WSI for Western Sydney Airport

[moa999]

Can't see a HSR line that effectively replicates MetroWest which will cost $20+bn over the next ten years.
Plus any further Parramatta build will be very expensive and deep.

If we get a HSR line line I suspect Olympic Park is more likely as possibility, but I still think Central would have a higher ROI.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Can't see a HSR line that effectively replicates MetroWest which will cost $20+bn over the next ten years.
Plus any further Parramatta build will be very expensive and deep.

If we get a HSR line line I suspect Olympic Park is more likely as possibility, but I still think Central would have a higher ROI.

Imagine a future where there are integrated check-In facilities at Sydney Central Station, for SYD, WSI and the high speed rail...

***Dreams of Utopia (The Tv Series)***

 

[Quickstatus]

WSI Concept Plan

There is no requisite "Car Park view" fro that office as far as I can see

HSR is mostly still a pipe dream

Yes, where would it go while remaining "High Speed". The problem with HSR is every politician wants a stop in their electorate. High speed requires long distances to accelerate and decelerate. How long would it stay at top speed if it went say WSI to Olympic park or say Chatswood?

Maitland had never been to Newcastle

Miss QS lives near Greta. She says the same. As she is familiar with Sydney, she thinks that Newcastle is not better than Sydney for anything.

 

[justinbrett]

Miss QS lives near Greta. She says the same. As she is familiar with Sydney, she thinks that Newcastle is not better than Sydney for anything.

That's a strange statement. That's like people in Sale saying Traralgon isn't better than Melbourne for anything.

 

[jpp42]

how the fares will price versus the equivalent routes to SYD or whether they will price them equally?

It would almost certainly be priced lower, that's kind of the whole point. I realise that WSI is closer to a catchment of users who might pay a premium to avoid travelling to SYD, but that gets offset by the inconvenience of fewer choices and lighter schedules at launch time. So they most certainly will have to entice people on price.

 

[docjames]

It would almost certainly be priced lower, that's kind of the whole point. I realise that WSI is closer to a catchment of users who might pay a premium to avoid travelling to SYD, but that gets offset by the inconvenience of fewer choices and lighter schedules at launch time. So they most certainly will have to entice people on price.

Yeah, will be a commercial decision - volume v margin. WIl be interesting to see the quantum (if any) in the price difference.

 

[Saab34]

This airport is designed for growth and will one day become the same scale and size as Dubai and JFK airports,” Mr Hickey said.

Not in my lifetime.

They say these outrageous claims in order get more government handouts.

 

[dajop]

Well i would pay a premium to fly QF SYD-MEL, as I am sure that premium will be far less than an Uber from home-WSI (which is in the middle of nowhere).

SYD-AVV proved to be a dud route because AVV is not close enough to Melbourne CBD.

WSI is not anywhere near Sydney CBD, nor the eastern burbs, inner west, inner south or north shore - who can all get to SYD much much less expensively.

But WSI is not for the eastern inner west, inner south or north shore suburbs. It's an airport for a different region.

We've been through this before, AVV is a poor comparison, AVV's "direct catchment" (people who live closer to it than MEL) is relatively small (part of just 1 LGA within Greater Melbourne, the City of Wyndham, <200K people + Geelong's 250K , and IMHO really should be rebranded as Geelong/Surf Coast Airport. But WSI has a much bigger catchment of I think ~1m. There are a substantial number of people who will find it cheaper and quicker to reach WSI than SYD.

 

[HS-TQE]

WSI may be also suited for the international-based LCC/Value Orientated Carriers e.g AirAsia, Scoot, Batik, Jeju, Jetstar Long Haul and Cebu Pacific. Also both QF and VA may also potentially start Bali flights if the Indonesia bilateral doesn't include WSI as part of SYD.

 

[Lynda2475]

t's an airport for a different region.

Which is why moving business traveller heavy SYD-MEL flights there makes no sense.

Sure move Bali flight and LCCs but the catchment area for WSI dont generally have the disposable income for premium cost carriers.

 

[mbell1510]

You'd think this airport would mostly be for people who live in Western Sydney or are visiting family in that part of the city. Hard to imagine someone coming into Sydney for business or even a weekend away opting for WSI considering you're looking at a 90-minute train ride to the CBD.

Australia seems to be very point to point travel so there would be a limited market you'd think for an airline to turn it into a US-style hub a AA and DFW or UA and SFO.

As for international travel you can see JQ flights to DSP would be very popular.

 

[RooFlyer]

Business travellers whose firms have BFOD policy may find themselves out west.

 

[Lynda2475]

Business travellers whose firms have BFOD policy may find themselves out west.

Not once they factor in the cost of the Taxi/Uber (which could easily come to $200 vs $30 to SYD)

 

[jpp42]

Hard to imagine someone coming into Sydney for business or even a weekend away opting for WSI considering you're looking at a 90-minute train ride to the CBD.

This is a short-sighted view, especially for the weekend away. The experience of dozens of other "outlying" airports worldwide, shows these can compete effectively with the primary airports for travellers from all over the metro area, particularly for low-cost airlines, but also on price at peak times for legacy airlines. Look at the popularity of so-called "RyanAir airports" across Europe - they regularly require 60- to 90- minute bus rides, but if you can get a €39 fare, plenty of people will do it. For WSI, as mentioned above, it will likely attract discount longhaul carriers (including Jetstar) - plenty of people will suffer the drive or bus/train ride to save hundreds like you can do on these carriers. Maybe you personally value your time more, but don't be so elitist to not regonise plenty of people are willing to spend this time for a discount holiday.

 

[Lynda2475]

Noting there is no 24hr public transport to/from WSI apart from taxi or Uber. Sydney trains stop before midnight and start again about 5am. So if a late arrival or super early departure the $100 you saved on the airfare is quickly eroded by the $200 uber to/from the city.

I'm sure it will be popular for those who live on the outskirts of western Sydney, want to fly a LCC but for business travellers and those for whom time in valuable then much less so.

 

[jpp42]

Noting there is no 24hr public transport to/from WSI apart from taxi or Uber. Sydney trains stop before midnight and start again about 5am. So if a late arrival or super early departure the $100 you saved on the airfare is quickly eroded by the $200 uber to/from the city.

The airport doesn't open for three years, you're getting ahead of yourself.

The metro is supposed to open in time for the airport opening, admittedly it will just be a shuttle to St Mary's Station requiring a change to reach either Parramatta or the Harbour City.

If for some reason the Metro isn't ready on time, or for after hours times, there will almost certainly be copious shuttle buses offered, and likely private operators might run shuttles from somewhere like Central Station bus terminal (like Skybus runs to Avalon from Southern Cross, even despite the relatively low patronage there). These shuttles are available at pretty much all outlying airports worldwide and there's no reason to think WSI would not attract such a service - and these *are* used by business travellers where required, due to the distance involved where taxis are impractical.

 

[serfty]

[moderator hat]

Please use the below thread for Qantas or Jetstar specific Discussion​

[/moderator hat]

Qantas & Jetstar revealed as first airlines to fly from WSI

News in the last hour is that Qantas and Jetstar revealed as first airlines to fly from western Sydney airport (WSI) https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/qantas-and-jetstar-revealed-as-first-airlines-to-fly-from-western-sydney-airport/news-story/b72c910670791750059562cf80b420c3 Qantas...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[Lynda2475]

FYI Woolworths HQ is in the middle of nowhere - used to have take taxi there from city office and was always over $110 and that was 15 years ago - i dread to think of the cost now. They have quite a bit of trouble getting staff because of where it is (and terrible culture - they treat their HQ staff woefully)

Post automatically merged: Jun 8, 2023

These shuttles are available at pretty much all outlying airports worldwide and there's no reason to think WSI would not attract such a service - and these *are* used by business travellers where required, due to the distance involved where taxis are impractical.

Interestingly post covid these shuttle services have disappeared in many US cities. No more SuperShuttle in LAX or JFK.

 

[jpp42]

Interestingly post covid these shuttle services have disappeared in many US cities. No more SuperShuttle in LAX or JFK.

Supershuttle was a door-to-door service, where you shared a shuttle going to your same part of town and they dropped each person at their destination. I was referring to the buses that go to a central city point, typically a main train station. LA's Flyaway bus* is certainly alive and well with this service operating to LA Union Station as well as Van Nuys, although I think there were additional destinations before. For New York, I do see that the longtime "NYC Airporter" service at JFK and LGA didn't restart after Covid, however I see there is a "Go Airlink NYC" that seems to be trying to fill their shoes (and also offers shared-ride door-to-door service just like Supershuttle did).

The point is that I'm sure there will be sufficient options at WSI, the airport and the state government has made it clear there must be.

* Flyaway is subsidized by the city of Los Angeles I think

 

[Lynda2475]

The point is that I'm sure there will be sufficient options at WSI, the airport and the state government has made it clear there must be.

In usual transport business hours Ither will be trains but given no trains anywhere on the Sydney rail network are 24*7 there has not to my knowledge been any guarantee made of providing 24*7 trains to/from WSI.

SYD doesn't have any of the busses of which you speak, there is the train (which is not 24*7, and doesn't start early enough for for early morning international departures). There are local busses which stop nearby but make heaps of stops are they wind through the burbs, not a quick connection to Central or city.

The old Airport Express busses from CBD to SYD were canned when the rail line opened - you can bet the new metro from St Mary's to WSI has a similar kind of exclusivity arrangement.

I can see WSI being LCC central but premium traffic remaining at SYD.