 

[AIRwin]

Williamtown could probably close to airline traffic entirely if there was a reasonable high speed rail connection to Sydney.

Interstate flights?

 

[jpp42]

If anything SYD T2/T3 is very similar to LAX, PER T1/T2 and the future WSI being a horseshoe style design.

Can we lobby for a connection between T2 and T3 on the airside, somewhere along the way? Most of the LAX terminals are connected in some way, despite being disparate airlines etc. This really irritates me how SYD T2/T3 are like within 300 metres but no airside connector. And this isn't just so that I can use the Qantas lounge more easily before Jetstar flights, it will actually help a lot of people...

 

[dajop]

Can we lobby for a connection between T2 and T3 on the airside, somewhere along the way? Most of the LAX terminals are connected in some way, despite being disparate airlines etc. This really irritates me how SYD T2/T3 are like within 300 metres but no airside connector. And this isn't just so that I can use the Qantas lounge more easily before Jetstar flights, it will actually help a lot of people...

300 metres? A 120 m tunnel , lined with airport concessions, should do the trick

 

[justinbrett]

Newcastle Airport (Williamtown) is north of Newcastle, it's not on the way at all... what am I missing?

Williamtown airport is a tiny place (on the commercial side). It doesn't fit in with the strategy I was talking about, which is to offer connectivity from places like Canberra and Newcastle to the major international airports in Sydney. Williamtown could probably close to airline traffic entirely if there was a reasonable high speed rail connection to Sydney.



There have been credible plans put forward, but I agree they are very expensive and yes involve lots of tunnelling. You deleted the part of my post where I said, "if cost were no concern" - I'm aware that it would be prohibitively expensive.

Anyway off track but I just wanted to point out that a HSR rail station at an outlying airport like WSI is not actually a terrible idea in some markets, but I think the primary problem is simply lack of population outside of the Sydney basin to justify it.

Newcastle Airport (Williamtown is the RAAF base that includes the airport) is not all that tiny anymore, they're about to get their first aerobridge that will be able to accommodate widebodies (within 12 months according to the CEO). I think it will end up a mini OOL.

Having lived there for 12 years, don't underestimate a Novocastrians distaste for having to go to Sydney for anything. For time sensitive journeys (to East Coast destinations), there will always be a place for NTL. For international and trans con, then via SYD works. Also, NTL is a JV between Newcastle & Port Stepehens, so there's a lot of residents outside of the LGA of Newcastle that are closer to NTL than the rail line..

I used to prefer to fly out of SYD so I could use the QF Flounge, but then back through BNE so I could get a connecting flight to NTL. Nothing worse after a 15 hour flight to have to get back to NTL on a train or even private vehicle. Thankfully I just moved to the Gold Coast and the choice between OOL and BNE are both viable (still SYD for the Flounge though).

 

[drron]

We lived in Maitland for 18 years and many people had a distaste for having to go to Newcastle. Our secretary by her late 20s who had been born in Maitland had never been to Newcastle.

 

[SYD]

300 metres? A 120 m tunnel , lined with airport concessions, should do the trick

View attachment 319007

This was discussed a few months ago. It’s odd that QF/JQ aren’t pushing to join SYD T2/T3. Plenty of room for additional gates in the process.

Yes, there’s an issue with the old heritage listed terminal (I used to go to the “observation deck” in the ‘80s!) but I’m sure that could be incorporated in a sympathetic way - an aviation museum for starters.

 

[SeatBackForward]

If cost were no concern, an ideal HSR route in NSW could run something like Canberra -> WSI -> SYD (for CBD) -> Gosford -> Newcastle. This would anchor the route by the two airports & CBD but connect important outlying population centres. Melbourne is too far away and is better served by air.

I think Sydney (CBD) to Parramatta then one line north from there to Newcastle, and another south towards WSI then onto Canberra would be a better catchment. Parramatta will be served by Metro to WSI also for those wanting to go North.

 

[justinbrett]

We lived in Maitland for 18 years and many people had a distaste for having to go to Newcastle. Our secretary by her late 20s who had been born in Maitland had never been to Newcastle.

Lucky the airport is in Port Stephens then.

But yes, i have friends in Medowie and Nelson Bay and a trip to Newcastle may as well have been Sydney.

In the time I lived there I only went to Nelson Bay twice, and also Maitland twice - both times for the beer festival at the gaol.